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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

View Poll Results: Chakotay / Seven pairing gets:
Thumbs up! 21 17.80%
Thumbs down! 97 82.20%
Voters: 118. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 11 2009, 10:26 PM   #16
Lynx
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

I see no chemistry at all between Chakotay and Seven and I still don't understand why the writers did come up with that in the last possible hour of a seven year long show. Was it a final attempt to give the finger at the strongest and most ardent fanbase among the Voyager fans, the J/C-ers?

As in another case in which fans were annoyed and hurt, they did have two options:

1. Pair off Janeway and Chakotay at the end which would have been highly appreciated by a large group of fans.

2. Leaving the whole thing to the imagination of the fans.

As in that other case, they did create and choose option 3 which insulted and annoyed the most loyal group of fans the show had (no I'm not one of the ardent J/C-ers but I do sympathize with their cause).

I can't help wondering if those in charge were so frustrated with everything about Voyager in season 6 that they deliberately took it out on certain groups of fans by creating scenarios which they knew would upset those people.
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Old June 11 2009, 10:34 PM   #17
JustKate
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

^ I am confident you are being completely paranoid, Lynx. "Deliberately took it out on certain groups of fans"? Please. They were careless, not vengeful.
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Old June 11 2009, 10:52 PM   #18
Mach5
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

JustKate wrote: View Post
^ I am confident you are being completely paranoid, Lynx. "Deliberately took it out on certain groups of fans"? Please. They were careless, not vengeful.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't automatically mean they're not after you...

BTW, check out Braga's track record:

All Good Things (TNG) - Riker/Troi shippers get ass-kicked by Worf
Endgame (TNG)(little earlier, actually) - JanewaY/Chakotay shippers get middle-fingered by Seven of Nine (and Harry/Seven shippers, if these even existed, got violated by The Chief himself).
These Are The Voyages (ENT) - Trip/T'Pol shippers get ass-raped by Trip & T'Pol themselves (and the Grim Reaper, eventually).

Coincidence? ()
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Last edited by Mach5; June 11 2009 at 11:05 PM. Reason: Added a smiley before someone mistook me for a nut... Aww, who am I kidding anyway :D
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Old June 11 2009, 10:55 PM   #19
JustKate
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

Oh, for goodness' sake.
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Old June 11 2009, 11:02 PM   #20
Mach5
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

JustKate wrote: View Post
Oh, for goodness' sake.
Okay, I didn't put any emoticons in my post, but I didn't exactly write it with a straight face either

But Braga's shippercide tendencies are interesting none the less (He killed Neelix/Kess too, for crying out loud ).
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Old June 11 2009, 11:12 PM   #21
JustKate
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

Mach5 wrote:
Okay, I didn't put any emoticons in my post, but I didn't exactly write it with a straight face either

But Braga's shippercide tendencies are interesting none the less (He killed Neelix/Kess too, for crying out loud ).
You got me, Mach - I had no idea you were kidding or at least half-kidding. ::whew::

Honestly, I think all episodic TV is at times guilty of shippercide (I do admire your term here). The writers or TPTB or somebody wants new stuff all the time, and they seem to think that watching two people grow in a relationship would be boring for fans (those that aren't fans of that particular 'ship, anyway).

And you know, a lot of times, they're right. But not always. I do think they might sometimes give us some credit for a little bit of maturity now and then.

That said, my reaction to the end of the Kes/Neelix relationship was "Thank goodness." Yeah. Not a fan of that one at allllllll.

Edit: Oh, and I was not a fan of J/C either - not while they're in the DQ (afterwards might have been nice, depending on how it was done). When it comes to romantic relationships for the captain or the first officer with members of the crew, I am quite the hardliner. Really.
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Old June 11 2009, 11:13 PM   #22
teya
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

Although it's clearly not something to be advertised here, I happened to like C/7 and have written a few fanfics.

Surprisingly enough, they are intelligently written and I've gotten some wonderful reviews.

http://www.fanfiction.net/u/154772/Teya
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Old June 11 2009, 11:18 PM   #23
JustKate
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

At least a few people have agreed with you, Teya. And of course if you write anything it would be "intelligently written." I'm being sincere here.
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Old June 11 2009, 11:22 PM   #24
Mach5
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

JustKate wrote: View Post
Honestly, I think all episodic TV is at times guilty of shippercide (I do admire your term here).
Thank you very much.

JustKate wrote: View Post
That said, my reaction to the end of the Kes/Neelix relationship was "Thank goodness." Yeah. Not a fan of that one at allllllll.
Personally, I hated Neelix with a passion, and hated his pedophilia even more.

JustKate wrote: View Post
Edit: Oh, and I was not a fan of J/C either - not while they're in the DQ (afterwards might have been nice, depending on how it was done). When it comes to romantic relationships for the captain or the first officer with members of the crew, I am quite the hardliner. Really.
We're on a same boat here. For a captain, subordinates are off-limits. Such is the order of things.
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Old June 11 2009, 11:23 PM   #25
teya
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

JustKate wrote: View Post
At least a few people have agreed with you, Teya. And of course if you write anything it would be "intelligently written." I'm being sincere here.
Well, thanks.

I completely agree that the relationship wasn't handled well on screen, but then Trek has never been particularly good when it comes to relationships.
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Old June 11 2009, 11:27 PM   #26
es!
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

C/7 works for me in Teya's fic only. It was handled awfully on screen. Although "Human Error" is one of my favorite episodes.
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Old June 11 2009, 11:30 PM   #27
JustKate
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

Mach5 wrote: View Post
We're on a same boat here. For a captain, subordinates are off-limits. Such is the order of things.
Yay! I know (from "The Great J/C Thread," which you will find farther down in this forum), that lots of people here disagree with us on this, but not everybody.

teya wrote: View Post
JustKate wrote: View Post
At least a few people have agreed with you, Teya. And of course if you write anything it would be "intelligently written." I'm being sincere here.
Well, thanks.
You're welcome!

teya wrote: View Post
I completely agree that the relationship wasn't handled well on screen, but then Trek has never been particularly good when it comes to relationships.
Exactly. I mentioned in my first post in this thread that it might have been OK if it had been handled better. But yeah...not something Trek has been good at. Up until now. So...we'll see, eh?
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Old June 11 2009, 11:31 PM   #28
teya
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

Responding to es!

Well, thanks.

Now that I think about it, very often I like 'ships that inspire me creatively. There doesn't have to be a lot there, just a spark.

And I'm absolutely rigid on one thing--if it's a sci-fi 'ship, there's got to be something sci-fi about it, else what's the point? Interspecies relationships, a human and a former Borg, couples from different times...
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Old June 11 2009, 11:44 PM   #29
Zameaze
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

exodus wrote: View Post
Mach5 wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
Chakotay & Seven are like Demi Moore & Ashton Kutcher.
You know they're together but you're not exactly sure why.
Meh, Demi fell for Ashton because he's young and gorgeous, and Ashton fell for Demi probably because she was his pubertal fantasy.

But why would Seven fall for a guy with a probable secret crush on his captan, who likely had a latent girlcrush on her?
Rank.

As a Borg, Seven was made to respect a chain of authority.
Chakotay is First Officer, thus the Alpha Male on Voyager.
His rank to Seven would give him appeal.

Mach 5, Ashton is young and gorgeous? I was thinking more like doofy & talentless. Demi has the money, being an actress/producer. He just riding her coat tails. Can you say: Male J-Lo?
Alpha male behavior doesn’t explain the sum total of human male conduct. We are complicated beasts, and the dark cave of our mind still harkens back to the primeval.

Much of our behavior is rooted at a level of development that’s below the cognitive and is motivated by inherent drives that come from a nonlinguistic, ancient part of our brain. Our conscious minds try to come up with convincing reasons for us to explain our behavior to ourselves, and think that they are dealing with facts while, in reality, they are being led a merry chase. We may have abandoned chimpanzee ways, but most men must admit that the blatant sexuality of a Seven of Nine does incite a degree of visceral lust.

Chakotay would most likely not ‘choose’ Janeway if Seven were available unless he unconsciously thought that was the best he could do--our self-perception very much influences who we deem a potential lover and our minds convincingly tell us that we chose this person for good reasons (e.g., she's a better conversationalist).

Who Seven would choose is not as easy. As Freud said--"The great question that has never been answered, and which I have not yet been able to answer, despite my thirty years of research into the feminine soul, is 'What does a woman want?'"
-From Sigmund Freud: Life and Work by Ernest Jones, 1953
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Old June 11 2009, 11:52 PM   #30
JustKate
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

Why would a Borg respect a "chain of authority"? I mean, Borg Queen aside (and wasn't she really just a voice for the whole?), wasn't the entire collective the "authority"? There was no chain - there was just this gigantic group consciousness. I thought. No?

And Zameaze, there are men who find Janeway beautiful and desirable, too - and I am not just talking about her brain, either. Probably not as many as find Seven beautiful, but still, some would. And others are completely enraptured by Kes or some other character. In my years of "research" (I'm not sure how many since it's kind of hard to say at what age I started, but we are talking decades here), I've found that with men, you just never know what will push each one's individual buttons.
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