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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old June 2 2009, 08:22 PM   #1546
Praetor
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

NCC-1701 wrote: View Post
GodBen wrote: View Post
The episode starts out in the holodeck, which I assumed meant that Tom was trying to fix it after the whole grid was overloaded in the last episode, but apparently not. Then Shmully shows up complaining that Tom hasn't been spending any time in sickbay over the last few weeks, which I assumed would lead to a comment about sickbay being blowed up real good last week, but that didn't happen. Then it is revealed that Tom is now obsessed with repairing a 20th century car, which I assumed would somehow be tied into him being trapped in that 20th century setting last week, but no he is just being an obsessive ass. By the time we got to sickbay half way through the episode and saw that it was in the same pristine condition it was in before being blowed up real good... I was disappointed. At that point I realised it must have been a production goof and that this episode was produced at a different time and placed here as a mistake, so I checked the production number and was shocked to see that the episode is exactly where it should be.
You, Sir, are a very mean man. But you are absolutely right.
Agreed.

This story could have even been told better while the crew were at some allied station making repairs to the ship (instead of Tom's Camaro, beauty though it was.) Was the ship itself really necessary to be in action for this episode? I think not. Make it a hybrid "Tom gets body-switched" A-story and "fixing the ship" B-story, or vice versa. Have Tom get switched with no one noticing at first amidst the repairs, then they start figuring it out.

If I'd had my druthers, the whole episode should have really been a "fixing the ship" story about the crew's angst and mixed feelings of hope and despair - hope that they had had contact with the AQ but now despair that things seem to be getting worse.

And the ship would have stayed scarred, at least somewhat. I think by this point 3/4 of their ship shots were now CGI, so they could have easily tweaked the Voyager mesh.

NCC-1701 wrote: View Post
GodBen wrote: View Post
... and I don't like seeing Bulldog with hair. It's just wrong.
Wow, I didn't even notice that it was good ol' Bulldog!
...who?

Dane_Whitman wrote: View Post
I don't care much for Vis à Vis, but one thing that stood out to me was the excellent design of the alien starships we see (briefly) in this episode. What a shame they were wasted on such an episode!
This is true.
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Old June 2 2009, 08:42 PM   #1547
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Praetor wrote: View Post
NCC-1701 wrote: View Post
Wow, I didn't even notice that it was good ol' Bulldog!
...who?
I take it you're not a Frasier fan then?
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Old June 2 2009, 09:36 PM   #1548
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

NCC-1701 wrote: View Post
Praetor wrote: View Post
NCC-1701 wrote: View Post
Wow, I didn't even notice that it was good ol' Bulldog!
...who?
I take it you're not a Frasier fan then?
Eh, a casual viewer. I mean, I like it. But I don't watch it much.
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Old June 2 2009, 09:56 PM   #1549
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Basically BSG and Voyager were opposite ends of the spectrum. The Voyager crew seemed to be having a bit too much fun, yet the BSG lot barely cracked a smile. Gallows humour will always exist in the worst situations (the 'Blitz spirit' if you like), so somewhere there's a happy medium.

I disagree. In fact, I think that your assessment of VOYAGER is an exaggeration.
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Old June 2 2009, 10:44 PM   #1550
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

brcarthey wrote: View Post
you make it sound like that's all there was to this episode. you completely disregard the body switching and the premise of the not knowing how good one's got it until they don't. i admit this is not my favorite tom-centric episode either, but your review just seems off or incomplete. he's not a perfect person and i think the writers just tried to over-emphasize that here to the point of melodramatism. but he does try to atone for his transgressions at the end.
He atones for it by screwing B'Elanna in a Camero. I'd knowingly commit the crime if that was the atonement I had to go through, I'd commit the crime multiple times from as many angles as possible.

VDCNI wrote: View Post
Hi - I'm new on these boards but found this thread and have had a great time reading it so far - it has even inspired me to dust off my Voyager DVDs and rewatch the series. Though perhaps starting off with The Killing Game & Vis à Vis was not the best idea!
Oh, you chose a bad time to join the thread. You should have joined in a few day ago around the time of Message in a Bottle, there was a good run of episodes after that.

Dane_Whitman wrote: View Post
I don't care much for Vis à Vis, but one thing that stood out to me was the excellent design of the alien starships we see (briefly) in this episode. What a shame they were wasted on such an episode!
Agreed, there was some really good designs in this episode and it is a real shame that they only appeared in two or three shots each.

Praetor wrote: View Post
If I'd had my druthers, the whole episode should have really been a "fixing the ship" story about the crew's angst and mixed feelings of hope and despair - hope that they had had contact with the AQ but now despair that things seem to be getting worse.
You and I need to write our on Star Trek show. With blackjack! And hookers!
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Old June 3 2009, 12:04 AM   #1551
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
Praetor wrote: View Post
If I'd had my druthers, the whole episode should have really been a "fixing the ship" story about the crew's angst and mixed feelings of hope and despair - hope that they had had contact with the AQ but now despair that things seem to be getting worse.
You and I need to write our on Star Trek show. With blackjack! And hookers!
Dude, that would be awesome!
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Old June 3 2009, 12:31 AM   #1552
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

We'd have to replace the blackjack with Dabo, of course. And the hookers would need to be replaced with Dabo girls... actually, we'd just end up recreating DS9 again.


The Omega Directive (**)


On the surface this episode has a lot of things which should make it great, the omega directive itself is such an interesting concept that the episode could have been expanded to be an epic two-parter. It certainly deserves that treatment more than The Killing Game. But just by looking at the score you can tell I have serious problems with this episode.

Some people think that Voyager ruined the Borg in the later seasons, particularly during Unimatrix Zero and Endgame. Some think the Borg were ruined on TNG with Descent. Some think the Damage began with the introduction of the Queen in First Contact. I think the major damage to the Borg was done right here in this episode. I don't like the idea of the Borg being spiritual and seeking out the omega particle in order to marvel at "perfection". What made the Borg so cool was that their motivation was purely to assimilate everything into their collective, this religious BS about achieving perfection doesn't work for me at all. Seven's story in this episode failed for me because of this.

My second problem is that I just don't understand why omega is a big secret or why they are compelled to destroy it. I understand that it's dangerous and Starfleet don't want it falling into the wrong hands, but knowing that it exists doesn't mean that people are going to know how to make it into a weapon. I know that nuclear bombs exist, but I don't have a clue about how to make one.

And why does Voyager need to destroy omega? There was a risk that it would destroy subspace in the region, but Janeway's plan involved blowing it up real good and letting it destroy subspace in a particular region of space. They blew it up to prevent it from blowing up?

The whole thing is stupid anyway because Janeway's decision to destroy it is only preventing the problem in the short term, her failure to try and negotiate with these aliens means that they'll probably just create more omega particles within a year. The aliens need omega because they have depleted their energy resources, they're not going to stop just because of a set-back like this. And Voyager seems to have plenty of energy every week (unless the plot demands otherwise), Janeway could have agreed to give them some of their energy producing technology in return for stopping production on omega. They were breaching the Prime Directive anyway, so why not?

There's a good sense of doom from the episode, and a lot of good stuff early on when the crew don't know what is going on, but ultimately it falls apart.
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Old June 3 2009, 03:24 AM   #1553
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

The Omega Directive gets 2.5 stars from me.

It seems as if season four peaked around Prey and then proceeded a slow decline into mediocrity for the most of the remainder of the season. I didn't care for Vis a Vis, One, Unforgettable, Demon, Hope and Fear and this Lisa Klink penned episode.

Unlike some of her episodes, this wasn't bad or awful just very boring. None of it really interested me so I don't have a lot to say about it.

The episode started off in an interesting fashion with the mysterious Omega symbol popping up all over the bridge monitors but the revelation of what it is all about is pretty pedestrian. I usually like Mulgrew's acting but I found her far too strident in this episode and frankly by this point in the series I was tired of the Janeway must go it alone attitude.

Beyond the story itself not being compelling, I didn't like the idea of Seven viewing the Omega particle in religious terms. The Borg are beyond that and it really doesn't fit well with them. Faith and spirituality is the antithesis for a soulless collective intelligence who should view religion as irrelevant as love or some other cultural construct. So Seven's awed expression as she views the particle working in perfect unison fell flat.

I did like a few small details--Seven explaining to Kim about how no one really dies in the Collective since the sum total of their memories remain, the debut of the Vulcan game kalto, the continuity tip of the hat to the Genesis device. I also thought it was cute how Seven turned her team into a mini-collective assigning designations.

The aliens were dull, the battle sequences weren't anything special.
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Old June 3 2009, 05:01 AM   #1554
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I would give Omega Directive two stars as well. Not my favorite episode and I was shocked to find it as a fan pic on fan collection DVD.
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Old June 3 2009, 09:39 AM   #1555
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I quite liked the idea of the Omega Directive - it's quite different from your standard Voyager episode with a stronger sci-fi element than usual. However the religious aspect feels more like the writers needed a new subject to explore with Seven rather than a convincing element of the Borg. That said, I can't remember the details but I'm sure the last Destiny book makes good use of the Borg & Omega.

As mentioned there were some nice touches - I liked that when Chakotay confronted Janeway over the issue she agreed relatively quickly rather than making the episode about the argument. It felt like after this long stranded together that is where the relationship should be rather than Janeway obsessing about Starfleet regulations.

Pretty average all in all but more thoughtful than most Voyager episodes.
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Old June 3 2009, 09:02 PM   #1556
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

startrekwatcher wrote: View Post
Beyond the story itself not being compelling, I didn't like the idea of Seven viewing the Omega particle in religious terms. The Borg are beyond that and it really doesn't fit well with them. Faith and spirituality is the antithesis for a soulless collective intelligence who should view religion as irrelevant as love or some other cultural construct.
Generally, I found the whole concept that the borg could have a culture or spiritual beliefs without individuality to be implausible. That observation is not just for this epidose but in general.

That being said I would rate this one higher. I think it did a good job touching on what happens if a ship in Voyager's situation needs to follow a directive but doesn't have the support it would normally have if not in the Delta quadrant.
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Old June 3 2009, 10:46 PM   #1557
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Utterly Forgettable (*½)

An alien wants to escape his oppressive government so he boards Voyager, but an agent from that government also boards Voyager to capture him. Janeway decides to help this agent so they capture the alien and forcefully send him home. Everyone forgets this ever happened. Two weeks later this agent shows up on Voyager because she wants to escape the same oppressive government. Janeway decides the government is mean and oppressive and promises to protect her from the nasty agents sent to recover her.

Here you have it folks, many people criticise Janeway for making wildly erratic and conflicting decisions between different episodes, but here we see her make two completely conflicting decisions in the same episode. Plot leading character: bad.

No I did not like this episode, and the fact that the woman was apparently on the ship while the Hirogen were in charge doesn't help it's case. Trek has trouble doing romance and for every one story which worked (e.g. Lifesigns) there's five that don't. The romance here is so incredibly bland; they eat ice-cream and then they kiss as the music swells in the background. I know that when you're in love doing boring things together such as washing the dishes or watching Voyager (hey-oh! ) can be enjoyable, but to an outside observer it is just boring. I like what the episode is trying to be, but I don't like what it is.
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Old June 3 2009, 10:55 PM   #1558
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

You know, I had to search Memory Alpha to remember what the episode was about, even though I watched all of VOY just a few months ago. I guess the aliens's magic worked then.
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Old June 3 2009, 11:00 PM   #1559
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Yep, Unforgettable is epic suckage.
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Old June 3 2009, 11:05 PM   #1560
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

People, don't hate me, but I somewhat like this one. Mostly because I like the idea of Kellin's race (although I must admit that it didn't make a lot of sense how even tricorder readings can't remember her ). I guess it's also because I like Chakotay and get a kick out of seeing Virginia Madsen in Star Trek. I loved her in Sideways!
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