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Old May 29 2009, 06:30 PM   #16
HopefulRomantic
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Re: Similitude

I thought it was a powerful and moving episode, a classic Trek examination of an impossible dilemma with no "right" solution. Top-notch performances from the cast, great direction, wonderful music (Velton Ray Bunch won the Emmy in 2004 for this score). The scene with Sim and Porthos choked me up, too.

It's in my top three, along with "Observer Effect" and "The Forgotten."
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Old May 29 2009, 07:46 PM   #17
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Re: Similitude

HopefulRomantic wrote: View Post
I thought it was a powerful and moving episode, a classic Trek examination of an impossible dilemma with no "right" solution. Top-notch performances from the cast, great direction, wonderful music (Velton Ray Bunch won the Emmy in 2004 for this score). The scene with Sim and Porthos choked me up, too.

It's in my top three, along with "Observer Effect" and "The Forgotten."
oh, yes, this scene between sim and porthos! so simple and so moving in the same time. i love this scene.
and yes, don't forget LeVar Burton who have done a terrific work.
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Old May 29 2009, 07:52 PM   #18
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Re: Similitude

Beautiful story, beautifully told. It's one of the many things that ENT got right that I thought other iterations of Trek lacked: the refusal to invoke a deus ex machina to solve the ethical dilemma.
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Old May 29 2009, 08:21 PM   #19
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Re: Similitude

I am going to catch Hell. I didn'r care for rtthis episode.

I can buy Phlox being able to clone Trip.

But the things in the episode that bothered me.

Like sim walkig down a hall about 20 years old and we hear that he is very popular with the crew. HOw. The crew would not have known him. first day a Baby, second day a child, third day an adolescent ( am fairly ceertain that Phlox did not drag sim around the ship those thre days. so day four sim is a Teen apparently spendig rthe cday in sickbay taking apart and putting together equipment. Did Phlox drag him arond the ship to introduce him to the entire crew that evening? Doubt if he had the time.

So day five how could sim be very popular with a crew that would hot have known him.

Same with T-Pol. Sim would have only had face time with her on day five and day six and that probably would have been off and on maybe totaling hree or four hours total.

How could sim say that he had feelings for a woman he was barely aquainted with and she him.

so the scene where T-Pol is saying goodby she says the whole crew will miss him. the whole crew does not even know him how could they miss him. and she says she wil miss him too. Again she is barely acquainted with him.

Things like that bothered me.
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Old May 29 2009, 08:41 PM   #20
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Re: Similitude

Actually, Sim's admission about his feelings for T'Pol included his acknowledgement that he wasn't sure they were his feelings. He wondered if they might be Trip's.
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Old May 29 2009, 08:50 PM   #21
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Re: Similitude

Penguin wrote: View Post
Like sim walkig down a hall about 20 years old and we hear that he is very popular with the crew. HOw. The crew would not have known him. first day a Baby, second day a child, third day an adolescent ( am fairly ceertain that Phlox did not drag sim around the ship those thre days. so day four sim is a Teen apparently spendig rthe cday in sickbay taking apart and putting together equipment. Did Phlox drag him arond the ship to introduce him to the entire crew that evening? Doubt if he had the time.

So day five how could sim be very popular with a crew that would hot have known him.

Same with T-Pol. Sim would have only had face time with her on day five and day six and that probably would have been off and on maybe totaling hree or four hours total.

How could sim say that he had feelings for a woman he was barely aquainted with and she him.

so the scene where T-Pol is saying goodby she says the whole crew will miss him. the whole crew does not even know him how could they miss him. and she says she wil miss him too. Again she is barely acquainted with him.
This is what I was getting at when I mentioned that the crew's interactions with Sim are difficult to believe. This is exacerbated by the fact that everyone on the ship should have known that he was a clone created solely for the purpose of saving Trip. His seemingly tight connection is a little unbelievable.

That being said, I'm still going to give it another shot taking into account what everyone has said here. I definitely see some of the points for why this is such a great episode.
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Old May 30 2009, 12:17 AM   #22
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Re: Similitude

Penguin wrote: View Post
But the things in the episode that bothered me.

Like sim walkig down a hall about 20 years old and we hear that he is very popular with the crew. HOw. The crew would not have known him. first day a Baby, second day a child, third day an adolescent ( am fairly ceertain that Phlox did not drag sim around the ship those thre days.
It wasn't established in the episode that Phlox kept Sim sequestered in sickbay, taking his meals in secret. Hoshi was in sickbay to read to him; there might have been others who came to ask about Trip, and met Sim in the process. Phlox struck me as a caring father who seemed intent on giving the boy a good life, which would probably include exercise, stimulating environments, playtime, and socialization. In a deleted scene, Archer found young (12 year old) Sim playing with Porthos, so the kid had a companion to play with.

If the boy made a good impression whenever he met someone, in the mess hall or playing with the dog or learning about the ship--if he were personable, polite, interested in the world of the ship--it's very credible to me that he would be "adopted" by the crew as one of their own.

If the crew had been told that Sim was here to save Commander Tucker's life, and afterward Sim would live out the rest of his natural lifespan of only two weeks...the crew could, of course, avoid the kid because he'd be out from underfoot in a couple weeks. Or they might seek him out and befriend him, because of why he was here, and because he wouldn't be here for long. The script seems to indicate that the crew chose to embrace him.

so day four sim is a Teen apparently spendig rthe cday in sickbay taking apart and putting together equipment.
That scene took place in the mess hall, not sickbay. Phlox said Sim spent "this morning" taking apart his medical tricorder.

Same with T-Pol. Sim would have only had face time with her on day five and day six and that probably would have been off and on maybe totaling hree or four hours total.
By the time we first see the 17-year-oldish Sim, Archer has already assigned him to engineering, and he has been working there with T'Pol for an unspecified time. With the repair of the engines a top priority, it's possible that he worked with her from dawn to dusk (so to speak). By the time Sim tells her she's all he thinks about, they could have spent many hours together.

How could sim say that he had feelings for a woman he was barely aquainted with and she him.
JiNX has already addressed this, but there's also the possibility of "love at first sight"...or in this case, a couple-three days. It does happen to people. I knew only two hours after meeting my future husband that he was very, very special.

If you don't buy the episode, you don't buy it. But it worked for me.
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Old May 30 2009, 12:47 AM   #23
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Re: Similitude

HopefulRomantic wrote: View Post
I knew only two hours after meeting my future husband that he was very, very special.
Oh, that is so sweet. Not to derail the topic, but how long did it take him?
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Old May 30 2009, 02:29 AM   #24
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Re: Similitude

HR, not trying to be argumentative. However, I have read two Fanfics of yours where you have T-Pol and sim at the movies and T-Pol seems to be coming on to Sim

In the other you have Sim in love with T-Pol.

so I believe that you are a bit biased.

As you say you see Sim one way and I see Sim another way.
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Old May 30 2009, 02:52 AM   #25
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Re: Similitude

T'Pol is grappling with attraction/affection for Sim, which she may not be able to separate from her attraction/affection for Trip, hence the kiss goodbye. Sim goes from puppy love to a confusion of feeling; he admits he's not sure if they're his feelings or Trip's. It's one of the charming and altogether tragic elements of the story. I've read HR's fics, and she nicely captures what is represented in the episode: two confused people trying to figure out how they feel, what they feel, and why the feel it. (Having a bias one way or the other is not the same as being wrong.)
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Old May 30 2009, 07:42 AM   #26
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Re: Similitude

JiNX-01 wrote: View Post
HopefulRomantic wrote: View Post
I knew only two hours after meeting my future husband that he was very, very special.
Oh, that is so sweet. Not to derail the topic, but how long did it take him?
About the same. There was this mutual...spark. Just like you hear in song and story.

Penguin wrote: View Post
HR, not trying to be argumentative. However, I have read two Fanfics of yours where you have T-Pol and sim at the movies and T-Pol seems to be coming on to Sim
That's an interesting interpretation of the story.

In the other you have Sim in love with T-Pol.
Are you referring to "Preview of Coming Attraction" or "Overload"? In the latter, there is more of an explanation...at least from Phlox's perspective.

so I believe that you are a bit biased.
Keep in mind that the stories are told from Phlox's point of view.


My canon "missing scene" stories, such as the Sim series, are creative extrapolations based on what I see in an episode. My previous post is also speculation based on what we saw in "Similitude":
  • Phlox caring lovingly for baby Sim
  • no evidence that Phlox kept Sim isolated in sickbay
  • Hoshi visiting sickbay to read with Sim
  • a scene with Sim and Phlox in the mess hall, indicating that he might take his meals there
  • young Sim's personable and curious attitude
  • the deleted scene with Sim playing with Porthos (okay, you saw it if you bought the DVDs)
  • Archer's log entry mentioning that Sim has practically become a member of the crew, and that Sim has been working in engineering with T'Pol
  • the desperate urgency of getting the engines up and running again, likely necessitating long hours and/or double shifts in engineering
  • T'Pol's line to Sim: "I just want you to know how much your absence will affect the crew...how much it will affect me."
  • Teenage Sim asking T'Pol out on a date in engineering (twice)
  • Sim's line to T'Pol: "You're all I think about..."
  • Sim's line to Phlox: "You were a damn good father."
  • Phlox's line to Sim: "You're a damn good son."
We did not see the crew informed why Sim was suddenly in their midst; my musings above are speculation. But it seems unlikely that they would have been kept in the dark about this sudden new person who grew inhumanly quickly and would eventually resemble Trip, and die of old age in two weeks.

bluedana wrote: View Post
I've read HR's fics, and she nicely captures what is represented in the episode: two confused people trying to figure out how they feel, what they feel, and why the feel it. (Having a bias one way or the other is not the same as being wrong.)
Thanks, bluedana. I'm glad you liked the stories.
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Old June 8 2009, 04:14 PM   #27
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Re: Similitude

This eps always ranks up there as one of my fav eps.
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