RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 137,864
Posts: 5,328,841
Members: 24,556
Currently online: 544
Newest member: ndjamena

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Inquisition
By: Michelle on Jul 12

Cubify Star Trek 3DMe Mini Figurines
By: T'Bonz on Jul 11

Latest Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Jul 10

Seven of Nine Bobble Head
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

Pegg The Prankster
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

More Trek Stars Join Unbelievable!!!!!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

Star Trek #35 Preview
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

New ThinkGeek Trek Apparel
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Star Trek Movie Prop Auction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Drexler: NX Engineering Room Construction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 17 2009, 08:44 PM   #1831
teya
Vice Admiral
 
teya's Avatar
 
Location: 2 mi S of Capt Braxton's shopping cart
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

^ Or the dampener--being part of her cortical node--could have come with Icheb's, since she didn't have her original any more.
__________________
Akoochimoya, my indigenous ass.
teya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2009, 08:45 PM   #1832
kimc
Coffee Mod
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

teya wrote: View Post
^ Or the dampener--being part of her cortical node--could have come with Icheb's, since she didn't have her original any more.
Perhaps but you would think Icheb's love for Seven and his willingness to perhaps sacrifice his life for hers would have activated it.
__________________
I'm certainly less inclined to bash Voyager now, it is not nearly as bad a show as many people make it out to be. - TheGodBen

Avatar by B'Elanna.
kimc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2009, 08:48 PM   #1833
teya
Vice Admiral
 
teya's Avatar
 
Location: 2 mi S of Capt Braxton's shopping cart
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

kimc wrote: View Post
teya wrote: View Post
^ Or the dampener--being part of her cortical node--could have come with Icheb's, since she didn't have her original any more.
Perhaps but you would think Icheb's love for Seven and his willingness to perhaps sacrifice his life for hers would have activated it.
I'm afraid I don't understand you...

Icheb gave Seven a cortical node--which had to have a dampener, since it caused her problems later.

Yet, you accept that Icheb loved. You don't accept that Seven did.

I'm confused.
__________________
Akoochimoya, my indigenous ass.
teya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2009, 09:27 PM   #1834
kimc
Coffee Mod
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

teya wrote: View Post
kimc wrote: View Post
teya wrote: View Post
^ Or the dampener--being part of her cortical node--could have come with Icheb's, since she didn't have her original any more.
Perhaps but you would think Icheb's love for Seven and his willingness to perhaps sacrifice his life for hers would have activated it.
I'm afraid I don't understand you...

Icheb gave Seven a cortical node--which had to have a dampener, since it caused her problems later.

Yet, you accept that Icheb loved. You don't accept that Seven did.

I'm confused.
My point was that IF Icheb had the dampener it would have kicked in when Seven was dying. To me the fact that it didn't means she probably had the dampener the entire time - not him.
__________________
I'm certainly less inclined to bash Voyager now, it is not nearly as bad a show as many people make it out to be. - TheGodBen

Avatar by B'Elanna.
kimc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2009, 09:56 PM   #1835
teya
Vice Admiral
 
teya's Avatar
 
Location: 2 mi S of Capt Braxton's shopping cart
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

kimc wrote: View Post
teya wrote: View Post
kimc wrote: View Post

Perhaps but you would think Icheb's love for Seven and his willingness to perhaps sacrifice his life for hers would have activated it.
I'm afraid I don't understand you...

Icheb gave Seven a cortical node--which had to have a dampener, since it caused her problems later.

Yet, you accept that Icheb loved. You don't accept that Seven did.

I'm confused.
My point was that IF Icheb had the dampener it would have kicked in when Seven was dying. To me the fact that it didn't means she probably had the dampener the entire time - not him.
The dampener was part of the cortical node--the Doc said that the technology was built into it.

Seven's original cortical node was removed and replaced with Icheb's.
__________________
Akoochimoya, my indigenous ass.
teya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2009, 10:03 PM   #1836
kimc
Coffee Mod
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

^ Well unfortunately the site I normally rely on to check stuff like that is having some issues so if you have the dialogue then let's have it.
__________________
I'm certainly less inclined to bash Voyager now, it is not nearly as bad a show as many people make it out to be. - TheGodBen

Avatar by B'Elanna.
kimc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2009, 10:07 PM   #1837
teya
Vice Admiral
 
teya's Avatar
 
Location: 2 mi S of Capt Braxton's shopping cart
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

kimc wrote: View Post
^ Well unfortunately the site I normally rely on to check stuff like that is having some issues so if you have the dialogue then let's have it.
From Human Error:

EMH: Is it that obvious? I've completed my diagnostic. What you experienced was no malfunction. Your cortical node was designed to shut down your higher brain functions when you achieve a certain level of emotional stimulation.
SEVEN: Clarify.
EMH; It appears to be a fail-safe mechanism to deactivate drones who start to regain their emotions. Knowing the Borg, it makes perfect sense. Finding one's heart is the surest road to individuality.
SEVEN: I'm no longer linked to the hive mind.
EMH: The technology's built into your node. It simply remained dormant, until now.
The Doc quite clearly states that the tech is built into the node. And since the node that Seven has came from Icheb...
__________________
Akoochimoya, my indigenous ass.
teya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2009, 10:09 PM   #1838
kimc
Coffee Mod
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

teya wrote: View Post
kimc wrote: View Post
^ Well unfortunately the site I normally rely on to check stuff like that is having some issues so if you have the dialogue then let's have it.
From Human Error:

EMH: Is it that obvious? I've completed my diagnostic. What you experienced was no malfunction. Your cortical node was designed to shut down your higher brain functions when you achieve a certain level of emotional stimulation.
SEVEN: Clarify.
EMH; It appears to be a fail-safe mechanism to deactivate drones who start to regain their emotions. Knowing the Borg, it makes perfect sense. Finding one's heart is the surest road to individuality.
SEVEN: I'm no longer linked to the hive mind.
EMH: The technology's built into your node. It simply remained dormant, until now.
The Doc quite clearly states that the tech is built into the node. And since the node that Seven has came from Icheb...
Okay then! Now here's what doesn't make sense. How can someone be freed from the collective, supposedly start to feel emotions, have those new emotions dampened then not notice what the heck was going on?
__________________
I'm certainly less inclined to bash Voyager now, it is not nearly as bad a show as many people make it out to be. - TheGodBen

Avatar by B'Elanna.
kimc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2009, 10:19 PM   #1839
teya
Vice Admiral
 
teya's Avatar
 
Location: 2 mi S of Capt Braxton's shopping cart
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

kimc wrote: View Post
teya wrote: View Post
kimc wrote: View Post
^ Well unfortunately the site I normally rely on to check stuff like that is having some issues so if you have the dialogue then let's have it.
From Human Error:

EMH: Is it that obvious? I've completed my diagnostic. What you experienced was no malfunction. Your cortical node was designed to shut down your higher brain functions when you achieve a certain level of emotional stimulation.
SEVEN: Clarify.
EMH; It appears to be a fail-safe mechanism to deactivate drones who start to regain their emotions. Knowing the Borg, it makes perfect sense. Finding one's heart is the surest road to individuality.
SEVEN: I'm no longer linked to the hive mind.
EMH: The technology's built into your node. It simply remained dormant, until now.
The Doc quite clearly states that the tech is built into the node. And since the node that Seven has came from Icheb...
Okay then! Now here's what doesn't make sense. How can someone be freed from the collective, supposedly start to feel emotions, have those new emotions dampened then not notice what the heck was going on?
Because the writers chose to do whatever they wanted when they needed a plot point.

I know you defend Voyager's consistency, but this is season 7, remember? And IMO, Voyager wasn't all that consistent *before* season 7.
__________________
Akoochimoya, my indigenous ass.
teya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2009, 10:23 PM   #1840
kimc
Coffee Mod
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

teya wrote: View Post
I know you defend Voyager's consistency, but this is season 7, remember? And IMO, Voyager wasn't all that consistent *before* season 7.
Well compared to Season 7 I would have to say it was!
__________________
I'm certainly less inclined to bash Voyager now, it is not nearly as bad a show as many people make it out to be. - TheGodBen

Avatar by B'Elanna.
kimc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2009, 10:41 PM   #1841
teya
Vice Admiral
 
teya's Avatar
 
Location: 2 mi S of Capt Braxton's shopping cart
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

kimc wrote: View Post
teya wrote: View Post
I know you defend Voyager's consistency, but this is season 7, remember? And IMO, Voyager wasn't all that consistent *before* season 7.
Well compared to Season 7 I would have to say it was!
True.
__________________
Akoochimoya, my indigenous ass.
teya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2009, 10:46 PM   #1842
TheGodBen
Rear Admiral
 
TheGodBen's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

So rather than Trek XI it led to a discussion about Seven's emotions and whether she should feel guilty about being part of the collective. At least it was about Voyager this time.


Nothing Human (*½)

JANEWAY: Maybe we can do better than giving you a crash course in exobiology. Maybe we can provide you with a consultant.
SHMULLY: I'd be delighted, but how?
JANEWAY: By isolating the computer's exobiology datafiles and merging them into a an interactive matrix.
PARIS: A hologram!
JANEWAY: Exactly.
SHMULLY: That may not be as simple as it sounds. It would need to be nearly as sophisticated as I am; tactile interfaces, personality subroutines.
PARIS: Harry could do it.
JANEWAY: Search the database for a leading exobiologist, if you want to add a personality it may as well be based on a real person. I'll have Harry meet you in Holodeck two.
Please tell me that I'm not the only person who noticed that Janeway decided to create a new lifeform on a whim and none of the characters give it a second thought. This is incredibly reckless stuff right here, it's like making a clone and harvesting its organs and then throwing it aside once you're done with it. Either holograms like Shmully are people or they're not and for the last four years it has been shoved down my throat that they are.

SEVEN: You seem uncomfortable taking orders from me.
TABOR: It's just that I'm used to taking orders from B'Elanna, that's all. And to tell you the truth, she doesn't...
SEVEN: ...doesn't like me, yes, I am aware of that. However, the Captain left me in charge [of Engineering] during Lieutenant Torres' absence.
Meanwhile Lt Carey and Ensign Vorik have been assigned to astrometrics because Janeway decided to play musical chairs with the department heads. Samantha Wildman was put in charge of security for the day while Ayala was made first officer and told to wear a dress. Janeway really loves fucking with the minds of the recurring characters.

MOSET: I just wish we had access to my laboratory, it has all the instrumentation we would need. Well, we'll just have to improvise.
SHMULLY: Not necessarily. We may be able to create a reasonable facsimile of your laboratory in our Holodeck, providing of course, you can give an accurate description.
MOSET: Down to the smallest detail, it's more of a home to me than my home.
Moset is a hologram being run by the computer. His recollection is based off of data in the computer database. They don't need him to program it into the computer because it's already in the godsdamn thing!

TABOR: You don't have the right to violate the memory of my family! As long as that Cardassian hologram is online that's exactly what you're doing.
CHAKOTAY: It's not that simple.
TABOR: It is to me. Crell Moset killed thousands of people in his hospitals, as long as we're willing to benefit from his research we're no better than he is.
Oh, I get it now! Tabor is deeply upset about the fact that Moset experimented on members of his family. I didn't get that at all from the last two scenes he was in, I really needed this third one where he repeats himself so that slow people like me can catch up. This is a very considerate script for the mentally challenged.

I liked what this episode was trying to be about, but this is the second time that Jeri Taylor has written an episode where the message at the end does not fit with the message of the rest of the episode. (The first being season 2's Alliances.) Everyone who wanted to destroy the Moset hologram was reacting from an emotional position while Doc Shmully was desperately trying to get everyone to be rational. He wins them around in the end, only to change his mind in the final minutes and react as irrationally as everyone else was. There's some good scenes and it gets points for trying, but ultimately the episode is a boring mess that doesn't know what it is trying to say.
__________________
...so many different suns...

Last edited by TheGodBen; June 17 2009 at 11:47 PM.
TheGodBen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2009, 10:50 PM   #1843
kimc
Coffee Mod
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
So rather than Trek XI it led to a discussion about Seven's emotions and whether she should feel guilty about being part of the collective. At least it was about Voyager this time.
We aim to please!
__________________
I'm certainly less inclined to bash Voyager now, it is not nearly as bad a show as many people make it out to be. - TheGodBen

Avatar by B'Elanna.
kimc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2009, 11:02 PM   #1844
teya
Vice Admiral
 
teya's Avatar
 
Location: 2 mi S of Capt Braxton's shopping cart
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
TABOR: You don't have the right to violate the memory of my family! As long as that Cardassian hologram is online that's exactly what you're doing.
CHAKOTAY: It's not that simple.
TABOR: It is to me. Crell Moset killed thousands of people in his hospitals, as long as we're willing to benefit from his research we're no better than he is.
Oh, I get it now! Tabor is deeply upset about the fact that Moset experimented on members of his family. I didn't get that at all from the last two scenes he was in, I really needed this third one where he repeats himself so that slow people like me can catch up. This is a very considerate script for the mentally challenged.

I liked what this episode was trying to be about, but this is the second time that Jeri Taylor has written an episode where the message at the end does not fit with the message of the rest of the episode. (The first being season 2's Alliances.) Everyone who wanted to destroy the Moset hologram was reacting from an emotional position while Doc Shmully was desperately trying to get everyone to be rational. He wins them around in the end, only to change his mind in the final minutes and react as irrationally as everyone else was. There's some good scenes and it gets points for trying, but ultimately the episode is a boring mess that doesn't know what it is trying to say.

The really silly thing about this episode is that they rely on Seven's technology all the time.

Was Moset worse than the Borg?

Consistency was not Voyager's strong suit.
__________________
Akoochimoya, my indigenous ass.
teya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2009, 11:04 PM   #1845
startrekwatcher
Rear Admiral
 
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Nothing Human gets 2 stars out of 4 from me--yet another disappointing Jeri Taylor script.

This was an example of a potentially interesting dilemma presented in an extremely dull manner and as a result it lost me from the beginning. Paris/Torres never did much for me until portions of the last season so that drama in this episode failed to evoke anything from me. I simply didn't care. I was also tired with the hologram themes by this stage in the series so right there the writers lost my interest. The drama with the Maquis Bajoran didn't resonate. I'd also grown tired of B'elanna's moody shit. The alien was unique if nothing more than a plot device-hey at least it was something.

Taylor should have looked at TNG's "Ethics" on how to create a medical dilemma show with a nice character-centered anchor. "Nothing Human" is the antithesis of everything that made that show so great.
startrekwatcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:48 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.