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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old May 29 2009, 09:21 AM   #91
Butters
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

trevanian wrote: View Post
Butters wrote: View Post
I would re-do the shots of 2001 because some of them were shit. The inside of the space station for example. Part excellent, part odd set. I would augment the original piece with extended interiors and 'realistic' windows. If I was feeling flush I'd also edit out the habitat furniture too and replace it with Ikea.
Gee-zus. 'some of them were shit'

With all the people I've really disliked here down (LOTS!) through the years, I don't think I've ever bothered putting anyone on the IGNORE list before. But those five sentences are off-the-charts enough for me to set a precedent.

You get to go on the IGNORE list.


So because a perfectly valid opinion, (that rotating moon shot in the phone booth being an especially convincing shot ) offends your misguided pretentions, and despite the jestful tone toward the end, yes I'd really go for Ikea furniture in a 21st Century lounge, you feel the need to tell everyone that you're ignoring me. Are your arms folded too? You must be a real blast at parties. Sanctimony is highly regarded these days you know.

I won't expect a reply though, cos you're ignoring me

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Old May 29 2009, 01:06 PM   #92
FalTorPan
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

I agree that some shots from 2001 don't hold up as well today as they did in 1968, but the film remains a classic, and in my mind, no remastering could improve upon Kubrick's vision.
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Old May 29 2009, 02:15 PM   #93
USS Mariner
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

FalTorPan wrote: View Post
I agree that some shots from 2001 don't hold up as well today as they did in 1968, but the film remains a classic, and in my mind, no remastering could improve upon Kubrick's vision.
The only shots that don't really "hold up" in 2001 are the acid trip shots between the "Star Gate" sequence and the bedroom sequence. Those are shit.

Everything else, including the Moon-having-Earth-gravity-which-they-really-couldn't-avoid-without-twice-the-budget shots, hold up really well, and shine like a star in most HD broadcasts I've seen as of late.
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Old May 29 2009, 02:23 PM   #94
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

Butters wrote: View Post

jefferiestubes8 wrote: View Post
Butters wrote: View Post
Every special effect devised from scratch. New angles, different timings, different emphasis, different score.
Wrong. Same angles, same timingsbut only done in CG and rendered in High Definition 1080p. Music would stay the same.
But why keep the same shots? The same timings? Battle sequences could have more action. Engineering could be buzzing with energy...
We're not talking about a Lucasian "special edition;" we're talking about remastering the series to be watchable in HD.

Besides, stuff like reworking the effects shot composition and timings would be next to impossible without a motion-picture effects budget, and even then, you'd run into problems like trying to cut and time the effect sequences before the music score changes or the frame dissolves (the latter of which remains a huge problem for TOSR, and they're only solution is to jump to the new VFX sooner, which kills the presentation.)
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Old May 29 2009, 02:42 PM   #95
Butters
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

USS Mariner wrote: View Post
FalTorPan wrote: View Post
I agree that some shots from 2001 don't hold up as well today as they did in 1968, but the film remains a classic, and in my mind, no remastering could improve upon Kubrick's vision.
The only shots that don't really "hold up" in 2001 are the acid trip shots between the "Star Gate" sequence and the bedroom sequence. Those are shit.

Everything else, including the Moon-having-Earth-gravity-which-they-really-couldn't-avoid-without-twice-the-budget shots, hold up really well, and shine like a star in most HD broadcasts I've seen as of late.
It is a classic from beginning to end, and theres no question of remastering the kubrick's vision but there are the occasional scenes that just standout as the best of 150 bad takes. The whole video phone sequence in particular gets my goat with the disinterested daughter and the 2D rotating vista drag me right out of the film everytime.

We're off topic anyway. This was meant to be about remastering TNG. Other than the cost, which isn't really the concern of any us, why shouldn't it be done? Why the strops and tantrums whenever its suggested that something is changed or, dare I say it, Improved?

TNG is not sacred, its not evperfect the way it is. I can think of a thousand subtle modifications that could be done to improve the appearance and flow of the series. Whatever the series might be, its not supposed to be a static record of what 80s/90s popular TV was like. If its left as it is it will be forgotten in ten years by everyone except the members here.

USS Mariner wrote: View Post
Butters wrote: View Post

But why keep the same shots? The same timings? Battle sequences could have more action. Engineering could be buzzing with energy...
We're not talking about a Lucasian "special edition;" we're talking about remastering the series to be watchable in HD.

Besides, stuff like reworking the effects shot composition and timings would be next to impossible without a motion-picture effects budget, and even then, you'd run into problems like trying to cut and time the effect sequences before the music score changes or the frame dissolves (the latter of which remains a huge problem for TOSR, and they're only solution is to jump to the new VFX sooner, which kills the presentation.)
Every effect shot would need to be reworked to meet the HD standard. New HD CGI ships, planets, replicator, transporter, phasers, photon torpedo, shields. Everything, from scratch. The original film, edited and composited and composted and whatever else they have to do, from scratch. To stand any chance of being effective, each episode would be a new cut. It would be expensive but I don't see how a motion picture effects budget would be required.

It would have to be treated as a brand new series, but with principle photography completed 20 odd years earlier. Theres an opportunity here, and it would serve no-one to do a scene for scene update when each fx shot has to be recreated from the bottom up anyway.

Last edited by Butters; May 29 2009 at 03:03 PM. Reason: Added Reply to USS Mariner
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Old June 3 2009, 10:14 PM   #96
jefferiestubes8
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

Butters wrote: View Post
To stand any chance of being effective, each episode would be a new cut.
Respectfully disagree. If they were to do TNG-R like TOS-R it would be to replace the visual effects only with CGI.



It would have to be treated as a brand new series, but with principle photography completed 20 odd years earlier.
CBS & Paramount will not do this due to costs and R.O.I. as a business decision.
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Old June 3 2009, 10:33 PM   #97
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

Hum...the early score was mostly orchestral with some synthesizer for flavor...And it was hardly awful, the early years *had* the best scores. Dennis McCarthy and Ron Jones in full strenght before they were neutered and eventually fired in the case of Jones...
There are *some* scores were Jones used more synthesizer than usual (specially in late Season 1 and early Season 3), but we are talking about the man which delivered masterpiece after masterpiece...
You didn't like stuff like the "Borg Voice Chorus" in Best of Both Worlds?
McCarthy rarely used synthesizer, the only cues I remember are from Encounter at Farpoint...
Jay Chattaway would also use synthesizer during all the years of his work so it wasn't a "early TNG thing" only...
Dennis Bell too I think.
And of course the master of them all, Jerry Goldsmith was quite fond of using synthesizer and if there's a man that defined Star Trek music it was him...
By the way, the only season of Star Trek that really used synthesizer scores, i.e. full blown synthesizer scores, was Enterprise's Fourth due to budgetary cuts. And it wasn't that bad...
I admit I tend to prefer fully orchestral scores, and some of those Jones' scores were borderline but I thought it was good nonetheless.
Just curious, which season of TNG (and/or Modern Trek) you consider had the best scores?
You read my mind word for word. I still cannot understand why people hate the synthesizer bits. Like you said, they had a full orchestra supplemented by synthesized parts. Most of the synthesis wasn't even hard synthesis, more like ethereal bell and pad sounds that complimented the series astoundingly. I missed the synth scores when they went away.
Funny how people give credit to a movie like "Forbidden Planet" for having a full synth score (which was basically a Theremin going "wooo wooo wooo wooo wooo" the entire movie), and TNG gets blasted for its minor use of synths. It IS a Sci-Fi series people, sciency instruments should be allowed (or do you want the Berman wallpaper themes all throughout the series?)
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Old June 3 2009, 10:52 PM   #98
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

The only episode where I thought the synths were shit was The Outrageous Okona. But everything else in that episode was shit too, so it sort of fits the tone.
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Old June 4 2009, 03:06 PM   #99
Doug Otte
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
You read my mind word for word. I still cannot understand why people hate the synthesizer bits. Like you said, they had a full orchestra supplemented by synthesized parts. Most of the synthesis wasn't even hard synthesis, more like ethereal bell and pad sounds that complimented the series astoundingly. I missed the synth scores when they went away.
Funny how people give credit to a movie like "Forbidden Planet" for having a full synth score (which was basically a Theremin going "wooo wooo wooo wooo wooo" the entire movie), and TNG gets blasted for its minor use of synths. It IS a Sci-Fi series people, sciency instruments should be allowed (or do you want the Berman wallpaper themes all throughout the series?)
I agree with you wholeheartedly. The early season cues always stood out, while the later seasons were generally bland.

I just have a small nitpick: I don't know if a Theremin was used at all in Forbidden Planet. The husband/wife team that composed the score used mostly, if not all, primitive oscillators with various filters etc.

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Old June 4 2009, 04:49 PM   #100
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

Herkimer Jitty wrote: View Post
The only episode where I thought the synths were shit was The Outrageous Okona.
I love that phrase, "the synths were shit".
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Old June 4 2009, 04:52 PM   #101
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

Costs and logistics aside, I'd rather not see TNG remastered. I watch the old episodes, and I don't the special effects are so awful as to warrant a second crack at what the special effects people may have wanted in a perfect world.

I'm sure it would look great, but I don't see it being as necessary as it was with TOS.

That's just me.
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Old June 4 2009, 07:18 PM   #102
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

It's not the FX that make me want a TNG remastered, it's the concept of a clear, non-blurry picture.

I'm not sure if it's the videotape or what but TNG looks really bad when upscaled to high-def, at least in my opinion. I find it hard to watch without noticing how diffuse and soft the picture is.

Oddly DS9 and Voyager don't seem to suffer from this as much, though I understand the technology used was the same.
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Old June 4 2009, 08:44 PM   #103
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

Herkimer Jitty wrote: View Post
The only episode where I thought the synths were shit was The Outrageous Okona. But everything else in that episode was shit too, so it sort of fits the tone.
Maybe they can remaster Data saying "fish" instead of "amphibian" too.
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Old June 4 2009, 08:55 PM   #104
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

barnaclelapse wrote: View Post
Costs and logistics aside, I'd rather not see TNG remastered. I watch the old episodes, and I don't the special effects are so awful as to warrant a second crack at what the special effects people may have wanted in a perfect world.
If they do a remasterd TNG the primary objective would not be to improve the visual effects (though the may do that too). The objective would be to make it look half way decent on HDTVs.

As I mentioned earlier there is really no choice. Either they make an HD version of TNG or watch it fade into obscurity. I think what they are hoping for is for the upconversion/interpolation technology to improve to a point that they could use that instead of redoing the entire post prodcution.
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Old June 4 2009, 09:52 PM   #105
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

I've been tinkering for weeks with the PS3 settings and the Sony TV settings.

I have the PS3 set on normal upscale, but the other settings set to full (mosquito etc) and it gives a good picture. My custom TV setting required things like some contrast, black adjuster etc etc to get the right setting.

Anyway the worse scene so far has been Admiral Kennelly in Ensign Ro when he first meets Picard. The noise and grey flecks are a problem, however on some scenes, such as Gowron on the main viewer the picture is excellent.

Static pictures, especially Geordi's visor, look stunningly clear, whilst moving frames are poor.

Overall it's acceptable 90% of the time.

I think we'll see a Blu Ray sometime over the next 2 years, but whether it's an upscale of the best transfer they can get, or whether it's the full works, I'm not sure. I'd certainly settle for them doing the best transfer they possibly can even from the video originals.

Two questions...

1. 1080 is the current maximum for widescreen HD, but in 4:3 what is the pixel width within the black bands??? (ie a fraction of the 1080)

2. What do other shows that have been professionally upscaled look like?
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