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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old May 19 2009, 05:17 PM   #16
EliyahuQeoni
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Re: Star Trek V: The Final Frontier enhanced effects reel

QuasarVM wrote: View Post



As far as I am concerned, there is nothing sacred about the original FX in STV. As I mentioned before, the staging of the original FX was horrible!

Why keep it the same?

All I can say is, I wouldn't...
Ditto. The quality of theoriginal effects is poor, but what really hurts the movie is the poor staging and composition of those FX. If the staging had been better I think the sub par quality would be overlooked.
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Old May 19 2009, 05:50 PM   #17
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Re: Star Trek V: The Final Frontier enhanced effects reel

EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post
QuasarVM wrote: View Post



As far as I am concerned, there is nothing sacred about the original FX in STV. As I mentioned before, the staging of the original FX was horrible!

Why keep it the same?

All I can say is, I wouldn't...
Ditto. The quality of theoriginal effects is poor, but what really hurts the movie is the poor staging and composition of those FX. If the staging had been better I think the sub par quality would be overlooked.
It needs a dramatic facelift...and some thought put into all those shots.

I'd re-storyboard all of them!
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Old May 19 2009, 05:52 PM   #18
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Re: Star Trek V: The Final Frontier enhanced effects reel

It was a real pleasure to see the NCC-1701-A back in action.

The continuous shot from the exterior, through the window, focusing in on Spock in the "Captain's Wheel" room (for want of a better description)... nicely done.

I was listening to the new Blu Ray commentary for Star Trek V just the other night. It would be nice if the original title sequence plans are realised at some point. Something similiar has been done since, in Contact for instance... From what I've learned, it was a non stop shot from Sybok laughing, up through the clouds, out into space, across vast distances, passing planets in various systems, then into our own, to settle on Earth, descending to see Kirk climbing Yosemite.

So sad that Shatner's original vision, got pruned down each time to a reuse of past starfields and previous ILM footage...
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Old May 19 2009, 07:11 PM   #19
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Re: Star Trek V: The Final Frontier enhanced effects reel

QuasarVM wrote: View Post
Penhall99 wrote: View Post
QuasarVM wrote: View Post
I understand what's out there YouTube is only a "previs version", but: overall...not much better than what was there originally.

I don't understand why they didn't change the setup on some of those shots. That shot of the BoP firing on the Enterprise is just a horribly staged shot. Why not change it to have the BoP flying up behind the Enterprise and have the Enterprise jump into warp leaving the BoP behind? I'd still have the close up shot, but it would be much more dynamic to show the Enterprise leaving the photon torpedo AND the BoP in the dust...

And those shuttlecraft shots were always horribly staged as well.

I guess what I am saying is -- why remain slavishly loyal to the way the shots were staged in the film as released?

The problem with Bran Ferren's FX were not just the composites, lighting and miniature work...but he basic staging of the shots!

And why does Nimbus III look like the Mutara moon when Nimbus III has an atmosphere and is clearly Earth-like?
I agree that they could definitely change things up, but I think it looks pretty damned good, and much better than what was in the film. The shuttlecraft entering the Enterprise, Spock in the viewport window, the Enterprise entering the barrier (and encountering turbulence)...Not everything was exactly the same as in the movie.

The guy doing this described some other shots, and they also differ from the angles and stuff originally in the film. For example, at the end when the Bird of Prey fires on the Entrprise, we will actually see BOTH ships in the shot, with the torpedo actually hitting the Enterprise.

The zoom in on the window is a good case of taking a boring shot -- I think it was just a starfield; no ship originally (if I remember correctly) -- and making it more dynamic. Kudos to him for improving that shot!

The new shots inside the great barrier are nice, but I would cut them faster...still, a nice change from the original shots and I like where he's going with the new stuff there.

I just think he could re-storyboard some of those shots to improve them. The originals are nothing "holy" that need to be preserved -- believe me...

I have to say, that's one of the things I really liked about TOS-R is that they were not afraid to re-stage shots.

They didn't do that as much with the ST:TMP Director's Cut, but that really didn't need all that much -- as opposed to STV. STV could use a complete overhaul.

Even that shot of the Enterprise against the moon...I would completely overhaul that shot. It always looked like a model hanging on a wire in someone's room slowly spinning on the wire. Why go and do replacement CGI shot that looks almost EXACTLY the same? I know...there's a reflection in the window, but that can be replaced too...

Anyway, I am not trying to tear down the guys work -- on the contrary, I applaud him for undertaking this effort!

Just trying to offer some constructive criticism...
Yeah, I understand what you're saying. Maybe if Shatner gets the chance, he'll really change things up.

With the huge success of the new movie and Trek being popular again, I'm praying Paramount will let him revisit the movie. He approached them a few years ago about doing a Director's Cut and they turned him down...Maybe this time they'll let him do it.
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Old May 19 2009, 11:51 PM   #20
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Re: Star Trek V: The Final Frontier enhanced effects reel

Bravo---thanks for posting that. I've wanted to see how far he'd gotten for a long time.

A huge improvement, but I'd agree that he should restage the BOP attack shot and a couple of others. it wasn't just the execution but the entire concept that was bad in most cases.

The pull into Spock was directly from the script and it was great to see.

Imagine what a pro company could do with this project. I bet they could even make the rock creature work.

They actuually DID film a lot of the Kirk vs Rockman stuff, but abandoned it when they couldn't make the suit work. But now CGI could be added to the shots of Shatner either alone or in place of the suited stunt guy.
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Old May 20 2009, 02:35 AM   #21
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Re: Star Trek V: The Final Frontier enhanced effects reel

I'm glad to see that this guy's continuing with this project, it's been a while since I've heard anything on this.

Kudos!
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Old May 20 2009, 04:32 AM   #22
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Re: Star Trek V: The Final Frontier enhanced effects reel

Ethros wrote: View Post
That was awesome. Excellent work. I'd love to see that done and released for real
Same here!!!
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Old May 20 2009, 04:46 AM   #23
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Re: Star Trek V: The Final Frontier enhanced effects reel

I remember the issue of MACWORLD that showed frames from the previsualization for that FLY INTO THE ENTERPRISE WINDOW shot, and was thinking it would have been almost impossible to pull off well back then (shoot, they had something like that for the beginning of BLADE RUNNER and couldn't get it right, and those folks had a lot more on the ball!)

The barrier stuff looked really good to me, and I assume that the Enterprise stuff will improve drastically with time (I have a real hard time buying off on most CG starships, with the exception of SOLARIS and some bg FC ships and of course the Scott Gammans TOS E - the clips he has up against MOONRAKER music, that is -- which looks almost like the old model to me.)

I think the key to making the shuttle shots work is to lose that silly light thing on the underside ... it always looked bad, and it probably always will.
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Old May 20 2009, 05:11 PM   #24
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Re: Star Trek V: The Final Frontier enhanced effects reel

That was nicely done.

I agree with the others, that the Shuttle-enters-the-shuttlebay and BoP shots need to be restaged, but the barrier shots were well done.

Joe, medium
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Old May 20 2009, 05:57 PM   #25
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Re: Star Trek V: The Final Frontier enhanced effects reel

What's funny (and sad) is that the amatuer used the same angles as the 'pro' and beat them at every turn.

But I agree that that they should restage most of the shots.

Except the pull-in to Spock as that was exactly how Shatner planned that shot.

But in a way it's good that they reused the angles from the original because if they ever re-do the FX for home video, they'll come up with all-different angles anyway.

So an amatuers version of the original's shots is okay as an interim step.

I doubt they'll re-release the movie as part of a 'Director's set' without redoing the FX.

It's been released in theatrical version on Blu-ray and it has Shatner's commentary & the deleted scenes, so any future director's set release would have to have something new from the director.
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Old May 20 2009, 06:39 PM   #26
QuasarVM
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Re: Star Trek V: The Final Frontier enhanced effects reel

trevanian wrote: View Post
I remember the issue of MACWORLD that showed frames from the previsualization for that FLY INTO THE ENTERPRISE WINDOW shot, and was thinking it would have been almost impossible to pull off well back then (shoot, they had something like that for the beginning of BLADE RUNNER and couldn't get it right, and those folks had a lot more on the ball!)

The barrier stuff looked really good to me, and I assume that the Enterprise stuff will improve drastically with time (I have a real hard time buying off on most CG starships, with the exception of SOLARIS and some bg FC ships and of course the Scott Gammans TOS E - the clips he has up against MOONRAKER music, that is -- which looks almost like the old model to me.)

I think the key to making the shuttle shots work is to lose that silly light thing on the underside ... it always looked bad, and it probably always will.
One of the best shots I've seen like that was in Silent Running when the camera pulls back from the Valley Forge and you see Lowell in the window. That was done in 1970 or so and it still looks great!

I like the shot in Empire Strikes Back...the pullback at the end...

They could have done a shot like that in STV...well, maybe not Bran Ferren...
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Old May 20 2009, 06:41 PM   #27
QuasarVM
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Re: Star Trek V: The Final Frontier enhanced effects reel

Shatmandu wrote: View Post
That was nicely done.

I agree with the others, that the Shuttle-enters-the-shuttlebay and BoP shots need to be restaged, but the barrier shots were well done.

Joe, medium

When I say re-staged, I was talking about re-staging I meant make them better than what they had in the film when it was released...

The pull-in to Spock should stay...definitely...

That was a good shot! Obviously, the execution could be better (as the person working on it admits)...
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Old May 21 2009, 07:56 AM   #28
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Re: Star Trek V: The Final Frontier enhanced effects reel

Of course, that shot zooming in on Spocko through the window just further illustrates that the ports as seen from inside the room utterly don't match the ones on the model!
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Old May 21 2009, 04:17 PM   #29
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Re: Star Trek V: The Final Frontier enhanced effects reel

DS9Sega wrote: View Post
Of course, that shot zooming in on Spocko through the window just further illustrates that the ports as seen from inside the room utterly don't match the ones on the model!
True. I think it was just a redress of the TNG Ten-Forward set.
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Old May 21 2009, 04:54 PM   #30
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Re: Star Trek V: The Final Frontier enhanced effects reel

DS9Sega wrote: View Post
Of course, that shot zooming in on Spocko through the window just further illustrates that the ports as seen from inside the room utterly don't match the ones on the model!

True!
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