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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old May 13 2009, 09:39 PM   #46
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

I agree - "Frame of Mind" and "Progress" are both pretty good, but for different reasons. I might have given the edge to "Progress" if only because "Frame of Mind" is a bit gimmicky. Even if "Progress" is another Bajoran episode.
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Old May 14 2009, 02:53 PM   #47
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Week 19: (Ending 05.16.93)
TNG: Suspicions (Airdate 05.10.93)
DS9: If Wishes Were Horses (Airdate 05.16.93)

Well, at least Crusher got something do this week. Meh, I dunno what it is, but Suspicions is just so incredibly dull. I never get into the Murder Mystery because, well, I just never get interested in the metawhas'it shielding or the people involved in it. Maybe Crusher wasn't the best choice to be a focal point for the story, but whatever.

Does this mean IWWH is the better episode? Ugh, as much as it pains me to say it, but I can at least say I was entertained by portions of it, and it ended with a very pro-Trek idealistic exchange between Sisko and Bokai. Unfortunately, station-jeopardy plot was overdone -does anyone really believe it was in danger when it has escaped immanent destruction twice this season already? I'd rather have more goofy imagination shenanigans like Submissive Dax () than people on fire. (and you have to wonder if ANYONE figured that baseball would go on to become such a signifcant prop!)

So, it looks like in another battle of the Meh Episodes, DS9 wins again. It seems to have better Meh Episodes.

Weekly Winner
DS9

Next Week:
TNG - Rightful Heir
DS9 - The Forsaken
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Old May 15 2009, 05:03 AM   #48
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

I don't know, I liked "Suspicions" if only because there was a mystery element. I always thought "IWWH" was a little silly.
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Old May 15 2009, 01:10 PM   #49
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Praetor wrote: View Post
I don't know, I liked "Suspicions" if only because there was a mystery element. I always thought "IWWH" was a little silly.
Yeah, it could go either way, to be honest. Unfortunately, the murder mystery does nothing for me. And let's face it: Crusher delivering a spinning kick is about as silly as 'gunji jackdaws'.

Week 20: (Ending 05.23.93)
TNG: Rightful Heir (Airdate 05.17.93)
DS9: The Forsaken (Airdate 05.23.93)

It's another TNG Event Episode, where something occurs that has massive repercussions! ...or at least you'd think would have, but I'm not judging these episodes with future hindsight.

Yeah, the whole Kahless-klone seems like a waste after the fact, but at the time, this appeared to be a major deal. Ultimately though, it's a show about faith of belief, which is treated admirably considering Trek often skirted the topic up to that point in favor of sci-fi stuff.

An episode featuring Lwaxana Troi can't compare, even if it was one of her better outings. Nice Odo moments, but The Forsaken's small scope makes it feel inconsiquential. It's just not an Event episode, unlike Rightful Heir. Dang, maybe that's been DS9's problem throughout S1: a major derth of Event Episodes compared to TNG's S6.

Weekly Winner
TNG

Next Week:
TNG - Second Chances
DS9 - Dramatis Personae
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Old May 15 2009, 04:37 PM   #50
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

I have to agree. Although I like Lwaxana, and in particular the way Odo reacted to her, I always felt her introduction to DS9 felt a little forced.
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Old May 15 2009, 08:57 PM   #51
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Praetor wrote: View Post
I have to agree. Although I like Lwaxana, and in particular the way Odo reacted to her, I always felt her introduction to DS9 felt a little forced.
The first one wasn't that off - a handful of ambassadors are on the station, even if there's no particular reason for there to be a Betazoid ambassador. It's her next two appearances that seem odd - 'Fascination' and 'Muse' are real stretches, Muse especially - wouldn't Picard have made a better choice? I mean he's done the whole 'save Lwaxana from a suitor' before, he has experience.
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Old May 16 2009, 12:20 AM   #52
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

^Agreed.
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Old May 19 2009, 05:09 PM   #53
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Week 21: (Ending 05.30.93)
TNG: Second Chances (Airdate 05.24.93)
DS9: Dramatis Personae (Airdate 05.30.93)

You have to hand it to TNG this week: they didn't take the easy way out. It would have been so simple to let Tom Riker be killed in a moment of heroism or whatnot, and return everything back to status quo. I have to admit it really irks me that Tom didn't seem that mentally unstable for a person alone for 8 years. Not only does he have his wits about him, but he also is able to handle the fact he was duplicated and having to deal with Troi in the process (with mixed results). Granted, this episode isn't about psychological trauma (and we only just had an episode about such); rather what-ifs. I think they did a reasonable job of it here. (and, unlike the bigger bombshell of an Emperor Kahless from last week, we'd get to see Tom Riker again)

Dramatis Personae is kind of goofy in comparison. I didn't buy the mutiny angle, and once it's revealed everyone's Under Alien Influence, it became less of an issue. Still, everyone involved seemed to be enjoying themselves, with some wonderfully acted scenes -Brooks and Visitor especially looked like they were having fun hamming it up and chewing scenery.

TNG had the meatier episode, though, so they take this week. How will the shows fare as we head into the final stretch of the season? Well, taking a quick glance ahead, it looks like DS9 will make a mad dash for glory.

Weekly Winner
TNG

Next Week:
DS9 - Duet
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Old May 19 2009, 07:07 PM   #54
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

That was a pretty easy victory for TNG. I never cared for "Dramatis Personae" (even if the clock was pretty cool) and "Second Chances" was a pretty good TNG episode.
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Old May 21 2009, 03:53 PM   #55
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Week 22: (Ending 06.13.93)
DS9: Duet (Airdate 06.13.93)

I happen to know that the repeat TNG aired for this week was Rascals, so obviously TNG wins th- ah, heh...

Okay, I couldn't seriously write that whole thing. Really, I'm kind of disappointed TNG didn't send in any competition against DS9 this week. Their scouting report must have went something like this:

"Geez, have you seen that Duet that's coming out? Man, what a tour de force that episode is. It's gonna establish DS9 as a real legitimate heavy-weight. No more dinkering around with warm-up skirmashes like The Passenger or The Storyteller. We'd better toss this round, but hey, at least we'll then get the season finale week all to ourselves! Let's see how their season finale matches up with our second-to-last episode!"

Well, maybe not.

Weekly Winner
DS9

Next Week:
TNG - Timescape
DS9 - In The Hands Of The Prophets
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Old May 22 2009, 11:20 AM   #56
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Week 23: (Ending 06.20.93)
TNG: Timescape (Airdate 06.14.93)
DS9: In The Hands Of The Prophets (Airdate 06.20.93)

Two good episodes here. One's an entertaining -if implausible- mystery; the other brings the religion-science debate to the forefront of a Trek episode, and (somewhat surprisingly for Trek up to that point) doesn't utterly dismiss the merits of religion in the process.

Yes, both are good, but DS9 gets the edge here, in that it's more of an Event Episode, so it carries stronger emotional resonance. Also, although Timescape executes the solving of the mystery skillfully, the direction in Prophets is some of the best Trek had seen. You've got all these minor, seemingly inconsequential events occurring at the beginning, yet as the episode progresses, everything comes together in quite the climax (yes, I admit I like the overly cliche "NOOOOOO!" scene -it's the music cue, dammit!). Plus, to end the entire season on one of the most understated-yet-poignant denuemants the franchise had seen (what, no cliff-hanger!?) was a very bold choice indeed.

I suppose I should still do TNG's season finale for the next week, then I'll do a season tally before moving onto S2.

Weekly Winner
DS9

Next Week:
TNG - Decent Part 1
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Old May 22 2009, 03:36 PM   #57
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

I've been rewatching DS9 too, but am near the end of the second season (last watched Collaborators). I've got to say, I thought If Wishes Were Horses is the worst of the first season - much worse than Move Along Home. The initial hook with Rumplestiltskin is okay, but it badly goes downhill with all that stuff about spinning verterons or whatever. It's painful. Move Along Home has the cop-out "it's only a game!" ending, but there's some quite nice stuff with Quark and Odo along the way. It's still pretty poor though.

Though I should say I skipped The Storyteller, as I remembered it being one of the most stupefying episodes of all time.

I loved Dramatis Personae. The mutiny starts of believable at first, but later on the factionalism is quite telling - Sisko is not yet totally committed to the job, O'Brien is completely loyal to Sisko, Bashir revels in the secrecy and plotting, Kira is impatient and not totally behind Starfleet, Jadzia is still coming to terms with being joined. Odo walks the line between the factions, looking for the solution.

In The Hands Of The Prophets is a superb bookend to the first season, and sets up the themes of the second. I never had much time for Bareil originally, as I couldn't understand why Kira was really attracted to him, but I've come to appreciate him more this time around. It's a good introduction for him opposite the brilliant Vedek Winn, the second great villain DS9 introduced. The creationism debate is interesting and well discussed, and seems as relevant now as it ever did.

I'm looking forward to your thoughts on the Circle trilogy.
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Old May 23 2009, 10:34 PM   #58
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Week 24: (Ending 06.27.93)
TNG: Descent (Airdate 06.21.93)

You know, even way back, I couldn't help but think TNG tried to do too much with this season-ender. It's like, "Hmm, we know we kind of fumbled that whole Time's Arrow thing, so how can we do a proper cliffhanger everyone will be glued to? Borg! Yes, of course, but we've done already done a Borg cliffhanger -we need something more... another villain. No, not the Duras Sisters, we did that alre- LORE!! We haven't heard from him for a while, let's throw Lore in there too!" On paper, it sounds good, but something about the odds against Our Heroes in Descent strikes me as too much. "How ever will they get out of this one?", and all that rot. It seemed like it was going to be a really awesome Event Episode in the first half with a compelling character story on the side, but once the Data Chase starts, it loses steam. Oh well. With so many hanging threads, it's still an effective, if overwrought, cliffhanger.


Weekly Winner
TNG

Next:
S1 Tally
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Old May 23 2009, 11:30 PM   #59
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

S1 Tally:

This is how the Tally works:

-Since the shows didn't (and won't) always go head-to-head each week, a solo outing will win a week by default. This is tallied in a Solo column.

-In another column is where I tallied the Against weeks, where direct comparison between the episodes occur; whichever show won the match-up in that particular week gets a point.

Thus, out of 24 weeks...

Solo Weeks:
DS9: 9
TNG: 5

Against Weeks:
TNG: 5
DS9: 4
B5: 1

DS9 having more solo weeks isn't much of a surprise since they started airing episodes in January, which is typically mid-season; so, there'd be fewer weeks for re-runs, despite two episodes shy of a regular season. It's actually somewhat surprising, then, that TNG had as many solo weeks as they did. Season finale aside (plus everything before DS9 premiered, which I didn't count), that's a full month of episodes TNG got to strut its stuff on its own.

Going up against TNG, however, DS9 didn't really stand much of a chance. Almost all of its best episodes were aired during solo weeks (er, along with a couple of its worst too); in fact, there were only two instances where you had DS9's best going up against TNG's best, which came with split results; and only one instance of a DS9 episode clearly beating out a TNG one (Captive Pursuit against Ship In A Bottle). Half of DS9's score could have gone the other way too, as those were victories decided on 'meh' episodes. Bottom line is TNG clearly had a stronger season compared to DS9, which sadly couldn't have done DS9 any favors in the short term. Watching a spin-off series wouldn't have been too appealing to a general audience if the Main Series was clearly the supierior.

As for the lone B5 victory, well, that was just a one-off pilot movie, and not worth delving into here; its impact on DS9's first season is negligable. Still, I wonder if my perspective is less than pure considering I have the redone version of The Gathering, not the one that originally aired.

So, in conclusion of S1, you had a few good rounds in ya', DS9, but TNG was The Champ going in, and is leaving the ring for this season still The Champ. Don't sweat it though, kid; you didn't do too bad for a rookie. There's always next season.

Season Winner
TNG

Next:
Season Premiers
TNG - Descent Part II
DS9 - The Homecoming
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Old May 28 2009, 07:49 PM   #60
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Here we go again, starting with S2 for DS9. TNG, still the King of the castle, is entering its 7th and final season. On the horizon is B5's first season, though not until January. Also, there was the debut of another show trying to get a piece of Star Trek's success; however, instead of trekking in stars, this one was about questing in the sea. (sorry, not going to do a Versus with this one ) All in all, television sci-fi was looking to be a lucrative business going into the fall of '93. Let's see how Trek's two shows fared against each other with their season premiers...

S2
Week 1: (Ending 09.26.93)
TNG: Decent Part II (Airdate 09.20.93)
DS9: The Homecoming (Airdate 09.26.93)

The Borg were useless and a total waste. Could have been generic goons hired by Lore, or perhaps mini-androids he constructed. Oh, the idea of Lore 'helping' Hugh's bunch had some potential, but the meat of this episode centred around Data and Lore's relationship -that was good stuff- not these Borg. They didn't even seem to be that much of a threat; even their big ugly ship was outwitted by a modified version of the Kurn Maneouver (see Redemption Part II); it's destruction was anti-climatic given how much of a big deal it was set up to be in the first part. Was this second part a let down though? Eh, not really. As soon as Lore was revealed at the end of the first part, it became quite obvious this would be about him and Data, and it's a fitting, satisfying conclusion to their story, with one loose end (the emotion chip) hinting at potential future stories.

DS9's premiere is definitely more bold (in a quiet way), in that it's primarily a set-up episode for the Circle Trilogy (did anyone know this was to be a trilogy at the time? I can't recall). Still, it has a good self-contained story surrounding Li Nalas' return to Bajor, plus the revelation that not only he feels he's a fraud, but Sisko points out that he is still needed as a symbol. The Homecoming is quite understated for a season premiere, with the highs coming off of well-acted drama and enjoyable little character moments (like nearly every scene Quark ended up in).

Man, tough one here. Well, actually, I already know which one's the winner, and although it's close I also know it's going to be a contraversial choice. However, in terms of episode-against-episode, I feel TNG had the better one, for the sole reason of the Data-Lore storyline. It carries more emotional resonance with the viewer because these are characters the audience is far more invested into, whereas we've only just met Li Nalas. I do have to give much respect to Richard Beymer though; he did a remarkable job in making Nalas a sympathetic character in just a half-episode.

Weekly Winner:
TNG

Next:
TNG - Liaisons
DS9 - The Circle
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