RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,210
Posts: 5,404,644
Members: 24,758
Currently online: 666
Newest member: ashlynnbrooke80

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Time’s Orphan
By: Michelle on Aug 30

September-October Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Aug 29

Lee Passes
By: T'Bonz on Aug 29

Trek Merchandise Sale
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek #39 Villain Revealed
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Trek Big Bang Figures
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek Seekers Cover Art
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Fan Film Axanar Kickstarter Success
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Two New Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Actor Wins Emmy
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 27 2009, 12:30 AM   #1456
startrekwatcher
Rear Admiral
 
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Hunters gets three stars out of 4 from me.

Message in a Bottle was one of the only episodes written by Klink that I truly enjoyed and in the same vein, Hunters is one of the few Taylor episodes I actually enjoyed.

I thought the episode got off on the right note with the striking opening of the transmission from Starfleet against the beautiful spatial backdrop tracking outward from space to the bridge of Voyager. I really thought this mini-arc the show did was quite good.

The Tuvok/Seven subplot centering on them being captured by the Hirogen wasn't groundbreaking but it held my attention well enough and I've always enjoyed when Seven's abrasive attitude clashes with assholes like the hunters. I also enjoyed seeing she and Tuvok "bond".

It was also interesting seeing more of the Hirogen vessel and their hunting equipment. I also liked the idea of a hunting society that views other sentient beings as prey.

The other plot onboard the ship with the crew receiving letters from home was was just as interesting. Neelix was the perfect postman as it were given that he wasn't going to receive a letter. The reactions from those that received a letter were touching at times and appropriate. It made sense Mark would have moved on and for Janeway it was bittersweet.

I also appreciated the fact that the writers remembered the Maquis and I liked how they engaged once again in some cross-series continuity by mentioning if not explicitly(although VOY would have been aware of the Dominion before they got lost in season three of DS9) the fact that Cardassia had joined the Dominion and the Dominion destroyed the Maquis(referring to DS9's "Blaze of Glory").

It also introduces an ongoing mystery element that will be mentioned a few more times--the coded message from Starfleet. Granted it ended up going nowhere and paying off in the most uninteresting way in "Hope and Fear" but at the time it was an intriguing hook.
startrekwatcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2009, 12:39 AM   #1457
Alex1939
Captain
 
Alex1939's Avatar
 
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

startrekwatcher wrote: View Post

I also appreciated the fact that the writers remembered the Maquis...
It's sad that this deserves praise.

Yet sadly it does, because the show never focused on the separation of crews enough. It worked and was done well in this episode, imo.
Alex1939 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2009, 01:33 AM   #1458
TheGodBen
Rear Admiral
 
TheGodBen's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Wasn't this the episode where B'Elanna's suicidal depression started? I'll have to keep an eye for for that and see if it really was as random as it seemed at the time.
__________________
...so many different suns...
TheGodBen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2009, 04:58 AM   #1459
Tachyon
Fleet Captain
 
Tachyon's Avatar
 
Location: Finland
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
Wasn't this the episode where B'Elanna's suicidal depression started?

Yes.
__________________
Avatar by Belanna.
Tachyon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2009, 07:16 AM   #1460
DGCatAniSiri
Captain
 
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
Wasn't this the episode where B'Elanna's suicidal depression started? I'll have to keep an eye for for that and see if it really was as random as it seemed at the time.
SUPPOSEDLY. Granted, some of it might have fallen by the wayside due to Roxann Dawson's pregnancy, but I didn't see any sign of it through the rest of the season.

I think the episode would have worked out well enough without the hunters at all - have something on the station malfunction and unleash the black hole power source (or whatever it was) all on its own, and that destroys the station. That way, the focus could be entirely on the crew and their reactions to learning what those they care about have done with their lives, and, ultimately, the only thing lost is a gratuitous space battle scene. We don't really get any idea of the Hirogen as a species in this episode - we don't really even learn anything about them next week, so their appearance here could have been completely removed without losing a thing of value.

I'm really disappointed that we only see the reactions of Chakotay and B'Elanna to the Maquis slaughter - B'Elanna's reaction is entirely predictable (though not a bad thing in her case), but Chakotay gets NOTHING to do in reaction. The fact that they lost close friends, that the cause they were fighting for is gone, that in fact, in the ultimate scheme of things, the Maquis were killed and slaughtered so casually, almost as an afterthought... This should get them both angry. What point was there, ultimately - yes, the Maquis were proven right about how you can't trust the Cardassians, but they were just slaughtered, wiped out, not for being a threat but because the Dominion wanted to get rid of this minor irritant before moving on to the bigger fish - the Dominion probably used little more than a small fleet to wipe out the people and bases of the Maquis, and did so in so short a time - Dukat promised to have the Maquis eliminated five days after taking power, and he pretty much did, basically limiting the Maquis to a handful, if that tiny pockets with no resources. This should have been a mjaor event for these characters, both of them, not just B'Elanna, but neither event saw use beyond here and 'Extreme Risk.'

And the fact that we only see things from the perspective of the senior staff is really troublesome for me - I've stated my displeasure at the emphasis of this series often enough that I'm sure you guys are getting tired of it, but... On multiple occasions we are told that this is a crew that has become a family because of the years they've spent together. Despite that, there is no word about the lives of any character who appears in the opening credits - just that a handful are recieving letters from home. What about people whose friends and family are off dying in the Dominion War? 'No, can't have that - people who watch Voyager don't watch DS9, they won't know what we'd be talking about.' Well, what about the people whose families have moved on? 'Janeway's fiance got married, that's what matters, since we don't know the other people on the ship.' Couldn't we have AT LEAST have seen a little bit with Ensign Wildman and Naomi, involving a letter from Naomi's father? Just a little moment, to indicate that maybe someone on Voyager may not look forward to returning home? 'Viewers tuning in this week wouldn't know who these two are! Best not to worry about it.'

Wow, I think I managed to severely depress myself thinking about the attitudes driving the show...
DGCatAniSiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2009, 01:40 PM   #1461
TheGodBen
Rear Admiral
 
TheGodBen's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

^ I agree that the constant focus on the main characters is a mistake, but Voyager has trouble even giving some of the main characters screen time so I'm just grateful that all the characters (except Shmully who had a whole episode last week) get serviced in this episode.

As for the Maquis, I'm torn between what I wanted to see in regards to that. On the one hand a scene where Chakotay calls together all the Maquis to the mess hall and tells them the news would have been great, but I also liked the personal element of his chat with B'Elanna. More should have come of it, that is a certainty. I can imagine that many of the Maquis crew would have been outraged and would have redoubled their efforts to get home in order to join the fight against the Dominion, and that could have brought back the tension against Janeway's command decisions which should have been present in the earlier seasons. Hell, even Janeway should have had extra motivation to get back considering how badly the war was going for the Federation at that point.
__________________
...so many different suns...
TheGodBen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2009, 09:22 PM   #1462
Frazzled
Commander
 
Frazzled's Avatar
 
Location: The mess hall
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I thought it was pretty silly that Chakotay ended up being so attentive and consoling to Janeway in the final scenes. She'd lost a fiance who she already knew was likely to have moved on, whereas he had just received the devastating news that a lot of his friends and colleagues were wiped out, and he would've been too if he hadn't been flung into the DQ.

The consoling was kinda the wrong way round, she (or someone else) should've been looking after him.
Frazzled is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2009, 10:30 PM   #1463
jefferiestubes8
Commodore
 
Location: New York City
illustrations of holographic "Capt. Proton"

jefferiestubes8 wrote: View Post
I loved the black and white 'The Adventures of Captain Proton' holonovel. Janeway as Queen Arachnia was memorable.
I came across these two illustrations of
holographic "Capt. Proton" rocket and "Fortress of Doom".
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/ga...p-interior.jpg
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/ga...ressofdoom.jpg
jefferiestubes8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2009, 11:24 PM   #1464
The Grim Ghost
Fleet Captain
 
The Grim Ghost's Avatar
 
Location: Thee Olde Spook Shack
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Frazzled wrote: View Post
I thought it was pretty silly that Chakotay ended up being so attentive and consoling to Janeway in the final scenes. She'd lost a fiance who she already knew was likely to have moved on, whereas he had just received the devastating news that a lot of his friends and colleagues were wiped out, and he would've been too if he hadn't been flung into the DQ.

The consoling was kinda the wrong way round, she (or someone else) should've been looking after him.
Wow, good point.
__________________
Life looks better in black and white.
The Grim Ghost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28 2009, 12:23 AM   #1465
TheGodBen
Rear Admiral
 
TheGodBen's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Frazzled wrote: View Post
The consoling was kinda the wrong way round, she (or someone else) should've been looking after him.
I didn't think that at the time, but you're absolutely right. Why that's the sort of news which would normally send a man blowing up random planets for no reason, I'm surprised Chakotay didn't succumb to that urge.


Prey (****½)

I'm beginning to realise that Seven is bringing the sort of conflict to this show that the Maquis should have brought at the beginning. In this episode not only does she constantly question Janeway's orders, but at the end she countermands them. At first I was wary of her, but the gamble of introducing her to the show is paying off.

This is a good way to bring 8472 back into the show, and this is a great use of the Hirogen. I'm a little worried about the softening up of species 8472 because I know where that is going to lead, but in this episode it serves its purpose quite well by being a mechanism for Seven's conflict with Janeway. I'm still not sure why Chakotay refused to kill it just because it was injured, 8472 are powerful killing machines after all, and that's my biggest qualm about the episode.

There's a great sense of tension when 8472 initially enters the ship, and Voyager actually loses for once, this is a very good and entertaining episode, best of the season so far.
__________________
...so many different suns...
TheGodBen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28 2009, 12:38 AM   #1466
startrekwatcher
Rear Admiral
 
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Prey gets three stars from me out of four.

It was a solid script by the much-maligned, and unfairly, Brannon Braga but I didn't think it was exceptional.

I remember seeing the sweeps promo showing an 8472 on the outside of the ship's hull. It definitely piqued my curiosity since I assumed that "Scorpion II" was the last we saw of them. It was definitely clever how Brannon merged the Hirogen story with 8472 in such a plausible and interesting way.

The Hirogen's single-mindedness grated a bit as the episode went on but it played well of Seven's Borg-like single-mindedness to destroy 8472. The Janeway/Seven interaction was very good. Didn't much care for Tom's quip about chasing a mouse.

The episode did a good job with the mood with the power down and gravity off and everyone in a spacesuit as they approached 8472.
startrekwatcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28 2009, 01:01 AM   #1467
The Grim Ghost
Fleet Captain
 
The Grim Ghost's Avatar
 
Location: Thee Olde Spook Shack
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Prey is a great ep. Other than the Nazi two parter I enjoy all of the Hirogen appearances. Tony Todd turns in a nice performance in this one.

And I like earlier rebellious Seven much more than the housebroken later version.
__________________
Life looks better in black and white.
The Grim Ghost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28 2009, 02:36 AM   #1468
kimc
Coffee Mod
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Frazzled wrote: View Post
I thought it was pretty silly that Chakotay ended up being so attentive and consoling to Janeway in the final scenes. She'd lost a fiance who she already knew was likely to have moved on, whereas he had just received the devastating news that a lot of his friends and colleagues were wiped out, and he would've been too if he hadn't been flung into the DQ.

The consoling was kinda the wrong way round, she (or someone else) should've been looking after him.
For all we know he didn't tell her at that point. She obviously knew about it in later episodes though but during "Hunters" we don't see him telling Janeway about it at all which is pretty strange considering she's supposed to be his best friend on the ship. Perhaps the Maquis just wanted to grieve their fallen comrades privately for a bit before sharing the news? Or it could have just been an oversight by the writers...

As for the letter from Mark it was obvious she was upset about it. Sure, she knew intellectually that he would have moved on but she had been in love with and engaged to the guy and emotionally it would be easy to hang onto the hope that he hadn't moved on.
__________________
I'm certainly less inclined to bash Voyager now, it is not nearly as bad a show as many people make it out to be. - TheGodBen

Avatar by B'Elanna.
kimc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28 2009, 04:47 AM   #1469
Jaespol
Captain
 
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

startrekwatcher wrote: View Post
Prey gets three stars from me out of four.

It was a solid script by the much-maligned, and unfairly, Brannon Braga but I didn't think it was exceptional.
Looking at his "contribution" as a whole, I don't really think any maligning of Braga is unfair.
"Prey" was made great by its conclusion, finally someone made a sensible and logical conclusion. This episode was a bit like the entire first season of Enterprise where the crew were acting like complete retards and T'Pol was the only one that ever had reasonable suggestions.
Jaespol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28 2009, 05:49 AM   #1470
Tachyon
Fleet Captain
 
Tachyon's Avatar
 
Location: Finland
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Prey gets ***½ from me. Species 8472 work well in this episode unlike In The Flesh, which is an episode I don't like very much at all.
__________________
Avatar by Belanna.
Tachyon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:39 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.