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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old May 16 2009, 09:32 PM   #16
Warped9
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
This is an argument many use, from the casual viewer, to the non-viewer and even by some Trek fans who've never tried Trek.

They ding it over the cheap sets, the poor SFX, the papier-mache alien costumes but most of that seems to come from casual, glancing, viewing.

Sure, you stick in an episode like, say, "Shore Leave" (an episode I love) or Arena (another great one) it came maybe come across like that.

But then you've got episodes of really great, awesome, story telling without the cheese topping (Balance of Terror, CotEoF). Watching these episodes it's almost incredible to think this sort of strory-telling came from a 60s sci-fi show and it's what stands Trek apart from shows of much greater cheese from the same era -like Lost in Space.

TOS is an awesome, great and fantastic series. Yeah, maybe to "stand" it one has to get past the production values (which for the time were first-rate but, yeah, come across "cheap" today) but that shouldn't be a problem at all.

TOS is a fantastic series and anyone not wanting to give it a chance because they saw a clip of Kirk fighting a foam-masked alien in a Bill and Ted movie is a moron.
Agreed. I feel that many of those who label TOS as "cheesy" often cannot see past the polished production standards we're accustomed to today. They seem not able to appreciate the era in which TOS was produced and what f/x resource were available then.

When folks make this criticism I usually dismiss thim with little consideration as their words are empty.
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Old May 17 2009, 01:22 AM   #17
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

Some shows are very "of their time" and Trek is one of those. The mini-skirts, the bee-hives, the men's hair, the fashions, the blocky buttons and big computers and so on. I myself like that, it's sort of like an extra layer of stylization, like it's the future but through the eyes of the 60's so it's like exploring two worlds.

Not everyone cares for that though, many people are just very in the moment. A lot of people aren't even interested in anything imaginative, calling any such efforts cheesy, let alone with an extra dated element. Like how BSG is vaunted for its "realism" because everything looks like the 2000's instead of some imagined future.
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Old May 17 2009, 02:15 AM   #18
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
Some shows are very "of their time" and Trek is one of those. The mini-skirts, the bee-hives, the men's hair, the fashions, the blocky buttons and big computers and so on. I myself like that, it's sort of like an extra layer of stylization, like it's the future but through the eyes of the 60's so it's like exploring two worlds.

Not everyone cares for that though, many people are just very in the moment. A lot of people aren't even interested in anything imaginative, calling any such efforts cheesy, let alone with an extra dated element. Like how BSG is vaunted for its "realism" because everything looks like the 2000's instead of some imagined future.
I thought BSG was hailed for it's realisim because everything was depressing and bleak to the point of wanting to kill yourself?

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Old May 17 2009, 02:28 AM   #19
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
Some shows are very "of their time" and Trek is one of those. The mini-skirts, the bee-hives, the men's hair, the fashions, the blocky buttons and big computers and so on. I myself like that, it's sort of like an extra layer of stylization, like it's the future but through the eyes of the 60's so it's like exploring two worlds.

Not everyone cares for that though, many people are just very in the moment. A lot of people aren't even interested in anything imaginative, calling any such efforts cheesy, let alone with an extra dated element. Like how BSG is vaunted for its "realism" because everything looks like the 2000's instead of some imagined future.
I thought BSG was hailed for it's realisim because everything was depressing and bleak to the point of wanting to kill yourself?

Yeah, I worded that badly, it's a contributing factor not the only reason, and one I've seen singled out for praise as not being cheesy.
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Old May 17 2009, 03:10 AM   #20
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

You know who's really cheesy? Shakespeare. I've taught Caesar, R & J, MacBeth and studied countless more and man, was his stuff full of broad drama. And bad production values? There was no set design to speak of and the women were played by boys, for Christ's sake!

What's that? You say Shakespeare was product of his time and as such represents the pinnacle of his particular artform. Oh. Hmmmm. Okay.
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Old May 17 2009, 03:39 AM   #21
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

^I love Shakespeare, and I love TOS. One of my favourite television programmes of all time. And I'm 26. I saw TOS at 5 years old, and fell in love.

You need an open mind, and a love of theatrical dialogue to get past a lot of TOS's production values and 'cheesy' effects (they were actually some of the highest budget effects available at the time, weren't they?), if you're under 20, that is.

I'm still struck at how ahead of the time the show was. The stories are miles ahead of a lot of TV shows these days.
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Old May 17 2009, 04:03 AM   #22
Mr. Adventure
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

I was thinking about it a little bit and I suppose if you were to compare TV now to TV when I was growing up 30 years ago some things have obviously changed.

One thing is that TV seems more homogenous, if you want to watch cartoons you watch Cartoon Network or Nick, you watch the History Channel and if you're lucky PBS for historical shows, you watch AMC or TCM for classic movies, TV Land for old TV shows and so on. When I was growing up there were only a handful of channels so they showed a more diverse lineup.

The other thing is there is so much more content now. Why would anyone need to watch TOS, when there's TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT with a more modern bent. There's been 40 years of shows more modern than Trek to compete for airtime, not to mention all the alternative media. Again when I was growing up there'd be Our Gang/Little Rascals, Three Stooges, Bugs Bunny, I Love Lucy, King Kong, Godzilla etc etc being shown with all the other programming. There was just more exposure to stuff before our time.

I think the two of these together may explain why with the new TV landscape just aren't as tolerant of older stuff.
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Old May 17 2009, 04:12 AM   #23
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
The other thing is there is so much more content now. Why would anyone need to watch TOS, when there's TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT with a more modern bent.
"Cause most of the modern stuff sucks.
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Old May 17 2009, 04:29 AM   #24
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

The other thing is there is so much more content now. Why would anyone need to watch TOS, when there's TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT with a more modern bent.
The more things change, the more they remain the same. TOS writing is so much better than most of the other shows and the shows have redeeming qualities. While I like some of the things in Trek since the mid 80s are forgettable.
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Old May 17 2009, 04:36 AM   #25
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

When I was younger and first getting into Star Trek (TNG) I found it hard to watch TOS reruns. Not only where the Saturday afternoon syndication runs inconvenient for me to watch but, sigh, I did have a hard time with the "dated" production values and cinematography techniques.

I wish I could go back in time and smack myself.
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Old May 17 2009, 04:51 AM   #26
Dusty Ayres
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
When I was younger and first getting into Star Trek (TNG) I found it hard to watch TOS reruns. Not only where the Saturday afternoon syndication runs inconvenient for me to watch but, sigh, I did have a hard time with the "dated" production values and cinematography techniques.

I wish I could go back in time and smack myself.
Howzabout you go and smack some of the other people your age who also call TOS cheesy?
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Old May 17 2009, 05:53 AM   #27
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

I think I'm about the youngest you can be and be exposed to Trek at a relatively young age (6 years old for me) and not find it dated/cheesy. I'm 29 and the mid-80's weren't exactly ground-breaking on TV for special effects.

So when I saw TOS in pre-TNG era, I didn't think at all about the 60's era effects.

Then again, 60's era shows were popular channel fillers in this area, at least....Monkees, I Dream of Jeannie, Bewitched, Hogan's Heroes, etc.
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Old May 17 2009, 07:49 AM   #28
Nerdius Maximus
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

I agree, this is a real thorn in my side. I can't stand how all of a sudden anything old is "cheesy" and needs to be improved upon. Sure, TOS had it's share of dumb moments, but chalk those up to bad writing on those particular eps. If you can't enjoy something because the visual effects aren't up to today's "standards" then you have no imagination whatsoever. On a related note, I can't stand it when I ask someone how a movie was, and they say "The special effects were really good!" Hey, that's great, but effects are icing on the cake.
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Old May 17 2009, 08:54 AM   #29
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

Yeah, this is one of the reasons why I'm actually glad they did the remastered versions. With the updated optical effects and some of the goofs fixed (wire removal, etc), more people actually give this show a chance.

I've always loved TOS. Even as a kid, I thought the vintage effects were pretty cool. I've always enjoyed the sets, costumes, props, music...Its just a fun and cool show.

Its a TV classic that has endured for over 40 years.
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Old May 17 2009, 03:13 PM   #30
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Re: Star Trek [TOS] is Cheesy!

^^ I disagree, I think the FX are just the surface of what people think about when dismissing the show as cheesy. I'd be shocked if the number of people actually converted to TOS by the remastering itself was significant.
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