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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old May 18 2009, 05:10 AM   #31
I am not Spock
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

Kirk1980 wrote: View Post
I think I'm about the youngest you can be and be exposed to Trek at a relatively young age (6 years old for me) and not find it dated/cheesy. I'm 29 and the mid-80's weren't exactly ground-breaking on TV for special effects.

So when I saw TOS in pre-TNG era, I didn't think at all about the 60's era effects.

Then again, 60's era shows were popular channel fillers in this area, at least....Monkees, I Dream of Jeannie, Bewitched, Hogan's Heroes, etc.
26, loved TOS since the age of 5.
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Old May 18 2009, 05:12 AM   #32
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

I like the so called 'cheesy' (high tech for the era) effects in TOS. You have no imagination if you cannot get past this, and see the show for its great stories.
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Old May 18 2009, 04:17 PM   #33
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

In fairness all of us respond to things on a visual level. The trick is being able to assess something fairly and be able to look beyond perceived shortcomings.

I don't think you can fairly assess TOS without appreciating the context of when it was made. Yes, it's not as polished and detailed as today, but that doesn't mean that's how it was perceived then and that it was deliberately substandard.

This is a mistake I think a lot of folks make, and largely unintentionally. I can look at the 1933 King Kong and make many of the same comments. But when I appreciate what they were able to do with what they had at the time then I immediately see it in a wholly different light.
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Old May 18 2009, 04:31 PM   #34
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
^^ I disagree, I think the FX are just the surface of what people think about when dismissing the show as cheesy. I'd be shocked if the number of people actually converted to TOS by the remastering itself was significant.
I agree. I don't think there are too many people who became fans, because of the updated effects. You can hear people dismiss TOS as cheesy all the time on this board, not only because of the effects, but because of the acting and music. Which, personally, I never really understood. I love these aspects of TOS.
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Old May 18 2009, 04:43 PM   #35
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

^^ Odd, because I find a lot of the writing in acting in contemporary Trek far more cheesy than most of anything TOS did.
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Old May 18 2009, 05:00 PM   #36
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

Warped9 wrote: View Post
^^ Odd, because I find a lot of the writing in acting in contemporary Trek far more cheesy than most of anything TOS did.
No offense, Warped9, but since I see you doing that all the time I have to ask: Why do you take every opportunity to say something negative about the other Trek series? Even when they're not even the subject of the discussion. I can see how it might be appropriate to bring them up in this discussion, but I've seen you slam the other series in many other threads. It's as if you can only express your love for The Original Series by stating how much you hate everything that came after it? It's as if The Original Series is only so good to you, because all the other Trek series are shit. Seems odd and unnecessary to me, since there are many fans of the other series around here and most of the time it comes across as an attack.

Again, this is not supposed to be offensive. I know your opinion and you're entitled to express it whenever you want. It's just something I always wondered about. This is just an honest inquiry.
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Old May 18 2009, 08:08 PM   #37
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

^^ Call it a reflex action.

It mostly because when I hear the "cheesy" adjective thrown around I often see it from fans of the later shows. If they're going to throw mud, well...
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Old May 18 2009, 08:29 PM   #38
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

Brutal Strudel wrote: View Post
You know who's really cheesy? Shakespeare. I've taught Caesar, R & J, MacBeth and studied countless more and man, was his stuff full of broad drama. And bad production values? There was no set design to speak of and the women were played by boys, for Christ's sake!
And unrealistic dialogue!

I can effortlessly forgive TOS for its sets and effects--and the costumes, particularly the uniforms, or at least the men's are imo actually much better looking than TNG's pyjamas.

At the same time, TOS doesn't take its own drama seriously half the time, and indulges in pure cheese. Why portray realistic or even plausible reactions to things like your chief engineering possessed by Jack the Ripper and forced to kill young women, or the extinction of an entire solar system by your "son, the doctor", when you can undermine an otherwise gripping dramas for nothing more than a cheap laugh?

I could see that putting someone off the show.
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Old May 18 2009, 08:35 PM   #39
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

The "cheesy" criticism has always irked me. I also get really frustrated when I even read professional reviewers/columnists who dismiss TOS with its "cardboard sets" and "ships on strings".

TOS represented state of the art "technique" for set design and optical effects. The only difference between a TOS visual and, say, a visual from "2001" is not the technique but the amount of time and money they could spend.

TOS FX were mostly wooden models in on some kind of stand, in front of blue-screen, with backgrounds optically matted in. Exotic backgrounds were beautiful matte paintings, and sets were primarily painted plywood over 2X4 frames, with electrical wiring to make it look "powered".

All the big budget SF movies of from the 50s all the way to the 80s used this exact same technology(admittedly, SW bumped it up a notch with computerized motion control, but that didn't happen until 10 years after TOS).

Again, the only difference was time and money. If the TOS producers could have spent the money, and had the time, TOS FX would have looked as good as 2001.

There was no cardboard, no ships on fishing wire, etc etc.

The visual aesthetic represented an artistic choice by the various filmakers involved, informed by the styles of the times.

It's interesting, that 20 years after TNG, they are often criticized for being bland.

I guess it's all a matter of opinion. I just wish so called "professionals" were careful enough to do the research before they make such statements in columns and reviews, that might actually affect someone's choice who hasn't seen for themself yet.

Sorry for the rant, this one just gets under my skin....
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Old May 18 2009, 10:20 PM   #40
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

Geckothan wrote: View Post
People who dismiss TV shows purely because of their production values and effects are idiotic. The first time I saw TOS (after seeing all of TNG), the visuals didn't even bother me, they fit in just fine. There's a few things that make me cringe, like Enterprise phaser fire, the planet killer, Gorn costume and a handful of others, but they don't really detract from the experience unless you're shallow and can't watch anything that isn't full of LOL CGI AND EXPLOSIONS.
There's only one thing that made me cringe with TOS...as a kid and now as an "adult"...just one ....and that was the damn puppet strings in Catspaw...other than that I never noticed anything adverse about TOS....until I signed into the TrekBBS that is....
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Old June 10 2013, 04:46 AM   #41
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

many dr who fans prefer classic who instead of new dr who which has much worse specal effects and is much more cheesy then star trek original series. One of the reasons the original series is my favorite star trek show is because of the sets and the acting but mostly the story and the characters. Also the sets they used are still better then the green screens they use today. Lastly anyone who says young people cant enjoy star trek because of the effects are wrong because I am 14 years old and started watching it a year ago on netflix and was blown away by it.
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Old June 10 2013, 05:41 AM   #42
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

Old school... but yeah, I'm glad to hear it!
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Old June 10 2013, 06:21 AM   #43
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

Basil wrote: View Post
. . . TOS premiered in the latter half of the 60s, when the Golden Age of TV, where it likely would have prospered, was all but winding itself down, being overtaken by camp and what would become the blown-dry siliness of so much of the 70s.
Blow-dried silliness? Why, what on earth do you mean?




Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
Some shows are very "of their time" and Trek is one of those. The mini-skirts, the bee-hives, the men's hair, the fashions, the blocky buttons and big computers and so on. I myself like that, it's sort of like an extra layer of stylization, like it's the future but through the eyes of the 60's so it's like exploring two worlds.

Not everyone cares for that though, many people are just very in the moment. A lot of people aren't even interested in anything imaginative, calling any such efforts cheesy, let alone with an extra dated element. Like how BSG is vaunted for its "realism" because everything looks like the 2000's instead of some imagined future.
I thought BSG was hailed for it's realisim because everything was depressing and bleak to the point of wanting to kill yourself?
To me, the stylized visual minimalism of Trek TOS, while certainly of its time, looks less out-of-date than the gritty, gray and grungy look that just screams "early 2000s."

tmosler wrote: View Post
. . . Lastly anyone who says young people cant enjoy star trek because of the effects are wrong because I am 14 years old and started watching it a year ago on netflix and was blown away by it.
You are wise beyond your years, my young friend.
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Old June 10 2013, 06:29 AM   #44
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

Old Dr. Who is cheesy?

Compare Sara's first farewell with any modern Who over-the-top/full orchestra "In case you weren't feeling anything THIS IS HOW YOU SHOULD FEEEEEEEEEL!!!" moment.

Ninja Please.
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Old June 10 2013, 12:49 PM   #45
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

Please do not resurrect 4 year old threads.

If there's something on-topic you'd like to say, start a new thread.

Thanks.






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