DS9 should get Remastered

[Cyke101]

Captain Fine wrote:

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I think it was mentioned in one of the other threads that we won't be able to see any MORE scenes. Just redone scenes. They're already scored, so we can't add or subtract anything. Just replace what's there. Lots of stock footage in WYLB to replace.

...when I said Sacrifice of the Angels, I meant What You Leave Behind...

(yeah, that's the ticket!)

[Oso Blanco]

Leave DS9 alone, it's fine just as it is!

[M]

Oso Blanco wrote:

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Leave DS9 alone, it's fine just as it is!

Yup, I absolutely agree.

Oh, and I have said so over a year ago in this very thread.

[Captain Fine]

NCC-1701 wrote:

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Yup, I absolutely agree.

Oh, and I have said so over a year ago in this very thread.

You guys would rather never see DS9 in HD?

[M]

Captain Fine wrote:

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You guys would rather never see DS9 in HD?

I can't speak for Oso Blanco, but personally I won't lose sleep over never being able to see Deep Space Nine in high definition. I'm happy with my DVDs. As for future means of releasing the show, I'm not really convinced that the only way to get the series to Blu-ray is by updating the effects. I'm all for remastering the picture and sound quality. But don't mess with the effects.

[Sheep]

Captain Fine wrote:

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You guys would rather never see DS9 in HD?

Unless it experiences a huge increase in popularity (which isn't out of the question, just highly unlikely) to justify an HD release, no one's ever going to see DS9 in HD.

[Marie1]

I wouldn't want to see DS9's effects remastered the way TOS was- the change in what it looks like when ships fire and go to warp.

But the quality of DS9 is going downhill. As mentioned, it was made on videotape- and they don't make things like they used to. The quality of aired episodes is going down fast, at least the episodes aired lately- terrible.

I'd be all for them digitizing it, and cleaning it up. And since most people have flat screens, maybe tweaking it a little, as mentioned, maybe replacing a bit of stock footage for something different.

As long as they only made it a bit clearer, and didn't go nuts like with TOS, I'd be all for them doing a touch of remastering. It's tolerable to watch now, but it won't be forever. There's a lot of artifacts lately on the episodes I've seen, so they're going to have to do something, especially with the better TVs out now.

And I can't imagine buying DS9 on DVD at the prices asked for that quality...
I mean, why for something that's TV quality?

[The Grim Ghost]

No. I don't even think doing it with TOS was a great idea, but I can at least understand it.

TNG/DS9/VOY effects still hold up quite well for the most part.

Anyway, enough with the remake/remastering mania going on. How about some new ideas instead of all of the remakes?

And on remastering, I wonder how many more years it will be before people start "remastering" things like Michelangelo's David or the Mona Lisa? I can almost see a group of Hollywood execs huddled together..." You know that thing could use a larger penis...and the Mona Lisa isn't very hot by today's standards, let's re-do it with Angelina Jolie and scrap the old one"

I'm not putting Trek in the category of great works of art or anything, but I think people's stories and craftsmanship should be respected, not changed to meet modern ideals. That is what NEW things are for.

[Mr. Laser Beam]

NCC-1701 wrote:

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As for future means of releasing the show, I'm not really convinced that the only way to get the series to Blu-ray is by updating the effects. I'm all for remastering the picture and sound quality. But don't mess with the effects.

They have no choice. The effects were created on videotape, which means that they can never be shown in HD (since the max resolution of videotape is so low). It's unavoidable. To show DS9 episodes natively in HD would REQUIRE that all effects be redone from scratch. It's the same with TNG and Voyager.

[DGCatAniSiri]

I could accept the remastering with new scenes in TOS - 60s budget wasn't exactly something that lent itself to a sci-fi series, and part of the reason my TOS tapes never saw as much use as the recorded TNG, DS9, and VOY ones I'd made was because by modern standards, they looked strange - 'evasive manuevers' involving the ship moving lazily to the right and stuff like that, and the phaser effects seemed silly looking. If I watched them now, I might actually consider it nostalgic, but I think the remastered has a better look, even if there's a clear difference in quality between the stuff on the viewer and the stuff on the bridge.

However, I think that the movies and the later-era Trek (re: TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT) should be left alone, because they look perfectly fine. Okay, the odd touch-up so the phasers aren't firing from the photon torpedeo tubes or something wouldn't be unappreciated, but for the most part, leave it alone. Nowadays, there's such a reliance on CGI, it's nice to go back and see the good old fashioned physical models. There's something I feel is more real about the Enterprise-D and DS9 because they were so rarely rendered in a CGI model. I miss that in modern shows. Sure, updating the effects to look 'more real' will make everything shinier, but there's something about them that feels less real to me. Maybe it's little more than the difference between replicated and physically prepare food or something like that, but I want my physical models and older effects left alone.

[The Grim Ghost]

Babaganoosh wrote:

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They have no choice. The effects were created on videotape, which means that they can never be shown in HD (since the max resolution of videotape is so low). It's unavoidable. To show DS9 episodes natively in HD would REQUIRE that all effects be redone from scratch. It's the same with TNG and Voyager.

Then maybe HD isn't all it's cracked up to be. If it can't even handle/adapt to showing older shows the way they were originally made I call that a flawed technology that shouldn't have been released until it could cope with it. The problem isn't with the original shows, it is with the new tech.

[Kestrel]

vedek loki wrote:

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Why? How does such a thing relate to the quality of the story or characters? Goofs happen on TV shows and movies. I don't like the notion that George Lucas has put in people's heads that it's OK to tamper with art/entertainment in this way. Should we fix the slightly crooked smile on the Mona Lisa, too?

My DS9 DVDs are just fine. My only complaints have been the flimsy packaging, and the lack of a "Play All Episodes" button on each disc. Having to go through two levels of menus just to start an episode, and to have to climb back out and then back in for the next episode, was a goofy idea.

But I don't need 'improved' CGI or any gaffes fixed, thanks. They don't detract from my viewing pleasure one bit.

And that's fine - nobody is trying to take your DS9 DVDs away from you. But for those folks who would appreciate fixing of errors or goofs, like the Defiant's registry number, what's the harm? They may not detract from your viewing pleasure, but they might somebody else's.

I for one was very dissapointed by all the stock footage used in WYLB. I mean, I understand why it was done, but I'd love if we could have some some "remastered" battle scenes for the Series Finale. Since the effects have to be redone anyway, why not show us different angles and perspecitives. Maybe toss in some shots of Romulans kicking ass instead of just Dying Real Good. Or Peregrines duking it out with Hidekis along the hulls of Jem'Hadar battlecruisers and Galaxies a la B5 Starfury/Minbari Figther duels. See if we can get some Akira, Norway, or Steamrunner appearances. Nothing that changes the story or characters, of course.

Captain Fine, they couldn't put Akiras at 359, because Akiras were developed afterwards as part of Starfleets new generation of ships.

[Hober Mallow]

destro wrote:

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Then maybe HD isn't all it's cracked up to be. If it can't even handle/adapt to showing older shows the way they were originally made I call that a flawed technology that shouldn't have been released until it could cope with it. The problem isn't with the original shows, it is with the new tech.

There's a flaw in your logic. The way older shows looked on your TV back in the day isn't what the filmed footage actually looks like. Pick up a blu-ray copy of TOS remastered; that's close to what the film actually looked like. The problem was the flawed technology back in the day didn't allow you to see that. That's like you watching a color movie on a black and white television and thinking that's what it's supposed to look like. It's isn't.

The original TNG, DS9, and VOY film has always been as detailed and crystal clear as TOS remastered. You just were never allowed to see most of the detail that's already there.

Those of us who wanted TOS remastered, and those of us who'd like to see other shows remastered are talking about preserving that film.

[Hober Mallow]

destro wrote:

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And on remastering, I wonder how many more years it will be before people start "remastering" things like Michelangelo's David or the Mona Lisa? I can almost see a group of Hollywood execs huddled together..." You know that thing could use a larger penis...and the Mona Lisa isn't very hot by today's standards, let's re-do it with Angelina Jolie and scrap the old one"

I'm not putting Trek in the category of great works of art or anything, but I think people's stories and craftsmanship should be respected, not changed to meet modern ideals. That is what NEW things are for.

Remastering has nothing to do with adding anything. It's about preserving what's there before it's gone for good. You know, the exact opposite of what you just said.

You think allowing the original DS9 film to deteriorate so that no one will ever see the detail that's there is "respcting" DS9? Let's go back to your Mona Lisa example. You're arguing against preserving the original film because the bad copy -- the show you've watched all these years -- is what you know. Using your own logic, it's like saying, "Well, we don't need the original painting -- the low-res picture of the Mona Lisa I downloaded off wikipedia is good enough."

Those of us arguing for remastering are looking to preserve the original DS9 painting.

Yes, the FX would have to be redone. You can blame the TNG/DS9/VOY producers for that.

A big part of the problem is that most people in this thread haven't the slightest clue what "remastering" means. "Remastering" has nothing whatsoever to do with adding new special FX. You and I can watch TOS remastered on blu-ray with the original FX. It's just unfortunate that in the case of TNG/DS9/VOY, adding new FX is unavoidable. That doesn't mean we should just let the original richly detailed film go off into oblivion. I can't fathom how that would be respecting the filmakers art by any stretch of the imagination.

[tomalak301]

Anyone see that South Park episode where the kids complain about remakes and remastered stuff to the point where at the end it became really ridiculous, (I think the episode was called Free Hat) and it was a jab at both George Lucas and Spielberg. That's pretty much how I feel about this whole remastering thing, even with the original. With HD, people have become spoiled like crazy hoping that things get "remastered" and "redone." You do that and how much of the show will be retained. Keep the shows like they were, in the era they were in. It's almost like people's attitudes these days is "well, technology was crap back then so I blame everyone who worked on the show for it" and it's asinine.