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Old May 21 2009, 11:20 PM   #31
Bernard Guignard
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Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

Looking good so far keep it up
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Old May 21 2009, 11:43 PM   #32
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Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

Agreed.
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Old May 22 2009, 12:24 AM   #33
Cary L. Brown
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Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

A suggestion... take it or leave it...

At this point, with the majority of the decks already laid in, I'd seriously consider putting some "rings" around the periphery of the deck structures you've created. The secondary hull is, after all, circular in every cross-section (albeit, I'm not 100% convinced that every circle shares the same axis... anyone able to confirm that as the case or not?).

So... putting a "shell" around these decks at this point (ideally a transparent one, or at least one that has huge holes you can see through!) seems like the obvious next step to me.

Just what I'd do... it's your project, have fun!
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Old May 22 2009, 01:10 AM   #34
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Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

Nice work so far.
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Old May 22 2009, 01:35 AM   #35
CTM
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Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
A suggestion... take it or leave it...

At this point, with the majority of the decks already laid in, I'd seriously consider putting some "rings" around the periphery of the deck structures you've created. The secondary hull is, after all, circular in every cross-section (albeit, I'm not 100% convinced that every circle shares the same axis... anyone able to confirm that as the case or not?).

So... putting a "shell" around these decks at this point (ideally a transparent one, or at least one that has huge holes you can see through!) seems like the obvious next step to me.

Just what I'd do... it's your project, have fun!
I'm actually about halfway through doing just that right now (I'm referring to that as "framing the hull"). I'm on my second attempt to get it right (I wasn't pleased with how the first iteration of it was proceeding, so I abandoned that effort)
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Old May 22 2009, 05:29 AM   #36
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Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

So, while the last picture renders, I will post my progress for the evening.
I set out to frame the secondary hull. I first started by trying to extrapolate from the plan decks a circle at 2m intervals along the length of the hull. I wound up with wildly varying hull contours, so I abandoned that attempt in favor of selecting a custom extrapolation from the contours of Q and R decks (Q deck is a little above centerline, R deck is a bit below centerline). Once I had the hull contour (which I took to be the inside edge of the hull), I created slices at 2m intervals running perpendicular to the axis of the hull, so I had a series of rings spaced 2m apart from front to rear. I added supports for each deck, and incorporated them into each ring. I only got as far as the aft end of the shuttle elevators, but I am happy with the progress so far.

As I expected, quite a bit of the structure on the decks is either too far inside the hull, or too far outside the hull. Once I have the hull cross-section framing completed, I will reposition what I can to be inside the hull (or remove it all together). Once that is done, I will go back and add the fore-aft framing. The exterior hull is far more easily generated from the original contours I used to generate the frames.

First, the wireframe fore and aft:



And the renders:

As you can see, Main Engineering is a tight fit. I may end up dropping the whole deck a bit to make things fit better.
The last picture finished rendering while I typed.

I will almost certainly wind up cutting out some of the "slack space" between decks that are in the current design. Most decks I can reduce by almost 1/3 and still fit what has to be there.
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Old May 22 2009, 04:19 PM   #37
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Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

WOW! Beautiful work! Watching this with great anticipation. I tried doing something similar w/ Virtus WalkThrough back in 1995, but the technology wasn't there yet. Only managed to get the Bridge done w/ the "B" & "C" decks and main engineering. You've definitely gone leaps and bounds beyond my efforts and it looks fantastic. Will this eventually be interactive (working turbolifts, doors, collision detection, etc.) for a full-experience walk-thru?
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Old May 22 2009, 07:09 PM   #38
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Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

Wow, so how easy is it going to be to slice out the parts that don't fit?
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Old May 22 2009, 07:10 PM   #39
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Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

WOW! These new renders are making me salivate!

Nicely done.
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Old May 25 2009, 04:41 AM   #40
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Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
WOW! Beautiful work! Watching this with great anticipation. I tried doing something similar w/ Virtus WalkThrough back in 1995, but the technology wasn't there yet. Only managed to get the Bridge done w/ the "B" & "C" decks and main engineering. You've definitely gone leaps and bounds beyond my efforts and it looks fantastic. Will this eventually be interactive (working turbolifts, doors, collision detection, etc.) for a full-experience walk-thru?
I may be able to build the actual models, but I have a LONG way to go towards learning Rendering and Animation - though I do have a friend who is willing to do some high-quality texture mapping / rendering. I'll be sending him the model when I finish the secondary hull - probably sometime next month.

Praetor wrote: View Post
Wow, so how easy is it going to be to slice out the parts that don't fit?
Blisteringly easy. I've been out of town for a few days, but got back to the ship tonight. I have the bottom half of the hull done already, reference the pics farther down.

Firebird wrote: View Post
WOW! These new renders are making me salivate!

Nicely done.
Thank you. Now, if I can only manage to import this to a high-quality rendering program....

Since I have been out of town since my last post, I didn't get to see reactions until tonight. I have made some progress, and have divided the hull into manageable slices. I wound up shortening T and U decks by about 1/3 each, making them fit much better into the hull. The downside is that the Botanical Garden is not as tall as I originally had hoped it would be.

I have lain out a partial rib-plan for each deck (extrapolated from the ring-ribs on a 2-m spacing). For visibility sake, I only am showing the starboard ribs, and the starboard hull. I did decide to do away with the pool on T-deck, and am making that into a standard Gym.

I have had to toss out some of the lifeboats. Those that remain, the shafts extend to the hull, where "blow out" panels will allow them to exit the ship. I note that in doing the support framing around the intermix chamber I wound up with that on the wrong layer, so that rib is not visible on this wireframe, but I caught that in time to include it in the render that follows:

Several of the corridors did not fit well orthogonally, so I wound up setting them on angles. It is not evident from this image, but the forward most corridors are NOT running straight fore-aft.
I'll probably get the remainder of the secondary hull fitting done in the next day or so, and then I'll be in position to finish the framing. I will then go back and install the windows/portholes and the docking ports. Before I finish the uppermost decks and framing I will have to build out the neck and nacelle pylons - so that I can put in the requisite structures to support them.
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Old May 26 2009, 03:52 AM   #41
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Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

Ok, finished most of the fitting today. I need to build out the neck in order to see if Main Engineering will actually fit where it is, at present that is a "NO"

In the following shots, take note that the rib structures are only rings and supports within the rings, there is no connectivity between rings except at the intermix chamber and in the "cutout" below the shuttle bay. I also have not done anything to define the shuttle-bay doors - something I will need to do shortly.

Mainly, I have a series of "beauty shots" of the hull, inside and out.







And finally one I didn't post yesterday - a closeup of the inside of the cargo bay on the fitted decks.
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Old May 26 2009, 07:14 PM   #42
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Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

Awesome!
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Old May 26 2009, 08:43 PM   #43
Cary L. Brown
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Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

You're definitely going to have to build up the "torpedo superstructure" part of the neck before you can really figure out Engineering. I'm sure that the ceiling lines will be different than what was seen in the set, but not dramatically so, I suspect, and I'm pretty sure that the majority of it will fit reasonably well (the major exception being the forward corridor, of course, but you already know about that!)

On thing I find myself wondering about... and which I suspect might require Engineering to be at least a deck lower than is generally assumed... is the intersection of the nacelles. It's very clear that the intention was for the "vertical runs" from the horizontal engine core to go straight up into the pylons. I wonder... what level (in your model) do these lines intersect at? With a CAD model, it's pretty easy to determine that sort of thing... and that would be central to my placement, were it me doing this project. I suspect that the various people who worked on this may have gotten it wrong... Kimble, Strategic Designs, even Andrew may have made a little "snafu" there... hard to say for sure without doing the 3-dimensional stuff.

If you end up having angled "vertical runs" that pass out into space, or require a "jog"... ANYTHING other than "running up the centerlines of the pylons... there's a problem, as far as I'm concerned.
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Old May 26 2009, 09:45 PM   #44
CTM
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Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
You're definitely going to have to build up the "torpedo superstructure" part of the neck before you can really figure out Engineering. I'm sure that the ceiling lines will be different than what was seen in the set, but not dramatically so, I suspect, and I'm pretty sure that the majority of it will fit reasonably well (the major exception being the forward corridor, of course, but you already know about that!)

On thing I find myself wondering about... and which I suspect might require Engineering to be at least a deck lower than is generally assumed... is the intersection of the nacelles. It's very clear that the intention was for the "vertical runs" from the horizontal engine core to go straight up into the pylons. I wonder... what level (in your model) do these lines intersect at? With a CAD model, it's pretty easy to determine that sort of thing... and that would be central to my placement, were it me doing this project. I suspect that the various people who worked on this may have gotten it wrong... Kimble, Strategic Designs, even Andrew may have made a little "snafu" there... hard to say for sure without doing the 3-dimensional stuff.

If you end up having angled "vertical runs" that pass out into space, or require a "jog"... ANYTHING other than "running up the centerlines of the pylons... there's a problem, as far as I'm concerned.
I agree, and after I do the shuttle-bay doors, I plan to address that. I am not going to add substantially more detail to the hull until I have the neck built, and the spacing figured out for the Primary Hull (as the underside of the nacelles are directly in line with the top of the Primary Hull). As I have said previously, I'm sort of taking the backwards approach to this - going from the inside out. It invites all sorts of odd challenges, but gives a perspective that might not often be covered by other methods.
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Old May 31 2009, 05:15 AM   #45
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Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

Just to reassure folks, I have not abandoned this project, a few little things like "work" and "life" got in the way for the past week or so. I started working on the Photorp deck, and it is going to be a TIGHT fit. Here are the wireframes as I have them so far.



It is not entirely clear, but I do have the front end fairly well worked out, just not many nurnies or greebles yet. The worst part was the complex curve for the overhead hull. While it is not shown, the ribs to support it are cut from the same mathematical curve, so they line up flush with the inside of the hull. The large "drums" are for placing/cutting/building the docking ports. Maybe I'll have something ready to render by the end of the weekend.
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