RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 135,893
Posts: 5,222,871
Members: 24,234
Currently online: 534
Newest member: evtclub

TrekToday headlines

De Lancie Joins Mind Puppets
By: T'Bonz on Apr 24

Cumberbatch One Of Time Magazine’s Most Influential
By: T'Bonz on Apr 24

Trek Actor Smithsonian Magazine Cover First
By: T'Bonz on Apr 24

Takei To Receive Award
By: T'Bonz on Apr 23

Yelchin In New Comedy
By: T'Bonz on Apr 23

U.S. Rights For Pegg Comedy Secured
By: T'Bonz on Apr 23

Shatner: Aging and Work
By: T'Bonz on Apr 23

Kurtzman And Orci Go Solo
By: T'Bonz on Apr 22

Star Trek #32 Preview
By: T'Bonz on Apr 22

Voyager Bridge Via The Oculus Rift
By: T'Bonz on Apr 21


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Welcome to the Trek BBS! > General Trek Discussion

General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 10 2009, 05:55 PM   #1
Mr. Scott
Commander
 
Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.

I haven't seen Star Trek 11, (I live in the Zhong Guo Federation and haven't seen it yet, hopefully I can see it next week) but I want to know if they expain this backstory.

http://www.trekcore.com/specials/rare/Sarek_Family.jpg

This crazy family................................

Does the movie explain how Serek and his wife met in the first place? What did she see in the man? Serek was a humorless fellow. Very Vulcan, very unemotional

Explain Vulcan sexuality as it is expalined in the series? I know about "Ponn Farr" where Vulcans go into mating season once every seven years, and that they have to go back to the person that they were bonded to (arranged marriage) to meet. I have always thought this was a retarded plotline, but how else can the writers explain sexuality in an unemotional species of people? How can a human like her get that handsome Vulcan into bed?

How can someone relate to an unemotional person. How does the unemotional person care about anyone else? If you are unemotional, you do not care about anything. Your family, your life or yourself. Maybe a fatalist worldview.

Then Serek in TNG marries a second human! I think that was a dumb device, maybe Serek should have married a Vulcan woman, maybe the woman that he was originally bonded to.

I would think that Vulcan would be xenophobic to a great degree, other people from other worlds can visit, but cannot really assimilaite or understand the Vulcan culture and rather grow old of the place. Can it be said that Serek and his wife were the first interracial couple in all of Vulcan? I have read that the Vulcan children in Star Trek 11 call the child Spock's mother a "whore". Why would they do this, if they were devoid of emotion. Since love is an emotion which is not practiced, the whore reference was towards that no alien should marrya Vulcan and Spock was a b*s*ard.

Vulcans have been occasionally portrayed as somewhat rude people, using logic to make their points which without their knowledge annoys their hosts, especially human ones. Dr. McCoy/Spock was an example of this.

Sarek was a very strict father, but he always loved Spock and wanted what was best for him. But how can an unemotional person love anyone? Love is an emotion. I have also inferred from all the series that Vulcans do feel, but through culture and training have blotted most of their feelings out, but a Vulcan does have feelings.

Enterprise really screwed up the Vulcans, the actors in the Vulcan roles had emotions. I have imbibed too much Romulan Ale to do research, but the Vulcans were almost villians in that series and several episodes played that out. I liked the Vulcan who was the supervisor and mentor of T'Pol.

My favorite Vulcan was Tuvok from Voyager played by Tim Russ. Russ played the role beautifully.

Last edited by Alidar Jarok; May 10 2009 at 10:37 PM.
Mr. Scott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 10 2009, 06:35 PM   #2
JiNX-01
Admiral
 
JiNX-01's Avatar
 
Location: Under Cdr. Tucker
View JiNX-01's Twitter Profile
Re: Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.

__________________
------------
Live as if you were to die tomorrow.
Learn as if you were to live forever.
-- Mahatma Gandhi --
JiNX-01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 10 2009, 06:50 PM   #3
borgboy
Captain
 
borgboy's Avatar
 
Re: Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.

Vulcans do have emotions. In the movie Serak tells Spock that Vulcan emotions are stronger than that of most other species. In the past their strong emotions led them to be violent, and Surak's philosophies taught them to repress their emotions and control them, but those emotions are still there.
Sarek fell in love with Amanda, and after her death fell in love with Perrin. So he is obviously attracted to human women. Most people do have a "type" after all. He probably saw in Perrin many of the same qualities Amanda had.
Sarek is a very handsome, intelligent and charismatic man, it doesn't seem strange to me at all that Amanda fell in love with him.
Spock is supposed to be the first successful Vulcan/human hybrid child, but I don't know that anything was ever said about Sarek and Amanda being the first Vulcan/human couple. We know from Enterprise that T'Pol and Trip were involved but they didn't marry.
The Vulcan children clearly had not developed strong control of their emotions yet.
__________________
Resistance is futile
borgboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 10 2009, 10:38 PM   #4
Alidar Jarok
Everything in moderation but moderation
 
Alidar Jarok's Avatar
 
Location: Arlington, VA
Re: Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.

Mr. Scott, please don't hotlink images (use image tags to directly post an image) unless you have permission. Use a special image hosting website like photobucket if you're unsure or just leave it as a link
__________________
When on Romulus, Do as the Romulans
Alidar Jarok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 10 2009, 11:08 PM   #5
SpocksBondmate
Ensign
 
Location: Massaging Spock's back and shoulders after a rough day.
Send a message via AIM to SpocksBondmate Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to SpocksBondmate Send a message via Yahoo to SpocksBondmate
Re: Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.

borgboy wrote: View Post
Vulcans do have emotions. In the movie Serak tells Spock that Vulcan emotions are stronger than that of most other species. In the past their strong emotions led them to be violent, and Surak's philosophies taught them to repress their emotions and control them, but those emotions are still there.
Good points...although I do know that Spock eventually had to "embrace" his human side. That being said, couldn't Sarek have done the same? I think that if he had, maybe Spock and Sarek would have had a better relationship.
__________________
"Jim!"
"It is not fascinating...but it is...interesting."
"Please, Mr. Scott, restrain your leaps of illogic."
SpocksBondmate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11 2009, 07:41 PM   #6
JustKate
Rear Admiral
 
JustKate's Avatar
 
Location: Indiana, USA
Re: Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.

Mr. Scott wrote: View Post
I haven't seen Star Trek 11, (I live in the Zhong Guo Federation and haven't seen it yet, hopefully I can see it next week) but I want to know if they expain this backstory.

http://www.trekcore.com/specials/rare/Sarek_Family.jpg

This crazy family................................

Does the movie explain how Serek and his wife met in the first place? What did she see in the man? Serek was a humorless fellow. Very Vulcan, very unemotional

Explain Vulcan sexuality as it is expalined in the series? I know about "Ponn Farr" where Vulcans go into mating season once every seven years, and that they have to go back to the person that they were bonded to (arranged marriage) to meet. I have always thought this was a retarded plotline, but how else can the writers explain sexuality in an unemotional species of people? How can a human like her get that handsome Vulcan into bed?

How can someone relate to an unemotional person. How does the unemotional person care about anyone else? If you are unemotional, you do not care about anything. Your family, your life or yourself. Maybe a fatalist worldview.

Then Serek in TNG marries a second human! I think that was a dumb device, maybe Serek should have married a Vulcan woman, maybe the woman that he was originally bonded to.
In the first place, as others have pointed out, Vulcans do experience emotions. Their mission, if I can call it that, is to make sure those emotions don't cloud their judgment or cause them to do things that should not be done...or not do things that should be done. I don't see anything incompatable with that and loving your spouse and kids.

In the second place, there is no evidence that Vulcans can have sex only during pon farr - they are driven to mate then, but they can presumably have sex anytime they want to, just like us humans. There is canonical evidence, both overt and implied, that this is so.

Finally, it's obvious to many present-day human females exactly what Amanda and Sarek's second wife saw in Sarek. Really. He's a very attractive man. So's Spock. Lots and lots and lots of female Trek fans preferred them to Kirk back in the day - and I was (and am) one of them. I think the network was kind of surprised by Sarek's and Spock's sexual appeal, actually.
JustKate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11 2009, 08:20 PM   #7
KimM
Rear Admiral
 
KimM's Avatar
 
Location: The poster formerly known as ORSE
Re: Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.

JustKate wrote: View Post
Mr. Scott wrote: View Post
I haven't seen Star Trek 11, (I live in the Zhong Guo Federation and haven't seen it yet, hopefully I can see it next week) but I want to know if they expain this backstory.

http://www.trekcore.com/specials/rare/Sarek_Family.jpg

This crazy family................................

Does the movie explain how Serek and his wife met in the first place? What did she see in the man? Serek was a humorless fellow. Very Vulcan, very unemotional

Explain Vulcan sexuality as it is expalined in the series? I know about "Ponn Farr" where Vulcans go into mating season once every seven years, and that they have to go back to the person that they were bonded to (arranged marriage) to meet. I have always thought this was a retarded plotline, but how else can the writers explain sexuality in an unemotional species of people? How can a human like her get that handsome Vulcan into bed?

How can someone relate to an unemotional person. How does the unemotional person care about anyone else? If you are unemotional, you do not care about anything. Your family, your life or yourself. Maybe a fatalist worldview.

Then Serek in TNG marries a second human! I think that was a dumb device, maybe Serek should have married a Vulcan woman, maybe the woman that he was originally bonded to.
In the first place, as others have pointed out, Vulcans do experience emotions. Their mission, if I can call it that, is to make sure those emotions don't cloud their judgment or cause them to do things that should not be done...or not do things that should be done. I don't see anything incompatable with that and loving your spouse and kids.

In the second place, there is no evidence that Vulcans can have sex only during pon farr - they are driven to mate then, but they can presumably have sex anytime they want to, just like us humans. There is canonical evidence, both overt and implied, that this is so.

Finally, it's obvious to many present-day human females exactly what Amanda and Sarek's second wife saw in Sarek. Really. He's a very attractive man. So's Spock. Lots and lots and lots of female Trek fans preferred them to Kirk back in the day - and I was (and am) one of them. I think the network was kind of surprised by Sarek's and Spock's sexual appeal, actually.

^^^ of course they were surprised. they were probably mostly men! (can't live with 'em can't just bury them in the backyard . . . )
__________________
Just one woman; doing what I can, with what I've got, where I'm at!
KimM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11 2009, 09:13 PM   #8
JustKate
Rear Admiral
 
JustKate's Avatar
 
Location: Indiana, USA
Re: Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.

oldstredshrtevr wrote: View Post
^^^ of course they were surprised. they were probably mostly men! (can't live with 'em can't just bury them in the backyard . . . )


Of course they were mostly men - I was going to point that out but decided to pretend to be all politically correct. Until now. But that is their only excuse, as far as I can tell.

So, Mr. Scott - there you have it. To you, a human female being attracted to Sarek might seem inexplicable, but lots of human females understand it perfectly. Hmmm, now that I think about it, a few weeks back there was a Mark Lenard/Sarek thread...Here it is: http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.ph...ghlight=lenard

Lots of Vulcan/Sarek love there!
JustKate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13 2009, 01:27 AM   #9
Sovereign_One
Lieutenant Commander
 
Sovereign_One's Avatar
 
Location: Neither Here Nor There
Re: Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.

Thanks for the link!
__________________
Wandering the Stars - Home of Tales of the Storyteller

Intrepid Trek - back online!

Last edited by Sovereign_One; May 13 2009 at 01:38 AM.
Sovereign_One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13 2009, 05:03 PM   #10
S'kai
Captain
 
S'kai's Avatar
 
Location: New Paltz, NY
Re: Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.

This is something we do not speak of to outsiders.
__________________
S'kai of Vulcan, Commander of the Zhang Heng, a Prius-class Shuttlecraft
XO USS Abraham Lincoln NCC-71809
S'kai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13 2009, 07:23 PM   #11
barnaclelapse
Commodore
 
barnaclelapse's Avatar
 
Location: Waverly, VA.
Send a message via AIM to barnaclelapse
Re: Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.

What was the great line from III?

"My logic is uncertain where my son is concerned."

That always kind of summed up Vulcans for me. It spoke volumes of their emotions and faith.
barnaclelapse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14 2009, 12:18 PM   #12
borgboy
Captain
 
borgboy's Avatar
 
Re: Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.

As for Sarek not embracing emotions, I imagine that Sarek faced a lot of prejudice and difficulties after marrying Amanda, perhaps that caused him to overcomensate and be "more" Vulcan and repressed.
I always was frustrated by how Sarek pushed Spock to reject his human side, but perhaps he was trying to protect Spock from all the bigots who would try and use that human side against him.
__________________
Resistance is futile
borgboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14 2009, 01:15 PM   #13
erebus
Commander
 
Location: profile pending deletion request 28/5/2009
Re: Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.

borgboy wrote: View Post
I always was frustrated by how Sarek pushed Spock to reject his human side, but perhaps he was trying to protect Spock from all the bigots who would try and use that human side against him.
I agree with this, my parents did the same with me and my brothers (as first generation children of indian immigrants in England, our overprotective parents wanted us not to assimulate English ways or develop strong relationships with English people, because they felt that ultimately we wouldnt' be accepted because of our race and only get hurt, probably because being relatively uneducated they'd suffered a lot of racial abuse in their own experience).
erebus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14 2009, 01:34 PM   #14
barnaclelapse
Commodore
 
barnaclelapse's Avatar
 
Location: Waverly, VA.
Send a message via AIM to barnaclelapse
Re: Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.

borgboy wrote: View Post
As for Sarek not embracing emotions, I imagine that Sarek faced a lot of prejudice and difficulties after marrying Amanda, perhaps that caused him to overcomensate and be "more" Vulcan and repressed.
I always was frustrated by how Sarek pushed Spock to reject his human side, but perhaps he was trying to protect Spock from all the bigots who would try and use that human side against him.
That's how it seemed to me, especially when their relationship started getting into the movies.
barnaclelapse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14 2009, 05:46 PM   #15
Sovereign_One
Lieutenant Commander
 
Sovereign_One's Avatar
 
Location: Neither Here Nor There
Re: Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.

Mr. Scott wrote: View Post
Sarek was a very strict father, but he always loved Spock and wanted what was best for him. But how can an unemotional person love anyone?
This is how.
__________________
Wandering the Stars - Home of Tales of the Storyteller

Intrepid Trek - back online!
Sovereign_One is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
sex, vulcan, vulcans

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:18 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.