A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager

[Jaespol]

How can anyone say season 2 is better than season 3?

[Praetor]

While season three has some good episodes, it also has some real stinkers. On average, it's not as good as the occasionally bland but generally consistent season two, IMO.

[TheGodBen]

startrekwatcher wrote:

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I don't see those things as contrived. Is it really hard to believe that with all the Trek gadgets we've seen that there isn't a device that could alter memories and identities. It was necessary for the story andpersonally I was fine with it.

This is going to be hard for me to describe, and it's not going to help that I'm currently drunk (I really need to stop posting at 4:30am on Saturday nights), but this episode feels to me like a house of cards which physically exists, but which is impossible to construct.

I told you it wouldn't make sense.

The idea that the Hirogen capture Voyager, find out about holodeck technology, decide to use it for hunting, decide to involve the Voyager crew, they have the technology which makes the crew think they are holodeck characters, the holodecks themselves are expanded to be massive structures... it doesn't feel natural. If the episode had tried to tell this story from the beginning then I don't think Braga and Menosky would have been able to do it, so they jumped ahead to the end of the story and started from there.

Praetor wrote:

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They did originally air them both together, you know.

I remember being on holiday when these episodes aired so I got a friend to record them and I watched them both at his house when I got back. I remembered liking them at the time, but I was twelve and going through my WWII fascination stage.

Jaespol wrote:

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How can anyone say season 2 is better than season 3?

It's not too hard, you just have to put the words in the correct order, like this:

Season 2 is better than season 3.

It takes some practice, but if you keep at it you'll get there eventually.

[Tachyon]

Jaespol wrote:

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How can anyone say season 2 is better than season 3?

Season 2 is easily better than Season 3.

[Praetor]

GodBen wrote:

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I remember being on holiday when these episodes aired so I got a friend to record them and I watched them both at his house when I got back. I remembered liking them at the time, but I was twelve and going through my WWII fascination stage.

I don't think I ever grew out of mine.

FWIW, my dad, a casual Trekkie who enjoyed DS9, and the movies the most, also liked the Hirogen, a lot, but I remember him commenting that he didn't think they were very smart sometime around "Prey."

[DGCatAniSiri]

My mother's still in the middle of hers. It probably didn't help that for a good chunk of time, she's taught freshmen history, which in our district focused on the twentieth century. For a good long while, she'd spend the better part of a quarter on the subject. Of course, now they've got her teaching post-Reinassance to modern times, so she's got to condense things quite a bit.

Uh... What was the original topic again?

[TedShatner10]

Tachyon wrote:

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Season 2 is easily better than Season 3.

Season Two had some pretty great stuff like "Projections", "The Thaw", "Meld", and "Deadlock", a big wad of passably entertaining but underwhelming episodes like "Cold Fire", "The 37s", "Dreadnought", and "Basics", and rotten turkey episodes like "Twisted" and of course the infamous "Threshold".

Season Three had no hole in the head episodes on the same scale of fail as "Threshold", although the poorly conceived "The Q and the Grey" came close, but most of it was more blander and forgettable, however we had highly entertaining two parters in the form of "Future's End" and "Scorpion". "Before & After" was good for a Kes episode, "The Chut" was a good prison episode that would've fit in well on DS9, while "Distant Origins" wasn't so bad and had a decent stab at Aliens of the Week that weren't just blokes with bumpy foreheads and bad hair styles.

[Jaespol]

Tachyon wrote:

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Season 2 is easily better than Season 3.

Season 2 was simply full of mediocre or bad episodes for me.
Season 3 on the other hands had both awful and outstanding episodes - it was less balanced but it had a lot more highpoints in my opinion.

[TheGodBen]

Judging by my graphs, I considered season 3 to be overloaded with poor episodes with not enough good episodes to balance things out. Season 2 was more evenly balanced but still underperformed.


The Killing Game, Part 2 (*½)

To put it simply, this episode is just like part one but slightly better. They finally get around to the point of the thing, which is that the commandant guy wants to save his people using the holodeck technology. The rest of the episode is just more fun with alien nazis, and we get Neelix as Klingon too. This is emmy material right here folks.

Sickbay was destroyed in an explosion, corridors are falling apart, the holo-grid was forcefully overloaded across half the ship, crewmembers are being shot and potentially killed at every turn, and apparently the fighting continued for several days after the main events of this episode. I'm looking forward to the follow-up for all this in the next episode.

[Lynx]

Jaespol wrote:

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How can anyone say season 2 is better than season 3?

In my opinion, season 2 of Voyager is the best Star Trek season ever.

All the episodes were great, except for "Threshold" and that episode is at least a bit funny. Some real masterpieces, such as "Cold Fire", "Persistence Of Vision", "Basics", "Alliances".

Season 3 had some really good episodes, like "Warlord", "The Swarm", "Darkling" but some bad and mediocre ones like "Blood Fever" and "Macrocosm" as well. Not as good as season 2 and season 1.

http://lynx677.110mb.com/episodeguide.html

[kimc]

Jaespol wrote:

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How can anyone say season 2 is better than season 3?

Like this: "Season 2 is better than season 3."

See, not so hard to do.

[Jaespol]

kimc wrote:

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Like this: "Season 2 is better than season 3."

See, not so hard to do.

Yes, yes, Godben already said that, "hahaha"

Lynx wrote:

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In my opinion, season 2 of Voyager is the best Star Trek season ever.

All the episodes were great, except for "Threshold" and that episode is at least a bit funny. Some real masterpieces, such as "Cold Fire", "Persistence Of Vision", "Basics", "Alliances".

Season 3 had some really good episodes, like "Warlord", "The Swarm", "Darkling" but some bad and mediocre ones like "Blood Fever" and "Macrocosm" as well. Not as good as season 2 and season 1.

Since when are "Cold Fire", "Persistence of Vision", "Basics" and "Alliances" masterpieces? I consider them all to be middling at best.
Also I don't see how "The Swarm" or "Darkling" were really good, I do think your love of Kes gets in the way of seeing the true quality of an episode, just because she is in an episode more surely doesn't mean its a masterpiece no?

Episodes in season 3 that stand out for me as being very good

The Chute
Remember
Warlord
Unity
Before and After
Distant Origin
Displaced
Worst Case Scenario

Season 2 episodes that stood out as being very good

Lifesigns
Deadlock
The Thaw

The two can't just compare in my opinion.

[kimc]

^ Well that's your opinion and you're entitled to it just as those who prefer Season 2 are entitled to theirs. Great episodes I would add to your short list though are "Resistance", "Death Wish" and "Meld" among others.

[Jaespol]

I nearly died of boredom watching "Resistance" and "Death Wish", oh well different strokes and all that...

[kimc]

Jaespol wrote:

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I nearly died of boredom watching "Resistance" and "Death Wish", oh well different strokes and all that...

Now you're catching on.