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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old June 10 2009, 04:09 AM   #31
CaptainStoner
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Re: I like Tasha Yar.

[QUOTE=DGCatAniSiri;3064198]
I have always had a soft spot for the characters who get killed off because the writers 'can't work with their character' - I always think something along the lines of 'give ME a crack at them, I could do something!' Tasha especially, since she's a fascinating character - all the other main cast are these people who have lived the good life in the heart of the Federation, while she grew up on a colony that 'failed' (don't quite understand that - if the colony failed, how exactly are there still people there?)
What I don't understand is, how one expects a new series with 8 main characters to devote that much time to Tasha Yar. It's not at all as if she was ignored. It's a big cast, and the actor left too soon. The writers were working with the character, and it was her decision to leave.
Now, was it her decision to get killed off? Sure would have been easier to have her transfer! Might have made a much better episode than "Skin of Evil", and as a bonus: no Sela.
Sadly, Tasha's character was a victim of two things - the writers trying to put a female in a position that traditionally was a 'man's' role while also trying to make it seem a casual 'yeah, happens all the time, and, the bigger problem of the two, the 'our characters DON'T' clause that Gene put in for TNG. Her existence on Turkana IV would have been filled with occasions were she engaged in activities that Gene had dictated that our character would not do, and as such, it made it hard to do anything with her, because she wouldn't have been allowed to draw on her prior experiences, given that as a character, they were things that she should have done, but as a Gene Roddenberry character, she wasn't allowed to do.
That just doesn't make a lot of internal sense. Gene wrote Tasha with the dark background, and it does color her character.

I know Star Trek wouldn't be around without him, but I firmly feel that by the time of TNG's production, Gene had bought into his own hype and let himself believe that all it took to overcome these inherent human traits he deemed as being 'negative' was the power of positive thinking - if TNG Gene had worked on TOS, we wouldn't have had the Spock-Bones banter, because the characters were 'too evolved' for such arguments. All the TNG characters suffered because of the 'our characters DON'T' rule, but none so much as Tasha - if that hadn't been a rule, I would not be surprised if Denise Crosby would have wanted to remain with the show.
Space. The Final Frontier. But not the movie, "The Final Frontier". Just the space part. These are the voyages of the U.S.S. McCoy-Spock Banter, her ongoing mission: to argue our way around strange, new, but also cliche, worlds. Too seek out new foreheads, and new canon violations. To boldly go no further than September 2, 1969!
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Old June 10 2009, 04:44 AM   #32
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Re: I like Tasha Yar.

Space. The Final Frontier. But not the movie, "The Final Frontier". Just the space part. These are the voyages of the U.S.S. McCoy-Spock Banter, her ongoing mission: to argue our way around strange, new, but also cliche, worlds. Too seek out new foreheads, and new canon violations. To boldly go no further than September 2, 1969!
LMAO!!

Anyway, funny because I too like the Tasha Yar character for various reasons:

1. I think Denise Crosby was pretty hot, at least back then.

2. She had come from a troubled past.

3. She could take care of herself in a fight, and was a tough girl WITHOUT being a smug, bitchy man hater (It seems to me that nowadays "tough chicks" are portrayed as being men haters who kick men in the balls any chance they get).

Sadly the character did not continue, for whatever reasons. The Sela thing just didn't make any sense at all.
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Old June 10 2009, 10:50 AM   #33
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Re: I like Tasha Yar.

Tasha is alright.
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Old June 10 2009, 11:48 AM   #34
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Re: I like Tasha Yar.

It was her background that I found interesting, it gave a nice contrast to the glorious of what the Federation was supposed to be. But I never felt all that convinced of it on screen, and I'm not sure whether it was because of the dialogue the writers gave her or Denise Crosby's portrayal of the character. Have to say that in the first couple of seasons there were a lot more cringeworthy moments besides Tasha. Could well be that if she had been allowed to carry on to the final seasons the character would have gotten a better place. But one can't dismiss the impact her dimise had on other characters like Data and Picard.
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Old June 10 2009, 01:13 PM   #35
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Re: I like Tasha Yar.

Praetor wrote: View Post
I think what GR missed out on was that it wasn't that viewers who bought into the optimistic Trek future wanted perfect humans, they wanted to relate to "better" humans who fought and successfully overcame their lesser natures on the show, not somewhere in the past or off-screen. Kirk wasn't perfect - he didn't always have confidence he was doing the right thing or have the answer right off, but he would find it.

Having Tasha have to fight to overcome her upbringing (or lack thereof) sometimes would have been better.
Yeah. If nothing else, it would give the rest of the crew someone permanent to talk down to, instead of hiring expensive guest stars.

Maybe Roddenberry did turn them all into weenies, but there was still interpersonal conflict at least as late as his TMP novelization. Also several references to Kirk's boner.
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Old June 11 2009, 03:42 AM   #36
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Re: I like Tasha Yar.

I have a thought about that...
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Old June 11 2009, 04:40 AM   #37
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Re: I like Tasha Yar.

Praetor wrote: View Post
I have a thought about that...
So do I, but they're drowned out by my brain's screams of "WHY GOD WHY!?!?"


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Old June 11 2009, 10:35 PM   #38
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Re: I like Tasha Yar.

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Praetor wrote: View Post
I have a thought about that...
So do I, but they're drowned out by my brain's screams of "WHY GOD WHY!?!?"


J.


Did you ever notice that the older Roddenberry got, the more perfect and "evolved" he insisted his characters be?
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Old June 11 2009, 10:37 PM   #39
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Re: I like Tasha Yar.

Praetor wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
Praetor wrote: View Post
I have a thought about that...
So do I, but they're drowned out by my brain's screams of "WHY GOD WHY!?!?"


J.


Did you ever notice that the older Roddenberry got, the more perfect and "evolved" he insisted his characters be?
I noticed. I love TNG, but the first few seasons he lays it on so thick that the self satisfaction just about chokes you to death!

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Old June 11 2009, 11:10 PM   #40
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Re: I like Tasha Yar.

I'll stop being OT after I say this: I have a theory that the older GR got, the more regrets he had, and the more he wanted and perhaps indeed needed to feel that humanity could be perfect, because he saw himself as being so imperfect.
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Old June 11 2009, 11:15 PM   #41
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Re: I like Tasha Yar.

Praetor wrote: View Post
I'll stop being OT after I say this: I have a theory that the older GR got, the more regrets he had, and the more he wanted and perhaps indeed needed to feel that humanity could be perfect, because he saw himself as being so imperfect.
You're fine. It is my thread, you know.
Also, I agree. That sounds like Gene toward the end.

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Old June 11 2009, 11:18 PM   #42
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Re: I like Tasha Yar.

In all, it became a shame we got no vaccine, and no Lieutenant Yar.
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Old June 12 2009, 12:32 AM   #43
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Re: I like Tasha Yar.

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In all, it became a shame we got no vaccine, and no Lieutenant Yar.
I tend to think that the one major Tasha-focus episode being 'Code of Honor' had to play a role in why she wanted out. Everyone was embarassed with that one...
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Old June 12 2009, 01:12 AM   #44
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Re: I like Tasha Yar.

I liked the character Tasha, I thought she had a very interesting backstory, and I like what she might have brought to the show. But I have to agree that Denise Crosby was not the strongest actress out there. I guess I didn't see her enough to say definitely "She was bad," but I think it is fair to say that she had some decent opportunities, and she nonetheless didn't shine, for what reason, I don't know. Yeah, "Code of Honor" was a horrible episode, but it was made worse by her acting, which just made me cringe. And she made me cringe in "The Naked Now," too, and even a little bit in "Encounter at Farpoint."

I honestly cannot remember a single episode in which Yar was featured where she did what I would consider a thoroughly good job, except maybe "Yesterday's Enterprise." But even there - and I saw this episode just a week or so ago - well...she did OK. She did a competent job. But why is OK and competent the best she could do even in a well-written episode?

Now, she might have gotten better. I mean, several of them did - Marina Siritis, for one, who started out perfectly wretched, thanks to perfectly wretched writing and a fondness (hers or the director's - who can say which?) for overacting emotional moments, and what did they give poor Deanna in the beginning but emotional moments? So I would have been glad for Yar to stay if Crosby got better, or was allowed to get better, whichever the problem was. But if she wasn't going to get better...well, I think we made out great with the cast we ended up with.

And I also agree with those who said that if she was going to leave, having her die in the line of duty was a very powerful thing to do. And just what I would have expected from Tasha, actually.
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Old June 12 2009, 02:14 AM   #45
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Re: I like Tasha Yar.

Well said, JustKate.

I think all of the cast seemed a bit flat in seasons one and two, personally, and maybe a part of their perceived improvement was, as you suggest experience. I'd like to think that Crosby would have gotten better. (I think she did okay in "Pet Semetary" - but like you say, "just okay.")

And, also, there are definitely worse ways to go. I don't think her death was "meaningless." "Senseless"? Perhaps. "Random"? Definitely. But "Yesterday's Enterprise" mischaracterized it, IMO. I think they could have done a job presenting a better reason for Yar to sacrifice herself there without demeaning her original death.
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