RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,584
Posts: 5,403,471
Members: 24,865
Currently online: 567
Newest member: Zqeight

TrekToday headlines

October-November 2014 Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

Cho Selfie TV Alert
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

TPTB To Shatner: Shhh!
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

Mystery Mini Vinyl Figure Display Box
By: T'Bonz on Sep 29

The Red Shirt Diaries Episode Five
By: T'Bonz on Sep 29

Shatner In Trek 3? Well Maybe
By: T'Bonz on Sep 28

Retro Review: Shadows and Symbols
By: Michelle on Sep 27

Meyer: Revitalizing Star Trek
By: T'Bonz on Sep 26

Trek Costumes To Be Auctioned
By: T'Bonz on Sep 25

Hulu Snaps up Abrams-Produced Drama
By: T'Bonz on Sep 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 16 2009, 08:07 PM   #1786
Seven of Five
Commodore
 
Seven of Five's Avatar
 
Location: Staffordshire, UK
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I don't think of it as an alternate reality for the reasons you give, GodBen - I just see it as a plain reboot, with homages to Trek thrown in. I mean it's just semantics at the end of the day, and whatever any of us say, it's all made up.

I agree though - Nero's actions affect the Prime universe, which then changes the timeline if it were being consistent with past Trek, creating the new timeline that Star Trek XI takes place in. But since the look of starships, uniforms and people was so different *before* Nero did anything, I think we were seeing an alternate timeline with *no* link to the Prime timeline.

Just semantics, I know. I still really enjoyed the film though.

But that's STXI. I love 'Timeless,' and is about the only good Harry Kim episode too, which earns it 20 stars?

I think I picked a funny time to start posting in the thread anyway. Talking about a good VOY episode, and Trek XI. It's been really good reading this thread as it's grown - I grew up with VOY and DS9, and it always bothered by how much more I enjoyed DS9. I always thought some aspects of VOY could have been thought out better, and really looked unfavourably on the series for years, until I finally did my own rewatch a few months ago.

I think if you go into VOY with an open mind, taking everything including troubled production history into context, there is a fair amount of entertainment to be had, and some opinions change. Such as my opinion of Naomi Wildman, who I liked more after the rewatch. Neelix too! Though only 'his' episodes where he received a lot of focus and was treated with a bit of respect.
__________________
Other prisons do Shakespeare and shit. I want to play a role, like Desdemona or Ophelia or Clair Huxtable.
Seven of Five is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2009, 09:38 PM   #1787
Tomalak
Vice Admiral
 
Tomalak's Avatar
 
Location: Liverpool
View Tomalak's Twitter Profile
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
It should have been a reboot that way the prime universe would have continued to exist separately
I think it does.

Tomalak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2009, 09:58 PM   #1788
gimpy117
Commander
 
gimpy117's Avatar
 
Location: In your base, sappin' your turrets
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

voyager has the special place in my heart as the trek I grew up with...so no matter how bad...I can't hate it
gimpy117 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2009, 12:33 AM   #1789
TheGodBen
Rear Admiral
 
TheGodBen's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I know that the Prime universe still exists because of the time travel stuff, but the problem is that JJ wanted to give Trek his own vision and because they decided to go the AU route the Prime universe has been infected with some things from the JJverse which I find stupid. For example, the engineering hull of Federation vessels look like a steel-mill and the viewscreens are replaced by windscreens. Thanks to Trek XI we now have to reconcile that at some point Starfleet went from making ships with viewscreens, then it made them with windscreens and then it went back to viewscreens again.

JJ wanted his own Trek universe to play in and that's fine, but the AU aspect of the story means that the Prime universe is made seem even more stupid than it already was.

But since the look of starships, uniforms and people was so different *before* Nero did anything, I think we were seeing an alternate timeline with *no* link to the Prime timeline.
That's what I like to think too, but some people prefer to think that they're the same. The canon issue was already muddy enough, this just makes things more complicated.

Anyway, I really didn't mean for the discussion of Timeless to go off on this tangent about Trek XI. Lets make it more fun this time, we should have our discussion of Infinite Regress spin off into an argument about Mac vs PC!


Infinite Regress (**½)

An episode where Seven tries to initiate mating rituals with B'Elanna? How could this episode not have five stars?!

Because I found it a bit dull. There's a technobabble Borg device that makes Seven go crazy and think she's other people, and seeing Jeri Ryan playing other characters is fun at times. Unfortunately it is not enough to hold the plot together, and most of the plot it fairly standard stuff involving technobabble and angry aliens.

There's a good opportunity here to explore Seven's realisation that she assisted in the assimilation of thousands of individuals into the collective, now that she is an individual she must face up to that horror. I'm sure the episode will explore this issue with the depth and complexity it deserv-... wait no, she's a Ferengi again. Man, those guys are funny!

The end of the episode involves a bunch of technobabble and some aliens attack the ship because they're naturally grumpy. For some reason Tuvok goes inside Seven's mind which is apparently a Borg nightclub, and like so many great men of history he struggles to make his way through the crowd in order to talk to the hot blond chick. Why? I don't know, the technobabble solution seemed to work without it.
__________________
...so many different suns...
TheGodBen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2009, 12:42 AM   #1790
SJSharksfan39
Admiral
 
SJSharksfan39's Avatar
 
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
View SJSharksfan39's Twitter Profile
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Timeless

I just go with what Obrien said in Visionary, "I hate Temperal Mechanics." As for the episode itself, it's my favorite episode of the season and the best Kim episode, right up there with The Chute.

Infinite Regress

Jeri was great with the multiple personality disorder thing. Not the best episode of the season, but I enjoyed it still. I guess it's that Masks side of me coming out.
SJSharksfan39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2009, 12:53 AM   #1791
Praetor
Vice Admiral
 
Praetor's Avatar
 
Location: The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I like Seven's multiple-personality performance in "Infinite Regress," but that's about all about it that stands out in my mind. Average, I'd say.
__________________
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." - Q
Praetor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2009, 02:25 AM   #1792
startrekwatcher
Rear Admiral
 
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Infinite Regress gets 3 stars out of four from me.

It is a decent, not great episode. I liked that we got a bit more into the technological side of how the Borg Hive Mind is formed with the introduction of the vinculum and then later on in "Unimatrix Zero II" with the central plexus but I doubt the Borg would bother to retain the entirety of the neural patterns of every assimilated person--they would strip the pattern and only assimilate the relevant memories.

Jeri Ryan did a good job with displaying multiple personalities so the early portions of the episode work better. I wasn't that crazy about the aliens or the routine battle scenes. Still it was a step up from "Extreme Risk" or "Once Upon a Time" and the next episode "Nothing Human".
startrekwatcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2009, 03:29 AM   #1793
DGCatAniSiri
Captain
 
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Praetor wrote: View Post
I like Seven's multiple-personality performance in "Infinite Regress," but that's about all about it that stands out in my mind. Average, I'd say.
Agreed - if she hadn't already, Jeri Ryan really proved she was far more than 'that Borg babe' with her performances of various different people the Borg assimilated. Other than that though, there's nothing really speaking to this episode.

While I'm talking about the episode, by the way, I think the 'reflection is someone else' gag REALLY did not work. I mean, really. I get that it's letting the audience know that something is up with Seven... but starting the episode off with her raiding the Mess Hall for food is enough. It's basically saying that someone doesn't think much of the audience's intelligence.
DGCatAniSiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2009, 04:13 AM   #1794
The Grim Ghost
Fleet Captain
 
The Grim Ghost's Avatar
 
Location: Thee Olde Spook Shack
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I find all references to Seven somehow dealing with the guilt of assimilating people to be incredibly obnoxious.

She was taken by the Borg as a young child due to her parents incredible foolishness...then she is turned into a drone/slave with no free will.

How exactly does that make her guilty of anything? She had absolutely no choice in the matter.
__________________
Life looks better in black and white.
The Grim Ghost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2009, 04:55 AM   #1795
Tachyon
Fleet Captain
 
Tachyon's Avatar
 
Location: Finland
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

gimpy117 wrote: View Post
voyager has the special place in my heart as the trek I grew up with...so no matter how bad...I can't hate it

Aww. That's adorable. I didn't grow up with Voyager, but it still has the special place in my heart. No matter how flawed, it is still best Trek for me by miles.
__________________
Avatar by Belanna.
Tachyon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2009, 06:18 AM   #1796
DGCatAniSiri
Captain
 
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

destro wrote: View Post
I find all references to Seven somehow dealing with the guilt of assimilating people to be incredibly obnoxious.

She was taken by the Borg as a young child due to her parents incredible foolishness...then she is turned into a drone/slave with no free will.

How exactly does that make her guilty of anything? She had absolutely no choice in the matter.
Haven't you ever felt guilty for something that was not your responsibility? It's very human to feel guilt over actions you've taken, even if you weren't in control at the time - how many people do things while drunk that they regret when they sober up?
DGCatAniSiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2009, 06:25 AM   #1797
Tachyon
Fleet Captain
 
Tachyon's Avatar
 
Location: Finland
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

^Good point right there.
__________________
Avatar by Belanna.
Tachyon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2009, 06:37 AM   #1798
NumberSix
Lieutenant
 
NumberSix's Avatar
 
Location: wonderland or neverland, whether i'm with alice or peter
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

^ Although I agree with DGCatAniSiri's point about feeling guilty for something that wasn't your responsibility... I don't agree with the example. I believe people "let their guard down" when they're drunk, but they're not completely stripped of their free will.

Regardless, I think in Seven's case, you'd still feel at least vicariously responsible for murdering/assimilating thousands (millions?) of innocent people even if you weren't in total control of yourself at the time. You were still there, apart of it, and others are going to hold you accountable.
__________________
Luke Skywalker: "You don't believe in the Force, do you?"
Han Solo: "Oh, you mean that thing you just found out about, like, 3 hours ago and are now judging me for not believing in it?"
Blue Harvest
NumberSix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2009, 06:56 AM   #1799
DGCatAniSiri
Captain
 
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

NumberSix wrote: View Post
^ Although I agree with DGCatAniSiri's point about feeling guilty for something that wasn't your responsibility... I don't agree with the example. I believe people "let their guard down" when they're drunk, but they're not completely stripped of their free will.

Regardless, I think in Seven's case, you'd still feel at least vicariously responsible for murdering/assimilating thousands (millions?) of innocent people even if you weren't in total control of yourself at the time. You were still there, apart of it, and others are going to hold you accountable.
Oh, that one was just the first example I could think of that related even partially - I was close to relating an incident from one of my high school plays, but opted not to because of the backstory. During a five minute break, a group of guys were messing around and one got hurt (I don't know what they were doing, but it either involved him falling or slamming into a wall). After practice, all the guys were kept after and our teacher tore into all of us. I hadn't even known anything happened until that point and I felt guilty for what had happened.

Back on topic, Picard felt guilt for the fact that he was used by the Borg to kill or assimilate all those people at Wolf 359, so it makes sense that Seven would have some guilt herself for her part - she personally assimilated a number of people.
DGCatAniSiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2009, 07:45 AM   #1800
Hyperspace05
Commodore
 
Hyperspace05's Avatar
 
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I was perusing this interesting thread, when I read this rather stunning statement which I have to respond to:

Seven Of Five wrote: View Post
...But since the look of starships, uniforms and people was so different *before* Nero did anything, I think we were seeing an alternate timeline with *no* link to the Prime timeline. ...
#1: Please state how the Kelvin era stuff contradicts with ANY established canon episode or film that portrays that era. Please. I beg you. Find ONE scene to back up that statement.
(Hint#1 - there is none, Hint#2 - you personal imagination of how that era was does not constitute canon)

#2. More importantly - Star Trek is not real. It is not a "historical document". It is fiction, produced with the budget and technology available. If stuff looks better than it did on TOS... Be happy that it does. And if it contradicts... Star Trek canon is full of contradictions already. Nothing new.
Hyperspace05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:40 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.