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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 17 2009, 09:39 PM   #16
Qonos
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Re: Time Police/STXI solved!

Deks wrote: View Post
Jeri wrote: View Post
No, it can't. The word "alternate" presumes another exists.
Not really. It depends on the interpretation.
In this particular situation it can be argued that Uhura said 'alternate' merely to confirm the fact that their futures are now different.
Therefore, it can easily still mean that the Trek prime universe (at least as far as canon is concerned) is no more.

What was also established by Spock is that whatever their future lives may have been, history was altered beginning with the destruction of Kelvin and culminating in the sequence of events they were experiencing then with Nero in the past.

Both Nero and old Spock can easily exist in the past even with the prime universe being completely changed ... passing through the singularity could have protected them both from changes in the time stream just as the Enterprise-E was protected from the changes in FC ... otherwise, the ship would have been obliterated from existence anyway (if the protection was only a temporary one from within the anomaly) since the Sphere was already attacking Montana before the Sovvie exited the time stream and inflicted casualties.

So to sum it up, there is a good possibility that the new sequence of events is actually happening within the prime universe we all knew.
In our reality, the previous Trek made shows and movies won't simply disappear ... but as far as on-screen is concerned, the prime-timeline from this movie's era and forth has been changed drastically.
You can not have an alternate with out a primary.

WORDS HAVE MEANINGS.

  • go back and forth; swing back and forth between two states or conditions
  • exchange people temporarily to fulfill certain jobs and functions
  • alternate(a): every second one of a series; "the cleaning lady comes on alternate Wednesdays"; "jam every other day"- the White Queen
  • understudy: be an understudy or alternate for a role
  • serving or used in place of another; "an alternative plan"
  • interchange: reverse (a direction, attitude, or course of action)
  • alternate(a): occurring by turns; first one and then the other; "alternating feelings of love and hate"
  • do something in turns; "We take turns on the night shift"
  • surrogate: someone who takes the place of another person
  • of leaves and branches etc; first on one side and then on the other in two ranks along an axis; not paired; "stems with alternate leaves"
    [COLOR=#008000]wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn[/COLOR]

All of these assume that there is something to be alternated with, never replaced on a permenant basis.
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Old June 17 2009, 09:39 PM   #17
digger
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Re: Time Police/STXI solved!

Jeri wrote: View Post
digger, there's no discrepancy between the movie and Seven. The intention of the episode was to describe conspiracy theories, which they did. Uhura and Spock plainly said what they were meant to, too.
I would first like to state that I do agree with you that this is, in fact, an alternate relaity. The part that I disagree with is that I don't think, by what is on-screen, all viewers MUST think it's an alternate reality.

Granted, it's the conclusion I've drawn from the information at hand, but, in my opinion, no where on screen is there any definitive proof. The only mention of "alternate reality" on screen is during a discussion about a possible explanation of what is going on. This isn't a fact that the characters extrapolate from proof and test. It is only a theory, mentioned during a single conversation, as a possible reason.

As a result, it's not absolute. I would agree that there's every reason to believe that after the "Nero incident," perhaps the Federation's greatest minds got together and did prove it. But it's equally as likely that they got together and disproved it. It's left up to the viewer's interpretation.
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Old June 17 2009, 11:15 PM   #18
Jack Bauer
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Re: Time Police/STXI solved!

I think the time police only care about their own timeline. If someone screws with the past and creates an alternate timeline the time police don't give a rat's ass. They only care if someone travels to the past and mucks up the "real" (IOW, their own) timeline.
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Old June 17 2009, 11:19 PM   #19
RobertScorpio
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Re: Time Police/STXI solved!

Jack Bauer wrote: View Post
I think the time police only care about their own timeline. If someone screws with the past and creates an alternate timeline the time police don't give a rat's ass. They only care if someone travels to the past and mucks up the "real" (IOW, their own) timeline.
Hmmm...interesting. So if their past was changed, they wouldn't know, because they couldn't know. Is that what you're saying? Or, are you saying they are just one of many timelines, and they are protecting it, which would mean that all time lines have their own time cops..

Here is the question though...will be interesting to see what you think...does Q have a counterpart in Yesterday's Enterprise? Meaning, does Q exist outside it all? Or are there mulitple Qs as well, who guard the time line as well...

Rob
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Old June 17 2009, 11:35 PM   #20
think
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Re: Time Police/STXI solved!

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
A common complaint with Star Trek from longtime fans is “where are the time police?” - those people from Voyager and Enterprise whose job it was to make sure nobody messed up the timeline.

Here’s my answer:

Crewman Daniels from the 31st century time police (seen in Enterprise) didn’t stop Nero’s mission because Daniels and his time police are from the post-Star Trek XI timeline! Go back and check – he never made a single mention of specific TNG, DS9 or VOY characters or events. From Daniels’ perspective, Nero’s incursion into the past is part of the normal chain of events.

The reason that Captain Braxton’s 29th century time police (seen in Voyager) didn’t get involved is because they were erased from the timeline by Nero’s actions. Ever wonder why the 29th century guys never got involved in the 22nd century time war but the 31st century guys did? It’s because from Daniels’ 31st century perspective (and that of the entire temporal cold war) they never existed. They’re from the same timeline as Voyager (and TNG and DS9), which ceased to exist (at least in its current form) when Nero blew up the Kelvin and later imploded Vulcan.

Problems with this theory: The 29th century Timeship Relativity is said to be “protected from changed in the timeline” presumably by similar shielding to what Voyager came up with in VOY: ‘Year of Hell’. Maybe their shields were down at the time? Or they weren’t powerful enough to survive such a big change? Maybe the ship survived but the crew didn’t, which is why 31st century Daniels’ wears that stupid looking Time Suit.

Also I’m assuming one timeline, contrary to Bob Orci’s many worlds theory. The film itself leaves it up to the viewer (alternate as well as or alternate instead of?)

dude:
:during the mind meld there is a scene of Tovok where he was helping Spock with the red matter as a Vulcan scientist but I am probably wrong...
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