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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
Excellent 706 62.70%
Above Average 213 18.92%
Average 84 7.46%
Below Average 46 4.09%
Poor 77 6.84%
Voters: 1126. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 21 2009, 05:04 AM   #1951
TJinPgh
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Aike wrote: View Post
^Weird. It seems like everyone who is either a thief or a cheapskate dislikes the movie. Wonder why?
Insults aside (and, I'm assuming that I fall into the "cheapskate" category IYHO), had I actually liked the movie I would have bought a ticket and seen it again. Then again, had it been anything other than a movie with "Star Trek" in the title, I probably wouldn't have seen it the first time... gratis or otherwise.
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Old May 21 2009, 05:16 AM   #1952
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

I enjoyed the movie, i really want to see it again just to be able to give a good critique of what i felt worked, and what i felt didn't.

Anyone got 10 bucks I can borrow?
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Old May 21 2009, 05:21 AM   #1953
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Very disappointed. Pike, Spock and Chekov were pretty good, McCoy was OK, but the story was too simple and I didn't like Kirk's insubordination (they have a ready room so that there aren't debates on the bridge). Disappointed in Ryder's cameo and Nimoy was hit-and-miss; he should have obviously recognized that Kirk was probably too young to be good friends with him. Nero's ship was cool but his motivation was weak given that his world could have been destroyed without Spock accidentally contributing. What was he doing for 25 years? I would have preferred that the Federation actually did become somewhat corrupt and reprehensible, and perhaps that he had regular time travel ability (the ENT forum suggestion that he was Future Guy).
I also wonder if this film wiped out the other timeline; both the alternate-universes and the single-changed-universe theories are possible. I certainly would have preferred it to have been an ordinary prequel in the existing timeline, just having the Enterprise be an established ship rather than on its maiden voyage.
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Old May 21 2009, 06:20 AM   #1954
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

TJinPgh, Kirk got the chair in recognition of 2 things:
1) he saved the Earth. That's a biggie.
2) When everyone in the command stuff wanted to do one thing, Kirk followed his gut instinct and said, "No, we need to do this instead", and he was proved to be right. In a commander, that is more valuable than all the spit and polish and by the rules you can name.

It was also pointed out by Bob Orci in the Q&A thread that the time between the destruction of the Narada and the ceremony at Star Fleet where Kirk is commissioned is a little vague, so he could have completed whatever he needed to, with the recommendation of Spock and Pike, to become Captain. That's how I'm reading it, I'm fine with that.
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Old May 21 2009, 07:13 AM   #1955
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Australis wrote: View Post
TJinPgh, Kirk got the chair in recognition of 2 things:
1) he saved the Earth. That's a biggie.
If that's the biggie, then you prove my point. Kirk didn't save the Earth. Spock did.

2) When everyone in the command stuff wanted to do one thing, Kirk followed his gut instinct and said, "No, we need to do this instead", and he was proved to be right. In a commander, that is more valuable than all the spit and polish and by the rules you can name.
The fact that Spock was able to make his plan work in no way suggests that doing what he had been told to do would have failed.

It was also pointed out by Bob Orci in the Q&A thread that the time between the destruction of the Narada and the ceremony at Star Fleet where Kirk is commissioned is a little vague, so he could have completed whatever he needed to, with the recommendation of Spock and Pike, to become Captain. That's how I'm reading it, I'm fine with that.
Read: "We wrote a story that's full of holes so whatever you can come up with to get this thing to make sense works for us."

To each his own and I'm glad you enjoyed it. And, if that were the only example of weak writing in the movie I might go along with it. But, it's not.

Ultimately, though, as weak as I believe the story was, the biggest flaw with the movie continues to be the message. The unfortunate part of it is that it's a flaw that could have easily been corrected by simply changing the ending of the film. The rest of the film could have remained the same.
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Old May 21 2009, 07:46 AM   #1956
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

TJinPgh wrote: View Post
Australis wrote: View Post
TJinPgh, Kirk got the chair in recognition of 2 things:
1) he saved the Earth. That's a biggie.
If that's the biggie, then you prove my point. Kirk didn't save the Earth. Spock did.

2) When everyone in the command stuff wanted to do one thing, Kirk followed his gut instinct and said, "No, we need to do this instead", and he was proved to be right. In a commander, that is more valuable than all the spit and polish and by the rules you can name.
The fact that Spock was able to make his plan work in no way suggests that doing what he had been told to do would have failed.

It was also pointed out by Bob Orci in the Q&A thread that the time between the destruction of the Narada and the ceremony at Star Fleet where Kirk is commissioned is a little vague, so he could have completed whatever he needed to, with the recommendation of Spock and Pike, to become Captain. That's how I'm reading it, I'm fine with that.
Read: "We wrote a story that's full of holes so whatever you can come up with to get this thing to make sense works for us."

To each his own and I'm glad you enjoyed it. And, if that were the only example of weak writing in the movie I might go along with it. But, it's not.

Ultimately, though, as weak as I believe the story was, the biggest flaw with the movie continues to be the message. The unfortunate part of it is that it's a flaw that could have easily been corrected by simply changing the ending of the film. The rest of the film could have remained the same.
You're making a lot of sense. We're having this same discussion in The Neutral Zone, but everyone is being far more egalitarian. Everyone's viewpoint is accepted there, and no one is derided for thinking in the minority, or being different. Check it out. Seriously, we do need a lot of good thoughtful people there.

J.
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Old May 21 2009, 07:49 AM   #1957
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Everyone's viewpoint is accepted there, and no one is derided for thinking in the minority, or being different.
You're making me cry.

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Seriously, we do need a lot of good thoughtful people there.
So if you get three intelligent Trek XI posters to go to TNZ, that'll raise the number of smart people there to two, right?
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Old May 21 2009, 07:52 AM   #1958
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Gep Malakai wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
Everyone's viewpoint is accepted there, and no one is derided for thinking in the minority, or being different.
You're making me cry.

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Seriously, we do need a lot of good thoughtful people there.
So if you get three intelligent Trek XI posters to go to TNZ, that'll raise the number of smart people there to two, right?
There are a plethora of intelligent posters in The Neutral Zone. It is with great consideration that I always make the offer.

J.
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Old May 21 2009, 08:04 AM   #1959
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

13 days after the release of the movie and being a trek fan from 1980 i'm more dissapointed with the fans than with the movie itself. I don't understand why so many fans liked this movie. Are the impressive visual effects and meaningless action the only things that remained from trek? And nobody noticed the holes in the plot? Where is the famous roddenberry's vision? Now all that we want is a lot of people fighting each other and starships blowing up? abrams made a movie that is more like starship troopers than trek. And the fans like it???!!! I can only hope that this will not be the death of star trek as we knew it allthough i'm afraid that this what will happen.
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Old May 21 2009, 08:07 AM   #1960
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

karatasiospa wrote: View Post
13 days after the release of the movie and being a trek fan from 1980 i'm more dissapointed with the fans than with the movie itself. I don't understand why so many fans liked this movie. Are the impressive visual effects and meaningless action the only things that remained from trek? And nobody noticed the holes in the plot? Where is the famous roddenberry's vision? Now all that we want is a lot of people fighting each other and starships blowing up? abrams made a movie that is more like starship troopers than trek. And the fans like it???!!! I can only hope that this will not be the death of star trek as we knew it allthough i'm afraid that this what will happen.
Come join our Trek XI thread in TNZ. We're discussing it right now. I just made the rebuttal that perhaps it is unwise for fans to jump the gun in calling this a great movie, and while some disagree with me, we're making headway.

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Old May 21 2009, 09:11 AM   #1961
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

I for one am looking forward to further debate with some of the posters here, down at our special threads in The Neutral Zone. It should be interesting.

Gep, don't be so cynical! You know full well some of the posters would be welcomed down there.
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Old May 21 2009, 09:13 AM   #1962
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Australis wrote: View Post
I for one am looking forward to further debate with some of the posters here, down at our special threads in The Neutral Zone. It should be interesting.

Gep, don't be so cynical! You know full well some of the posters would be welcomed down there.
It would definitely make for a more fun and lively discussion! Civility can be fun. It's the enjoyment from seeing how others view the Star Trek movie. A little faith goes a long way.


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Old May 21 2009, 01:09 PM   #1963
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

I do find it rather ironic that the TNZ Trek movie thread is where CIVIL discourse is happening. (and apart from the last six weeks or so, 90% of my posts have been in TNZ over the past 6 years, so I know just how unusual civility can be in there)
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Old May 21 2009, 01:11 PM   #1964
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

TJinPgh wrote: View Post

I realize as much as anybody that even the fans of Trek had grown tired of reset buttons and such. But, they are as much a part of Trek lore as the characters themselves. The moment you introduce time travel into this film you essentially accept that time is going to get mucked up and it will be up to the crew of the ship to fix it.

By mid film, three characters in the film know how the timeline is supposed to go... Nero, Old Spock, and Kirk (by virtue of Spock's mind meld), yet neither of the two good guys thinks it's important enough to fix, which, they could have done with a couple of small changes at the end.

Overall, I think the movie had potential to not only do what Abrams wanted (which it obviously has) but retain some assemblance of the traditional as well. It didn't need to be the either-or situation that it became.

So, ultimately, I guess if I cared more about great visuals and decent action than I did about a story that makes sense and has an actual moral message consistent with the franchise's history, I would probably like this movie. Otherwise, it's pretty lacking.

In the end, I'm glad I didn't pay for it.
but prime spock has now seen that messing with time isnt as easy as it seems .
he has the whole selar mess to know this.
and one thing year of hell showed the fans is that sometimes trying to
"fix" time just makes things worse.

even in city things might not have been totally the same as they were before.
for instance a person died that was not supposed to have died.

one could go back trying to fix things and potentially make things even worse.
to save his mother and his planet would prime spock be justified even if it ment the loss of even more planets??
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Old May 21 2009, 02:20 PM   #1965
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

suarezguy wrote: View Post
Very disappointed. Pike, Spock and Chekov were pretty good, McCoy was OK, but the story was too simple and I didn't like Kirk's insubordination (they have a ready room so that there aren't debates on the bridge).
I think Kirk's insubordination worked with the new Kirk character, the one that has grown up a different life than the one we saw in TOS. Plus the ready room concept was more of a TNG thing, I remember Bones getting down right insubordinate with Spock a number of times in TOS.

Disappointed in Ryder's cameo and Nimoy was hit-and-miss; he should have obviously recognized that Kirk was probably too young to be good friends with him.
To be honest, I liked what I saw of Ryder, but her time on screen was so short I don't know if I could make a solid opinion one way or the other. To me Cross's performance was the weakest of all.

Nero's ship was cool but his motivation was weak given that his world could have been destroyed without Spock accidentally contributing. What was he doing for 25 years? I would have preferred that the Federation actually did become somewhat corrupt and reprehensible, and perhaps that he had regular time travel ability (the ENT forum suggestion that he was Future Guy).
While I agree that the Nero motivation was weak I think it served its purpose of advancing the plot to set up the the new timeline. I sort of wished that they left the scene in where he was captured by the Klingons for 25 years to explain the gap. I'm not really down with the future guy idea, tough it might have worked.

I also wonder if this film wiped out the other timeline; both the alternate-universes and the single-changed-universe theories are possible. I certainly would have preferred it to have been an ordinary prequel in the existing timeline, just having the Enterprise be an established ship rather than on its maiden voyage.
The prime timeline still exists, that's the beauty of this movie. Creating a strict prequel would have caused to many problems and would have unfairly chained the filmmakers hands when it came to what they could do and canon. This way everyone wins.

karatasiospa wrote: View Post
13 days after the release of the movie and being a trek fan from 1980 i'm more dissapointed with the fans than with the movie itself. I don't understand why so many fans liked this movie. Are the impressive visual effects and meaningless action the only things that remained from trek? And nobody noticed the holes in the plot? Where is the famous roddenberry's vision? Now all that we want is a lot of people fighting each other and starships blowing up? abrams made a movie that is more like starship troopers than trek. And the fans like it???!!! I can only hope that this will not be the death of star trek as we knew it allthough i'm afraid that this what will happen.
Sheesh, I think you missed a lot of the movie if you are disappointed in the fans liking it. Can you honestly tell me that no Trek movie up to this point hasn't had plot holes? That they all had Rodenberry's vision? I say no my good sir or madam. Look at DS9 and the Dominion war, tons of ships getting blown up. TNG and the Borg, including FC, kind of bleak right? Fighting and action has always been part of Trek, how could anyone have missed that?

To me this movie captures the spirit of Trek better than all of the TNG movies, and better than most of the TOS movies. The sequel will probably show it better because this movie had to use valuable time setting up the crew and circumstances.
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