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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old May 18 2009, 05:16 PM   #1336
kimc
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
Scientific Method (*)

This episode is a bizarre mess of an ensemble show. I like it when Voyager makes use of many characters rather than just one or two, but this episode is not the way to do it because there is no core to it, the show morphs from one form to another and the pieces don't fit.

The first 15 minutes of the show is focused on Tom and B'Elanna's relationship, but then they almost fall off the face of the episode as the story shifts to Chakotay and Neelix who have strange medical ailments. Then they completely disappear as the episode decides to follow Ken Shmully and Seven, but then that gets dropped in favour of Janeway and her reckless driving. Then the episode comes full circle with a scene about Tom and B'Elanna, which fails as a bookend because I don't think either one of them was involved in final 20 minutes of the show.

And lets not forget Janeway's solution to the problem; fly the ship between 2 pulsars with a 95% probability of complete destruction. Of course all that happens is that the hull turns a little red and there is no casualties because this is Voyager, a show where you can do the stupidest fucking thing possible and still end up on top.

The scenes about Tom and B'Elanna at the beginning are interesting, the rest of the episode is a disjointed mess. The first below average episode of the season, and I'm using this as an excuse to remove that shame from my signature.
Hm, I'm going to have to totally disagree with you on this one. I think the show does a good job of illustrating what happens when one species thinks they're superior enough to experiment on another one "for the greater good." After all, weren't these the same arguments given for the Nazi medical experiments in the death camps? Unlike the Jews the Voyager crew was in a position to fight back.

Also, the scenes where Seven could see what was happening but was not allowed to show it were as creepy as anything else you would see in a "Halloween episode".

As for Janeway flying the ship between two pulsars you try being experimented on for weeks then watching one of your crew die and see what lengths you would go through to make it all end one way or the other. That seemed real to me.
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Old May 18 2009, 05:21 PM   #1337
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I loved this one. I loved the way the redshirt dying was treated with the horror every death amongst such a small crew should have been, and I loved Janeway in this one particularly when she succeeded in frightening away the horrible scientist woman. Yes it was probably irrational - some of the crew would've survived the experiments whereas there was a 19 out of 20 chance they wouldn't survive flying into the pulsars - but I preferred seeing her doing something proactive to rid the ship of those aliens.
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Old May 18 2009, 05:25 PM   #1338
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Frazzled wrote: View Post
Yes it was probably irrational - some of the crew would've survived the experiments whereas there was a 19 out of 20 chance they wouldn't survive flying into the pulsars - but I preferred seeing her doing something proactive to rid the ship of those aliens.
Well she was drugged at the time. Those who criticize her for her "irrationality" in this episode tend to gloss over that fact, imo. I agree it was nice to see some proactiveness after watching them all get experimented on for most of the episode.
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Old May 18 2009, 06:17 PM   #1339
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I complained a lot about Janeway's inconsistancy, especially in Season 5, but I really liked her in Scientific Method. Of course she was irrational. She was under a lot of stress and she was pretty much a lab rat. I would have done the same thing under that situation.
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Old May 18 2009, 07:08 PM   #1340
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
Praetor wrote: View Post
We now return you to your regular thread.
Not just yet.
May I play? I finally saw the movie last night...



And now, back to our regular programming.

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Old May 18 2009, 07:45 PM   #1341
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

kimc wrote: View Post
As for Janeway flying the ship between two pulsars you try being experimented on for weeks then watching one of your crew die and see what lengths you would go through to make it all end one way or the other. That seemed real to me.
My problem isn't Janeway making the decision because that made sense given the circumstances, my problem is the lack of consequences. They had a 1 in 20 chance of survival yet Voyager gets through the ordeal with no damage and no casualties, and I call BS on that. It was built up as such a dangerous thing that the aliens were willing to give up and leave the ship (and half of them died when their ship blew up) and it is so ridiculous that after all the build-up absolutely nothing happened.

JustKate wrote: View Post
I don't think you can say that TMP was mooshed into too short a time-frame.

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Old May 18 2009, 07:53 PM   #1342
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

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Old May 18 2009, 08:01 PM   #1343
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
I don't think you can say that TMP was mooshed into too short a time-frame.
Um, no. God forbid.

And I agree with you on this:


Tomalak wrote: View Post
Could be the Prophets, or the Preservers, or even the Q!
Or the Blue Fairy. Ooh, sorry, wrong genre.



Back atcha!

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Old May 18 2009, 11:16 PM   #1344
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
kimc wrote: View Post
As for Janeway flying the ship between two pulsars you try being experimented on for weeks then watching one of your crew die and see what lengths you would go through to make it all end one way or the other. That seemed real to me.
My problem isn't Janeway making the decision because that made sense given the circumstances, my problem is the lack of consequences. They had a 1 in 20 chance of survival yet Voyager gets through the ordeal with no damage and no casualties, and I call BS on that. It was built up as such a dangerous thing that the aliens were willing to give up and leave the ship (and half of them died when their ship blew up) and it is so ridiculous that after all the build-up absolutely nothing happened.
But "beating the odds" is supposed to be a Trek captain staple!
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Old May 19 2009, 12:21 AM   #1345
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I actually kinda liked "Scientific Method" even if parts were silly. I'd give it **
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Old May 19 2009, 12:41 AM   #1346
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I think it was this episode that saw the only outing for Seven of Nine's brown outfit in the same style of the original silver one. Maybe this episode was produced before "The Raven", or there weren't enough of the new costume yet, so they just died the silver ones as short-term cover?

Chakotay's "ageing" make-up looked cool, though he looked more like a fossilised skull than an eighty year old man.

"Year of Hell" is up next. Exciting!
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Old May 19 2009, 12:49 AM   #1347
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

kimc wrote: View Post
But "beating the odds" is supposed to be a Trek captain staple!
Perhaps.


Year of Hell, Part 1 (****)


I know what some of you are probably thinking, I like this episode because the ship gets blowed up real good. Well that is only part of it, I also happen to like the story because I don't remember Trek doing a time-travel episode of this type before and it is a good story. Watching history change with a big shockwave is fun.

My main issue with this episode is that it is doomed to be a reset-button ending, the fact that the story focuses on a history-altering ship assures it. After the first part originally aired on TV a friend of mine read a magazine which explained how the second part would end and tried to taunt me with it, but I said "Let me guess, Voyager rams into the time-ship and the whole thing never happened" and he gave me a semi-shocked look. So there you have it, the Voyager writers were working on the same wave-lenght as a 12 year old.

The other problem I have is the ending where the crew splits up because I don't understand why. The Krenim Imperium has been made weak by the last time-wave and Voyager's main concern is to get as far away from Red Foreman's time-ship as they possibly can, so why bother sending the crew away in escape pods which surely would only have thrusters? It barely made sense earlier in the episode, it makes absolutely no sense here.

A fun episode, one which shows a Voyager we would never get properly acquainted with, you just have to stave off that nagging voice in the back of your head which warns you that none of this is going to make a damn bit of difference.
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Old May 19 2009, 03:48 AM   #1348
Nightdiamond
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Voyager had some classic interesting episodes. I like the one with the robots and their war, or the crazy self thinking missle BE' lana had to stop for example.

Seska was an interesting character, but it was hard to understand her motivation; she wanted to get back to the alpha quandrant as soon as possible, no matter what it took, yet left the ship and stayed with the Kazon.

And then spent most of that time, scheming to with them to get Voyager, so they could use it to conquer the other Kazon territories or something. How does that get her home any sooner?

However, I think Voyager "jumped the shark" with too many time travel episodes, picking up the new passengers, defeating the Borg too much...

It's still fun late time viewing though..
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Old May 19 2009, 04:46 AM   #1349
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
kimc wrote: View Post
But "beating the odds" is supposed to be a Trek captain staple!
Perhaps.


you just have to stave off that nagging voice in the back of your head which warns you that none of this is going to make a damn bit of difference.
True, but to be fair it made quite a bit of difference to Annorax!
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Old May 19 2009, 05:18 AM   #1350
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Year of Hell

I liked this episode, particularly Chakotay being sucked in to Annorax's way of thinking and Tom having to give him a verbal slap in the face. The only thing that annoys me is at the end when Janeway is about to crash into the time ship. We see the determined look on her face, cut to an external view of the ship for two seconds, and then back to her saying "time's up" - which is so clearly a different take because her hair is styled (or 'messed up') differently. Bugs me every time.
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