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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old June 16 2009, 06:29 PM   #91
ManaByte
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

EnsignRicky wrote: View Post
Personally, I think this whole re-ing thing is getting out of hand.

I'm not making plans, I'm re-imagining.

I'm not going to the gym, I'm re-mastering.

I'm not shooting myself in the head, I'm re-booting

Maybe it's time to re-evaluate.
The reason why they are remastering is for high definition broadcasts, downloads, and BluRay releases.

If you don't understand why, check out the Babylon 5 DVDs. The effects there were rendered for 480p displays, while the non-effects shots look fine as they were filmed in a forward-looking format where they can easily be upconverted to HD. The result is everytime an effects shot is used (which is A LOT in B5), the video quality is highly pixelated. And that's just on standard resolution DVD; a HD release would look much worse.

With TOS they went in and remastered the effects and video to preserve image quality when viewed on 1080p displays. Blowing up the original effects to HD would result in a grainly blur.

As for DS9 being remastered; it will never happen. TOS is only three seasons and sellls very well, TNG sells even better so it's financially viable for them to remaster the series. On the other hand, DS9 and VOY only sold to the core niche group of fans and there simply is not the audience there to justify a costly remastering of the series in HD.
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Old June 16 2009, 08:30 PM   #92
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

Terminology point of order: All "remaster" means is to make a new master tape/disc/file/etc from which subsequent copies can be made for wider distribution. That's ALL. A "remastering" can involve no changes at all - it can just mean to rescan a film reel (and in some low-end remasterings, that is indeed all it means). Casting up stuff like Lucas and his constant reediting of the Star Wars movies is a separate issue.

On a "proper" DS9 remastering - i.e., one taken with the aim of improving the picture quality... as has been said, it's highly unlikely to happen in the way of TOS-R because of the cost: unlike TOS-R, where they had full and final edits on film, they would need to redo all the post-production work from scratch (including all optical effects, such as phaser blasts - although, contrary to popular belief, only the CGI visual effects would need to be completely redone. They could recomposite any model shots where they still have all the elements, with only stuff like phasers/photons/etc actually needing to be redone from scratch).

So it's a moot point, really. They aren't even likely to do a TNG-R before the day they can't sell the SD version at all.
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Old June 16 2009, 09:12 PM   #93
ManaByte
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

Well, they're apparently already "planning" TNG for the show's 25th anniversary. There have apparently been tests done to see how feasable it would be.
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Old June 17 2009, 02:45 AM   #94
SoM
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

ManaByte wrote: View Post
Well, they're apparently already "planning" TNG for the show's 25th anniversary. There have apparently been tests done to see how feasable it would be.
Weren't they just upscaling/overlaying tests, rather than the full (expensive) back-to-film-elements it would need to do it properly?
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Old June 17 2009, 03:08 AM   #95
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

If anyone thinks that CBS/Paramount is NOT planning to remaster TNG for HD, then I'm sorry but you're out of your fracking minds! TNG is and was the most popular of all the Treks (in terms of ratings). There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that it'll get remastered. Otherwise they'd be sitting on a property that's deteriorating under their noses. How many more TNG DVDs can they reasonably expect to sell? For the most part, anyone who wants it, already has it. To sell more, they have to do an HD release. And to do that, they need to remaster it. Therefore, they WILL remaster it. I suspect DS9 and VOY will eventually get done, but it's nowhere near certain. I guess it really depends on TNG and how much it costs them to go back to the film originals and reedit all the scenes and redo all the effects. If TNG proves too expensive, they may just scrap DS9 until later, when it becomes more cost-effective to do so. That said, I'm certain they have all the film elements filed away by episode somewhere in the Paramount vault.
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Old June 17 2009, 04:46 AM   #96
Bad Atom
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

People are too damn spoiled these days. Let's stop upgrading anything and everything to make it more palatable to today's whiny modern audiences and spend that time making something new instead. Otherwise, where does it end?

(goes back to his DS9 DVD marathon where the picture looks just fine)
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Old June 17 2009, 05:59 AM   #97
Anthony Sabre
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

Remaster all of Trek I say! All of it! ROOOOOOOOOAAAAAAARRRRR!!!!

(I've been drinking MD 20/20)
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Old June 17 2009, 08:00 AM   #98
Oso Blanco
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

NCC-1701 wrote: View Post
I can't speak for Oso Blanco, but personally I won't lose sleep over never being able to see Deep Space Nine in high definition. I'm happy with my DVDs. As for future means of releasing the show, I'm not really convinced that the only way to get the series to Blu-ray is by updating the effects. I'm all for remastering the picture and sound quality. But don't mess with the effects.
I absolutely agree. I won't be watching TOS with new effects and I won't be watching DS9 with new effects. If that means that I'll never see it in high definition, then that's the way it is.
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Old June 17 2009, 08:05 AM   #99
Oso Blanco
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

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Remastering has nothing to do with adding anything. It's about preserving what's there before it's gone for good.
I tempted to say that everytime someone demands to "remaster" something while they just mean new special effects. But have given up on wasting my breath about it .
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Old June 17 2009, 04:29 PM   #100
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
NCC-1701 wrote: View Post
I can't speak for Oso Blanco, but personally I won't lose sleep over never being able to see Deep Space Nine in high definition. I'm happy with my DVDs. As for future means of releasing the show, I'm not really convinced that the only way to get the series to Blu-ray is by updating the effects. I'm all for remastering the picture and sound quality. But don't mess with the effects.
I absolutely agree. I won't be watching TOS with new effects and I won't be watching DS9 with new effects. If that means that I'll never see it in high definition, then that's the way it is.
So, are you saying that better special effects would ruin it for you? It takes all sorts I suppose...
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Old June 17 2009, 11:53 PM   #101
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

How faithful the new effects are versus the old ones is really up to the producers. They could copy each shot exactly using CGI, and reproduce the mistakes as well, but I don't find that particularly satisfying, know that they could very well have gone and changed it and make it make sense in-universe. Defiant having the wrong registry is just plain lazy. It's because they had to use stock footage, so I forgave it, but to do it again? When they're redoing all the shots anyway? Seems criminal to me.

It's somewhat ironic that it's the "fans" who are most against updating the effects, whereas the general public either wouldn't notice or wouldn't care.

Since the effects have to be redone anyway, the marginal cost of some new shots (i.e. as opposed to stock footage) would be negligible versus the cost of the whole project.
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Old June 18 2009, 07:58 AM   #102
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

I have to agree, DS9's special effects and over all look still hold up incredibly well after all this time. I would say if they could change something, its try to eliminate all the stock footage. I know some don't mind but when I see footage from Star Trek 6 in DS9, it kind of throws me a little and there are other examples. I'm just saying it would be nice to maybe re-create original footage to replace the stock shots.
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Old June 18 2009, 08:28 AM   #103
Oso Blanco
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

Butters wrote: View Post
So, are you saying that better special effects would ruin it for you? It takes all sorts I suppose...
Yes, it would ruin it for me. When I'm watching a movie or a tv show, I want to see the original effects. Each movie/show is a product of its time, and it should be appreciated as such. I also won't be watching Casablanca in colour or any other attempt at "improving" old movies.

While were at it, we could also improve some of those dull old paintings with new and bright neon colours, to make it more accessible for the young audience. Bring me the Mona Lisa, now!
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Old June 18 2009, 12:29 PM   #104
Butters
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
Butters wrote: View Post
So, are you saying that better special effects would ruin it for you? It takes all sorts I suppose...
Yes, it would ruin it for me. When I'm watching a movie or a tv show, I want to see the original effects. Each movie/show is a product of its time, and it should be appreciated as such. I also won't be watching Casablanca in colour or any other attempt at "improving" old movies.

While were at it, we could also improve some of those dull old paintings with new and bright neon colours, to make it more accessible for the young audience. Bring me the Mona Lisa, now!
Well when they bang on your door demanding you hand over your DS9 materials for alteration just pretend you're not in.

I won't be watching Casablanca in colour or black and white. Its not in my field of interest. You're welcome to your own opinion of course but you can't pretend its a rational one, not without attacking the opposing view as childish ("...accessible for the young audience...") Its not about age and accessibility, its about relevance and watchability. DS9 and the rest will be competing for airtime with with more aesthetically pleasing and culturally relevant products in a higher quality medium, if that audience is of diminishing size and not buying the advertised products, don't expect the series to have much longevity.

You consider DS9 a peice of art, to be appreciated in its original intended form. That analogy only goes so far. I prefer to see it as a product of its time in the same way as a microwave ready meal from 1991. In 1991, transfats, MSG and high sodium were acceptable, today's market however is more discerning.


As for the Mona Lisa, I prefer the nude one.
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Old June 18 2009, 12:58 PM   #105
jefferiestubes8
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remastering vs. changes

Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
everytime someone demands to "remaster" something while they just mean new special effects.
Agreed. Remastering a film is not the same as "Lucasizing" it (ala ST Ep.IV-VI circa 1997).
Paramount/CBS home video really surprised me by doing the TOS-R.
As fans why it would be expected that all Trek TV shows get HD remastering is surprising. DS9 and VOY were mastered to state-of-the-art stndard definition digital videotape. Whenever that tape is played there is no loss of picture, resolution, color, sharpness from the day it was mastered.
TPTB will make a business decision on remastering TNG, DS9, VOY to HD. If it will not make a good R.O.I. it will not be done.
Luckily ENTERPRISE is in HD and will get a Blu-ray release in a few years.
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