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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
Excellent 706 62.70%
Above Average 213 18.92%
Average 84 7.46%
Below Average 46 4.09%
Poor 77 6.84%
Voters: 1126. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 17 2009, 12:03 PM   #1876
ST-One
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Neopeius wrote: View Post
I just call it as I see it. Why couldn't GIANT SHIP squash the little, slow shuttlecraft? Why couldn't GIANT SHIP destroy the Kelvin before it hit. And if the answer is that it didn't matter if the Kelvin hit or not, why couldn't the GIANT SHIP squash the little, slow shuttlecraft?
The Kelvin shot down those torpedoes.
She was breaking apart as she made her way to the Narada.
It's all very clear in the high resolution version shown on a cinema screen. That low res pirated version though...

Neopeius wrote: View Post
And Captain Robau, genius that he is, why didn't he order "WARP AWAY" before "ARM WEAPONS"?
That first salvo crippled the Kelvin's warp drive.

Neopeius wrote: View Post
For that matter, why didn't Pike?
Remember? After she de-warped the Enterprise had a near-collision with the debris of another ship, which damaged one of her warp-nacelles. Hence the Enterprise only traveling only at warp 3 and 4 for the rest of the film.

Neopeius wrote: View Post
Actually, I think I know the reason why. Federation ships in NuTrek can't actually *move*. This is why, after the six ships crewed by cadets (!) were destroyed, their hulks were all still in one damned place for the Enterprise to dodge around when it got out of hyperspace.


Neopeius wrote: View Post
Stupid movie.
No.
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Old May 17 2009, 03:00 PM   #1877
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

startrekwatcher wrote: View Post
I'm not really surprised regarding the use of coincidences given Abrams' role.

A lot of shows these days like to include Fate or a hand of God(BSG, Lost).

The issue I have with it in this film is that it isn't handled nearly as well as on Lost or Heroes in season one, for instance, where characters cross paths and are brought together in more organic plausible ways that don't feel contrived. Here you could definitely feel the writers' hands at work.
coincidences are the very stuff of storytelling.

what bothers me more is the deal about the Red Matter getting to destroy Romulus before Spock was able to do anything about it. how? did no one chart its path and speed?
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Old May 17 2009, 03:42 PM   #1878
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

indranee wrote: View Post
startrekwatcher wrote: View Post
I'm not really surprised regarding the use of coincidences given Abrams' role.

A lot of shows these days like to include Fate or a hand of God(BSG, Lost).

The issue I have with it in this film is that it isn't handled nearly as well as on Lost or Heroes in season one, for instance, where characters cross paths and are brought together in more organic plausible ways that don't feel contrived. Here you could definitely feel the writers' hands at work.
coincidences are the very stuff of storytelling.

what bothers me more is the deal about the Red Matter getting to destroy Romulus before Spock was able to do anything about it. how? did no one chart its path and speed?
Well, he's old. Old people often drive too slowly
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Old May 17 2009, 04:43 PM   #1879
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

ST-One wrote: View Post
Neopeius wrote: View Post
I just call it as I see it. Why couldn't GIANT SHIP squash the little, slow shuttlecraft? Why couldn't GIANT SHIP destroy the Kelvin before it hit. And if the answer is that it didn't matter if the Kelvin hit or not, why couldn't the GIANT SHIP squash the little, slow shuttlecraft?
She was breaking apart as she made her way to the Narada.
It's all very clear in the high resolution version shown on a cinema screen. That low res pirated version though...
I know she was *breaking* apart. I'm saying it's inconsistent that the Narada could so utterly pwn the Kelvin at first and not afterwards. And why couldn't the Narada.. you know.. dodge the Kelvin?

SIXTY SECONDS!



That first salvo crippled the Kelvin's warp drive.
Sure. But Robau gave the order to fight before the first salvo hit the Kelvin.
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Old May 17 2009, 04:48 PM   #1880
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

1) maybe because the Narada couldn't move?

2) why flee when you think you CAN fight?
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Old May 17 2009, 04:49 PM   #1881
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Neopeius wrote: View Post
I know she was *breaking* apart. I'm saying it's inconsistent that the Narada could so utterly pwn the Kelvin at first and not afterwards. And why couldn't the Narada.. you know.. dodge the Kelvin?

SIXTY SECONDS!
Well, weapon's fire always had the strength of plot in Trek.
That's why George-boy had to stay at the controls (that and to provide cover for the shuttles).


Neopeius wrote: View Post
Sure. But Robau gave the order to fight before the first salvo hit the Kelvin.
Precautionary measure in the event that the unknown ship turns out to be hostile.
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Old May 17 2009, 05:28 PM   #1882
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

i still think part of this could go back to the narada had just come from the singularity as i noted earlier.
they might not have had warp drive for instance.
or had been up to full power.
a ship that massive might not be that nimble on partially powered thrusters.
plus wasnt nero's crew like him miners.
their anger and thrist for revenge isnt the greatest combination for making quick military decisions.
nero and his crew represent passion unbridled and made form through revenge.
they lack not just logic but disciplined thinking.
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Old May 17 2009, 06:03 PM   #1883
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Since others are repeating themselves, then so will I.

Nitpicking the Narada/Kelvin scene is pointless.

The whole point of that scene was to establish George Kirk as the heroic father who scarificed himself to save others, including our beloved JTK. That's it!

Either you get that, you miss that point, or just enjoy nitpicking.

The minutiae of the details are easily exaplained just by speculating and is pointless unless it's enjoyable.

Last edited by Bobatiel; May 17 2009 at 07:54 PM.
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Old May 17 2009, 06:07 PM   #1884
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Neopeius wrote: View Post
I know she was *breaking* apart. I'm saying it's inconsistent that the Narada could so utterly pwn the Kelvin at first and not afterwards. And why couldn't the Narada.. you know.. dodge the Kelvin?
Okay, I'l play the speculation game.

The Kelvin was described as heavily armed with advanced weaponry.

Maybe, just maybe they could have damaged the Narada thereby limiting its capabilities.

Maybe, just maybe, going through the black hole also affected the Narada.

Last edited by Bobatiel; May 17 2009 at 07:53 PM.
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Old May 17 2009, 08:06 PM   #1885
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

ST-One wrote: View Post

Precautionary measure in the event that the unknown ship turns out to be hostile.
A better one would be "RUN!"

Borne out in the fact that Pike made the exact same mistake.

Anyway, I totally get the point of the Kelvin scenes, and the point of the other scenes in that movie. It'd be hard *not* to get the points in the paint-by-numbers, brainless writing style NuTrek was done in.

I'm saying there are plenty of ways to achieve the same goal which would have been better, more consistent, more intelligent.

You think I'm wrong. That's cool. So I guess we're done.
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Old May 17 2009, 09:08 PM   #1886
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

I have mixed feelings about this movie. The scenes that are great, are really great. But some aspects of the film are so annoying, it was impossible for me to ignore them and just enjoy the film. So, 10/10 for parts of it, 2/10 for others.

The first scene is the best. That sucked me in emotionally, and I cared for George even though I'd only been introduced to him minutes earlier. Wondering why they hadn't named their child in all the months they'd known he was on the way removed me a little, but it wasn't a big deal. I expect some people do wait until their baby is born before thinking up a name. Unfortunately, that was one of the milder 'grievances' I had when it came to the script.

Some of the story points were hard to get my head around, and still are. The black holes, while caused by the same red matter, have different characteristics just to satisfy story development. Can you survive entering one and come out at a different time, or will you get crushed and disappear like the planet? If they start in the middle of an object, is surrounding matter sucked in instantly, or does it generate some hazy cloud and leave the object as it is for ages?

The capabilities of Earth and Vulcan were practically nonexistent by the look of it. The Vulcans, who are ahead of humans technologically speaking, weren't aware that the planet was being destroyed? Were their scanners malfunctioning? Not one ship to defend the home planet incase anyone wanted to attack? Same with Earth - didn't they have weapons to fire up and destroy the mining arm? We have that capability even in our time.

Do the turbolifts travel at warp speed in this new Trek? Spock goes from Engineering to the Bridge in about three seconds, even though they're at opposite ends of the ship! The look of Engineering didn't impress me either. Most of the ship is slick, clean and white, except for that section, which looks like a dirty old power plant. This isn't the USS Titanic.

Out of all the places Kirk could have been jettisoned to, he ends up on the same planet as old Spock, but not only that, he ends up in the same patch of land as old Spock, and even manages to run into the exact same cave as old Spock! I know the story needs to move along, but that's too much of a coincidence to be believable. Especially when we discover Spock knew all about the outpost nearby, and had no idea Kirk would be in the way. Why hadn't he made his way there earlier?

The new characters need to grow on me some more. For someone holding back his emotions, young Spock does smirk a lot through this, even in the serious scenes. I could go on with more things like this, but I'll stop and talk about the good side of it. Yes, there are good parts!

The special effects were impressive, and the music was quite good. There were some good funny moments. The idea to go from breathing only to atmospheric sounds on the drop scene was a great idea. I managed to spot a cameo from a Stargate Atlantis actor on the second viewing too, so I was pleased with myself for that. It helped reading the 'Countdown' comic books leading up to the film, as it gave the whole backstory to Nero - something I may have felt was lacking if I'd only seen him in the movie.

There was the potential for me to be bowled over like most others who've seen this, but mainly because some of the script needed a serious ironing out, I find it hard to give it a top score. Still, it was better than Nemesis, so things might have taken a turn for the best in the Trek franchise.


***Can't get rid of that bugging size tag***

[I can. - M']

Last edited by M'Sharak; May 18 2009 at 03:42 AM.
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Old May 17 2009, 10:05 PM   #1887
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Bobatiel wrote: View Post
Since others are repeating themselves, then so will I.

Nitpicking the Narada/Kelvin scene is pointless.

The whole point of that scene was to establish George Kirk as the heroic father who scarificed himself to save others, including our beloved JTK. That's it!

Either you get that, you miss that point, or just enjoy nitpicking.

The minutiae of the details are easily exaplained just by speculating and is pointless unless it's enjoyable.
con·trived (kn-trvd)adj. Obviously planned or calculated; not spontaneous or natural; labored: a novel with a contrived ending.

Let us not defend mediocrity with too much vigor. It happened because the story they had needed it to happen, and no other reason. Not the best way to write, but I guess it worked.
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Old May 17 2009, 11:01 PM   #1888
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Don't know what causes those SIZE tags - something about editors I think, if you're writing your post outside of the BBS then use Notepad or something like that.

Anyway, I've edited your post for you

serotonin_wraith wrote: View Post
I have mixed feelings about this movie. The scenes that are great, are really great. But some aspects of the film are so annoying, it was impossible for me to ignore them and just enjoy the film. So, 10/10 for parts of it, 2/10 for others.

The first scene is the best. That sucked me in emotionally, and I cared for George even though I'd only been introduced to him minutes earlier. Wondering why they hadn't named their child in all the months they'd known he was on the way removed me a little, but it wasn't a big deal. I expect some people do wait until their baby is born before thinking up a name. Unfortunately, that was one of the milder 'grievances' I had when it came to the script.

Some of the story points were hard to get my head around, and still are. The black holes, while caused by the same red matter, have different characteristics just to satisfy story development. Can you survive entering one and come out at a different time, or will you get crushed and disappear like the planet? If they start in the middle of an object, is surrounding matter sucked in instantly, or does it generate some hazy cloud and leave the object as it is for ages?

The capabilities of Earth and Vulcan were practically nonexistent by the look of it. The Vulcans, who are ahead of humans technologically speaking, weren't aware that the planet was being destroyed? Were their scanners malfunctioning? Not one ship to defend the home planet incase anyone wanted to attack? Same with Earth - didn't they have weapons to fire up and destroy the mining arm? We have that capability even in our time.

Do the turbolifts travel at warp speed in this new Trek? Spock goes from Engineering to the Bridge in about three seconds, even though they're at opposite ends of the ship! The look of Engineering didn't impress me either. Most of the ship is slick, clean and white, except for that section, which looks like a dirty old power plant. This isn't the USS Titanic.

Out of all the places Kirk could have been jettisoned to, he ends up on the same planet as old Spock, but not only that, he ends up in the same patch of land as old Spock, and even manages to run into the exact same cave as old Spock! I know the story needs to move along, but that's too much of a coincidence to be believable. Especially when we discover Spock knew all about the outpost nearby, and had no idea Kirk would be in the way. Why hadn't he made his way there earlier?

The new characters need to grow on me some more. For someone holding back his emotions, young Spock does smirk a lot through this, even in the serious scenes. I could go on with more things like this, but I'll stop and talk about the good side of it. Yes, there are good parts!

The special effects were impressive, and the music was quite good. There were some good funny moments. The idea to go from breathing only to atmospheric sounds on the drop scene was a great idea. I managed to spot a cameo from a Stargate Atlantis actor on the second viewing too, so I was pleased with myself for that. It helped reading the 'Countdown' comic books leading up to the film, as it gave the whole backstory to Nero - something I may have felt was lacking if I'd only seen him in the movie.

There was the potential for me to be bowled over like most others who've seen this, but mainly because some of the script needed a serious ironing out, I find it hard to give it a top score. Still, it was better than Nemesis, so things might have taken a turn for the best in the Trek franchise.



***Can't get rid of that bugging size tag***

And now that I've been able to read what you wrote - the problems you have are the same ones a lot of people have had with the movie. In fact, I think most people would agree these are problems and our level of enjoyment stems from how much we can ignore them.
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Old May 17 2009, 11:35 PM   #1889
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Neopeius wrote: View Post
ST-One wrote: View Post
Neopeius wrote: View Post
Stupid movie.
You disagree with the characterization or just the fact that I thought the movie was dumb?
The fact you didn't "get it".
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Old May 17 2009, 11:50 PM   #1890
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

We finally saw Star Trek today for this first time. I've been avoiding spoilers like crazy.

Overall, I enjoyed it very much. It was very exciting, moved along nicely, and had great action and f/x.

I found the villian to be completely non-compelling. It was sort of like Shinzon and the Xindi joined forces. I haven't read this whole thread yet, but I'll bet purists are shitting themselves over more time travel and the timeline reboot....



I was really confused about where Nero was between the time he attacked the Kelvin and the time he attacked Vulcan. I probably just missed something obvious, but I didn't quite get that part. Spock's story of being drawn into the black hole with him and then getting dumped on the ice planet didn't make sense to me either. I will most definitely watch it a second time and see if I can wrap my brain around it all.

I'm glad the movie is doing well enough to consider sequels. I'll be interested to see if Abrams can get "the heart of it" right. I'm not sure he's there yet, but it was a promising start.

Oh, and BRING BACK THE GREEN CHICK!!!



I was going to give it an "Above Average", but what the hell. It was great fun despite it's shortcomings. I gave it an "Excellent".
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