A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager - Page 87

DGCatAniSiri · May 14 2009, 10:14 PM

At least ratings-wise, I would suggest including both the pre-deduction and post-deduction scores in the actual review. I'm not so sure about how to handle the graphs and charts with that idea, though...

JustKate · May 14 2009, 10:17 PM

GodBen wrote:

JustKate wrote:

Golly, GB, that's so...reasonable! You're getting dangerously rational for a Trek board, you know...

I wish I could take all the credit, but I only realised the truth after being visited by three ghosts during the night. They took me on a crazy journey through time and showed me the negative consequences of my policy, and it would have taken a heart of stone to ignore their pleas.

So I told them to GTFO and let me get back to sleep, but the ghost from the future threw me against the wall and held a knife to my throat. I'm not a smart man but I know when I'm bested, so I backed down in the face of imminent death.

True story.

I figured it was something like that.

Tomalak · May 14 2009, 10:43 PM

GodBen wrote:

The fact that so many people have asked me to hold back on the point deductions for torpedoes and shuttles is beginning to make me question that policy, so I have come to an important decision; I'm going to set you all to ignore for the duration of my reviews. I can't have people influencing me, I'm sure you all understand and thank you for your cooperation.

Wouldn't it be fun if I was really like that?

I'm shelving that policy for now and I'll try to find a way to incorporate point deductions without affecting the episode scores, so consider Nemesis as being promoted to three and a half stars. I'm keeping the point deductions for TNG-style episodes as I do feel that this is a valid complaint against individual episodes as opposed to the show in general.

To be honest, I don't think it's a big issue. Shuttle crashes are an obvious cliché, so maybe you should only deduct points if it is completely arbitrary and unnecessary? Rick Sternbach has said manufacturing new shuttles shouldn't be a massive problem anyway, so neither should torpedoes.

Besides, Bernd Schneider already counted them up. (link)

TheGodBen · May 15 2009, 01:33 AM

Revulsion (**½)

I'm going to single out the first scene of this episode because I found it very enjoyable to watch. The bit where Tom and Kim tell a story about a prank they pulled on Tuvok wasn't as funny as it wanted to be, but I liked the energy after that moment as multiple plot and character threads are addressed. That scene made Voyager feel like a community with each person having their own story, and this is a feeling which I feel hasn't been there through much of the show so far.

The plot where Doctor Kennith H. Shmully and B'Elanna go to help that hologram guy was drawn out far too long, it is clear to the audience that something is wrong with him right away but the episode takes a long time to get anywhere with it. My other big problem with this episode is that B'Elanna is the one who kills the guy when I feel that it needed to be Dr Shmully who performed this act. It takes what could have been an interesting story where Shmully is forced to kill one of his own kind into a boring survival story for B'Elanna.

The b-story about Kim's crush on Seven was at least fun and gave Harry something to do. I'm not fond of Tom warning Harry off Seven because she's a Borg as only two episodes ago Tom gave Seven a speech about how he wants to help her and doesn't judge her. It made things feel disjointed.

A shuttle appeared in this episode and since I can't take points away from it I'm just going to grumble about it. *grumbles*

NumberSix · May 15 2009, 01:47 AM

Revulsion

First up, I thought the first scene was very un-Star Trek. I actually screwed up my nose when I saw all the blood, thinking wtf? I did like this episode despite its predictable-ness, probably because I like Leland Orser who played the crazy-hologram. I also agree with GodBen that the Doctor should have been the one to kill crazy-hologram-guy to make for a more interesting plot twist. Overall I thought it was interesting to see an episode that was more "i know what you did last summer" than normal trek.

Praetor · May 15 2009, 02:24 AM

GodBen wrote:

Revulsion (**½)

Agreed. Generally, had the dilemma with the hologram been handled better and more tense, I think it would have made for a better episode. But I do like it.

GodBen wrote:

I'm not fond of Tom warning Harry off Seven because she's a Borg as only two episodes ago Tom gave Seven a speech about how he wants to help her and doesn't judge her. It made things feel disjointed.

Obviously, Tom is lying and wants her for himself.

Wouldn't it be awful if he were really like that?

GodBen wrote:

A shuttle appeared in this episode and since I can't take points away from it I'm just going to grumble about it. *grumbles*

Next you'll be shouting for those damn kids to stay off your lawn.

Jaespol · May 15 2009, 04:34 AM

Yeah I found this episode boring me and did feel it was drawn out too long.

As for the torpedo/shuttle count rating, I think deductions should be taken from the series as a whole not single episodes otherwise we won't know by the ratings what you think of the actual quality of the episode, deducting for shuttles would be too technical.

The Grim Ghost · May 15 2009, 04:42 AM

Seems that GodBen missed the "Voyager-Shuttle-O-Matic" seen in the background of several episodes. Just push the big red button and a shiny new shuttle pops out!

Sometimes my art skills amaze me.

Praetor · May 15 2009, 04:50 AM

Bravo, good sir. I'm glad there's a red button.

GodBen should post that image whenever a theoretically new shuttle is lost from here on out, in exchange for not deducting points anymore.

The Grim Ghost · May 15 2009, 04:53 AM

Praetor wrote:

Bravo, good sir. I'm glad there's a red button.

GodBen should post that image whenever a theoretically new shuttle is lost from here on out, in exchange for not deducting points anymore.

I 'shuttle' to think what might happen if he didn't!

/runs screaming into the night/

Praetor · May 15 2009, 05:08 AM

Ouch...

The Grim Ghost · May 15 2009, 05:12 AM

^ I'm in a weird mood tonight, what can I say?

I liked Revulsion, an average but entertaining episode. Sometimes I get a little tired of the Doctor flipping out with glee everytime he meets another hologram, but I guess it is understandable.

Vykan12 · May 15 2009, 07:03 AM

I'm keeping the point deductions for TNG-style episodes as I do feel that this is a valid complaint against individual episodes as opposed to the show in general.

If TNG didn't exist, or someone (such as myself) say VOY before TNG, then those criticisms don't apply at all. Then again, there is something to be said for over-exploring the same topic. I'm not sure where I stand on this issue.

Jaespol · May 15 2009, 07:28 AM

What you call "TNG-esque" episodes, I call "Star Trek" episodes.

Tomalak · May 15 2009, 10:55 AM

Another one of those Hologram episodes that doesn't pause to think about the ramifications. Seriously, holotechnology should be more closely regulated if you can effectively create a new, sentient being at the touch of a button. It started with Moriarty on TNG, continued with the Doctor on Voyager, and then DS9 created Vic Fontaine. They can even suffer mental traumas and go on a rampage of murder. The only episode that really touches on it is "Author, Author", which is just a pale imitation of "The Measure of a Man" with added comedy in the first half. The scene at the end where it is revealed that the Mark I EMHs are being used as slaves is shocking really.

The scene where Evil Hologram grabs B'Elanna's heart is pretty cool though.

May 14 2009, 10:14 PM	#1291
DGCatAniSiri Captain	Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager At least ratings-wise, I would suggest including both the pre-deduction and post-deduction scores in the actual review. I'm not so sure about how to handle the graphs and charts with that idea, though...

May 15 2009, 01:33 AM	#1294
TheGodBen Rear Admiral Location: Ireland	Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager Revulsion (*½) I'm going to single out the first scene of this episode because I found it very enjoyable to watch. The bit where Tom and Kim tell a story about a prank they pulled on Tuvok wasn't as funny as it wanted to be, but I liked the energy after that moment as multiple plot and character threads are addressed. That scene made Voyager feel like a community with each person having their own story, and this is a feeling which I feel hasn't been there through much of the show so far. The plot where Doctor Kennith H. Shmully and B'Elanna go to help that hologram guy was drawn out far too long, it is clear to the audience that something is wrong with him right away but the episode takes a long time to get anywhere with it. My other big problem with this episode is that B'Elanna is the one who kills the guy when I feel that it needed to be Dr Shmully who performed this act. It takes what could have been an interesting story where Shmully is forced to kill one of his own kind into a boring survival story for B'Elanna. The b-story about Kim's crush on Seven was at least fun and gave Harry something to do. I'm not fond of Tom warning Harry off Seven because she's a Borg as only two episodes ago Tom gave Seven a speech about how he wants to help her and doesn't judge her. It made things feel disjointed. A shuttle appeared in this episode and since I can't take points away from it I'm just going to grumble about it. grumbles* __________________ *...so many different suns...*

May 15 2009, 01:47 AM	#1295
NumberSix Lieutenant Location: wonderland or neverland, whether i'm with alice or peter	Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager Revulsion First up, I thought the first scene was very un-Star Trek. I actually screwed up my nose when I saw all the blood, thinking wtf? I did like this episode despite its predictable-ness, probably because I like Leland Orser who played the crazy-hologram. I also agree with GodBen that the Doctor should have been the one to kill crazy-hologram-guy to make for a more interesting plot twist. Overall I thought it was interesting to see an episode that was more "i know what you did last summer" than normal trek. __________________ Luke Skywalker: "You don't believe in the Force, do you?" Han Solo: "Oh, you mean that thing you just found out about, like, 3 hours ago and are now judging me for not believing in it?" Blue Harvest

May 15 2009, 04:34 AM	#1297
Jaespol Captain	Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager Yeah I found this episode boring me and did feel it was drawn out too long. As for the torpedo/shuttle count rating, I think deductions should be taken from the series as a whole not single episodes otherwise we won't know by the ratings what you think of the actual quality of the episode, deducting for shuttles would be too technical.

May 15 2009, 04:42 AM	#1298
The Grim Ghost Fleet Captain Location: Thee Olde Spook Shack	Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager Seems that GodBen missed the "Voyager-Shuttle-O-Matic" seen in the background of several episodes. Just push the big red button and a shiny new shuttle pops out! Sometimes my art skills amaze me. __________________ Life looks better in black and white.

STAR TREK

CSI

ABOUT US

May 15 2009, 04:50 AM	#1299
Praetor Vice Admiral Location: Totally different head. Totally.	Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager Bravo, good sir. I'm glad there's a red button. GodBen should post that image whenever a theoretically new shuttle is lost from here on out, in exchange for not deducting points anymore. __________________ "Dude, put the blasty thing down, and have a toke on this baby." - 420 Kirk.

May 15 2009, 05:08 AM	#1301
Praetor Vice Admiral Location: Totally different head. Totally.	Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager Ouch... __________________ "Dude, put the blasty thing down, and have a toke on this baby." - 420 Kirk.

May 15 2009, 05:12 AM	#1302
The Grim Ghost Fleet Captain Location: Thee Olde Spook Shack	Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager ^ I'm in a weird mood tonight, what can I say? I liked Revulsion, an average but entertaining episode. Sometimes I get a little tired of the Doctor flipping out with glee everytime he meets another hologram, but I guess it is understandable. __________________ Life looks better in black and white.

May 15 2009, 07:28 AM	#1304
Jaespol Captain	Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager What you call "TNG-esque" episodes, I call "Star Trek" episodes.

May 15 2009, 10:55 AM	#1305
Tomalak Vice Admiral Location: Liverpool	Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager Another one of those Hologram episodes that doesn't pause to think about the ramifications. Seriously, holotechnology should be more closely regulated if you can effectively create a new, sentient being at the touch of a button. It started with Moriarty on TNG, continued with the Doctor on Voyager, and then DS9 created Vic Fontaine. They can even suffer mental traumas and go on a rampage of murder. The only episode that really touches on it is "Author, Author", which is just a pale imitation of "The Measure of a Man" with added comedy in the first half. The scene at the end where it is revealed that the Mark I EMHs are being used as slaves is shocking really. The scene where Evil Hologram grabs B'Elanna's heart is pretty cool though.