RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,172
Posts: 5,435,365
Members: 24,941
Currently online: 502
Newest member: Andrewlmiles

TrekToday headlines

Two Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Oct 22

Pine In New Skit
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

Stewart In Holiday Film
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

The Red Shirt Diaries #8
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

IDW Publishing January Comics
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Yelchin In New Indie Thriller
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Saldana In The Book of Life
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 13 2009, 02:05 PM   #1261
Jaespol
Captain
 
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

neogothboy74 wrote: View Post
In that previous episode they show that Kes has lived her entire life span - and she had a good full life, but instead of dying, she travels back through time to the 3rd Season of Voyager. So everything after that point is just extra time; every day after that has been a gift that she shouldn't be experiencing anyways. .
I think you've misunderstood. In "Before and After" she only sees glimpses of a possible future, she only sees what we see and more...maybe about 4 days in total. I like how you've written it but unfortunately its not accurate
She only lived 4 days at most in the future.

Last edited by Jaespol; May 14 2009 at 12:44 AM.
Jaespol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13 2009, 05:31 PM   #1262
Tomalak
Vice Admiral
 
Tomalak's Avatar
 
Location: Liverpool
View Tomalak's Twitter Profile
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

She de-ages back to the point of conception, then zips through her first four years back to the point at which she left, so she's at her correct age.
Tomalak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13 2009, 06:28 PM   #1263
Praetor
Vice Admiral
 
Praetor's Avatar
 
Location: The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
Praetor wrote: View Post
(I'll not be reading the spoiler code parts til Monday. I'm going to try to go see the movie when the theater across the street is relatively empty.)
Brace yourself, I think this might be one of those rare cases where we disagree on something.
Nope. I don't think so.

We now return you to your regular thread.
__________________
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." - Q
Praetor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13 2009, 07:30 PM   #1264
TheGodBen
Rear Admiral
 
TheGodBen's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Praetor wrote: View Post
We now return you to your regular thread.
Not just yet.

__________________
...so many different suns...
TheGodBen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13 2009, 07:38 PM   #1265
neogothboy74
Commander
 
neogothboy74's Avatar
 
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan, United States
Send a message via AIM to neogothboy74 Send a message via Yahoo to neogothboy74
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Jaespol wrote: View Post
neogothboy74 wrote: View Post
In that previous episode they show that Kes has lived her entire life span - and she had a good full life, but instead of dying, she travels back through time to the 3rd Season of Voyager. So everything after that point is just extra time; every day after that has been a gift that she shouldn't be experiencing anyways. .
I think you've misunderstood. In "Before and After" she only sees glimpses of a possible future, she only sees what we say and more...maybe about 4 days in total. I like how you've written it but unfortunately its not accurate
She only lived 4 days at most in the future.
Actually, I think you misunderstood, but of course it's open to interpretation.

With a little help from Memory Alpha I'll try to explain how I interpreted the episode.

In the episode I saw, Kes had lived her entire life span into the year 2378 (in a much better future timeline in which Endgame never happened and Voyager had not returned to Earth yet). Kes had lost 98% of her memories due to her advanced morilogium. The Doctor struggled to give her 1 more year of life using a 'bio-temporal chamber' which was meant to revert Kes's cells to a an earlier state of entropic decay, but instead reactivated dormant chornitons in her system from a Krenim chroniton torpedo (which Seven later encounters in "Year of Hell", mirroring a scene in this episode), causing her to regress through her entire lifespan - picking up memories as she goes. The regressive effect is nullified in 2373 by exposing her to controlled doses of anti-chronitons, leaving her at her 3 year old status back in 2373 (though she has extra memories from her strange bit of time travel). Her life continues from this point - for a second time, though the timeline is altered as Kes now has an assortment of memories from the future that she didn't have the first time around, that she shares with Janeway - and Kes's own life has been extended in a way that no one could have forseen back in 2378. She has already lived her full life, but she can only remember the memories she picked up on her odd journey back through time because of the memory loss she suffered due to her natural biology in the future that will now never come to pass.

That's how I interpreted it anyways.

Last edited by neogothboy74; May 13 2009 at 07:56 PM.
neogothboy74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13 2009, 07:43 PM   #1266
DGCatAniSiri
Captain
 
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

If I may add another comment to the topic of the movie, what I seem to be noticing is that, at least based on what I've seen, a lot of those who didn't find the movie enjoyable had expected to and those who had expected not to like it did. Maybe it's a case of how high expectations are difficult to reach and exceed, but low expectations provide a pleasant surprise when they're surpassed.
DGCatAniSiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13 2009, 07:47 PM   #1267
neogothboy74
Commander
 
neogothboy74's Avatar
 
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan, United States
Send a message via AIM to neogothboy74 Send a message via Yahoo to neogothboy74
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

^ That could be true. I went in expecting nothing, and left singing it's praises.
neogothboy74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13 2009, 08:57 PM   #1268
TheGodBen
Rear Admiral
 
TheGodBen's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

DGCatAniSiri wrote: View Post
If I may add another comment to the topic of the movie, what I seem to be noticing is that, at least based on what I've seen, a lot of those who didn't find the movie enjoyable had expected to and those who had expected not to like it did. Maybe it's a case of how high expectations are difficult to reach and exceed, but low expectations provide a pleasant surprise when they're surpassed.
I didn't buy into the hype until about a week or two before going to see it and it was only because of all the tremendous reviews it was getting. When large groups of people said it is better than Wrath of Khan I expected something around that level, I didn't expect what we got. I probably did have my expectations set too high.


Nemesis (***)

Keep your top low and your glimpse wide.
Shut up!! Shut up, just shut the hell up! Speak like a normal person because as it is you are insufferable. You're almost as annoying as Neelix!

My basic take on this episode is that it was good but the way the aliens talked made me want to strangle every single one of them. It was toned down after a while, but those early scenes were tough to get through. Even though I remembered the twist while watching the episode I still enjoyed it, and Chakotay's difficulty letting go of his hatred even when he knows everything he went through was a lie made for a good ending. The episode was no Apocalypse Now, but at least the ending didn't devolve into a poetry reading.

Shuttles Lost: 7


What the hell? That is three episodes in a row where a shuttle has been destroyed, this is the clumsiest group of space travellers in the history of eternity. Could they not have spaced out these episodes a little better? Minus half a star.
__________________
...so many different suns...
TheGodBen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13 2009, 09:03 PM   #1269
Tomalak
Vice Admiral
 
Tomalak's Avatar
 
Location: Liverpool
View Tomalak's Twitter Profile
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Ah yes, the one with the Nausicaans in the Delta Quadrant.
Tomalak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13 2009, 09:17 PM   #1270
teya
Vice Admiral
 
teya's Avatar
 
Location: 2 mi S of Capt Braxton's shopping cart
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
Keep your top low and your glimpse wide.
Shut up!! Shut up, just shut the hell up! Speak like a normal person because as it is you are insufferable. You're almost as annoying as Neelix!

My basic take on this episode is that it was good but the way the aliens talked made me want to strangle every single one of them. It was toned down after a while, but those early scenes were tough to get through.
If you look at the script or at transcripts, the dialect is exactly the same--it isn't "toned down." The viewer just gets used to it, as in the film "Hustle & Flow" (which is in the Nashville African-American dialect and basically unintelligible to a standard American speaker for the first 10 minutes--but once you get into the flow...) .

The alien dialect serves another purpose--when Chakotay starts talking like them, his brainwashing is complete.
__________________
Akoochimoya, my indigenous ass.
teya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13 2009, 10:36 PM   #1271
Praetor
Vice Admiral
 
Praetor's Avatar
 
Location: The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
Praetor wrote: View Post
We now return you to your regular thread.
Not just yet.
Well...


Moving along...

GodBen wrote: View Post
Nemesis (***)

Keep your top low and your glimpse wide.
Shut up!! Shut up, just shut the hell up! Speak like a normal person because as it is you are insufferable. You're almost as annoying as Neelix!
I didn't quite have that reaction to the language - I thought it was a nice way of alienizing a race who was expressly meant to look human. But it was a big annoying. Overall, I really liked "Nemesis."

GodBen wrote: View Post
Shuttles Lost: 7

What the hell? That is three episodes in a row where a shuttle has been destroyed, this is the clumsiest group of space travellers in the history of eternity. Could they not have spaced out these episodes a little better? Minus half a star.
It's still Jeri Taylor's doing for what you said about "Coda."
__________________
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." - Q
Praetor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13 2009, 10:44 PM   #1272
Lynx
Rear Admiral
 
Lynx's Avatar
 
Location: Lynx Empire
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Nemesis

This is actually one of the few episodes in seasons 4-7 that I like. A good Chakotay story and I really liked that twist in the tale when it came to the people at war with each other in that story.

I did feel "at home" with the story because long before I watched this episode, I started writing a story about a Maquis crew stranded on a hostile planet, caught between two nations at war. However, that story turned into something completely different in the long run but that's another story.

As for "Nemesis", I'll give the episode 3 points out of 5.
__________________
Who'd let that cat in here?

Welcome to visit the Kes Website at:http://www.lynx677.tk/
Lynx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14 2009, 12:47 AM   #1273
Jaespol
Captain
 
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

neogothboy74 wrote: View Post
Jaespol wrote: View Post
neogothboy74 wrote: View Post
In that previous episode they show that Kes has lived her entire life span - and she had a good full life, but instead of dying, she travels back through time to the 3rd Season of Voyager. So everything after that point is just extra time; every day after that has been a gift that she shouldn't be experiencing anyways. .
I think you've misunderstood. In "Before and After" she only sees glimpses of a possible future, she only sees what we say and more...maybe about 4 days in total. I like how you've written it but unfortunately its not accurate
She only lived 4 days at most in the future.
Actually, I think you misunderstood, but of course it's open to interpretation.

With a little help from Memory Alpha I'll try to explain how I interpreted the episode.

In the episode I saw, Kes had lived her entire life span into the year 2378 (in a much better future timeline in which Endgame never happened and Voyager had not returned to Earth yet). Kes had lost 98% of her memories due to her advanced morilogium. The Doctor struggled to give her 1 more year of life using a 'bio-temporal chamber' which was meant to revert Kes's cells to a an earlier state of entropic decay, but instead reactivated dormant chornitons in her system from a Krenim chroniton torpedo (which Seven later encounters in "Year of Hell", mirroring a scene in this episode), causing her to regress through her entire lifespan - picking up memories as she goes. The regressive effect is nullified in 2373 by exposing her to controlled doses of anti-chronitons, leaving her at her 3 year old status back in 2373 (though she has extra memories from her strange bit of time travel). Her life continues from this point - for a second time, though the timeline is altered as Kes now has an assortment of memories from the future that she didn't have the first time around, that she shares with Janeway - and Kes's own life has been extended in a way that no one could have forseen back in 2378. She has already lived her full life, but she can only remember the memories she picked up on her odd journey back through time because of the memory loss she suffered due to her natural biology in the future that will now never come to pass.

That's how I interpreted it anyways.
I'm sorry but there's interpretation and then there's fact.
It is said that Kes only sees "glimpses" of a possible future at the end of the episode- that does not suggest she's seen her entire life.
Look at the example of when she flashes back and is on the holodeck, you say she should remember every single thing that had happened after that moment just not before (therefore meaning she had lived her entire life past that point as you claim) but she doesn't, she still thinks she is Tom' wife.
She only sees a few days of her future and this is specifically stated.

I liked Nemesis, it was a good episode but I hated the stupid way the people spoke too, totally unnecessary.
And I don't think taking away half a star for every shuttle lost is really fair.
Jaespol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14 2009, 01:14 AM   #1274
TheGodBen
Rear Admiral
 
TheGodBen's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Jaespol wrote: View Post
And I don't think taking away half a star for every shuttle lost is really fair.
Then wait until you hear this; it's not for every shuttle lost, it is for every shuttle which appears from now on. They used all their shuttles and it is really undercutting the premise of the show, so I'm deducting half a star every time a shuttle is used as a plot point until they tell me where these magical shuttles are coming from.

My goodwill towards Voyager was always only going to be temporary.
__________________
...so many different suns...
TheGodBen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14 2009, 01:19 AM   #1275
apenpaap
Commodore
 
apenpaap's Avatar
 
Location: Cardassia, where only the military metaphors work.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

When the Photon Torpedoes are all gone, will you subtract half a point too when one is used? (You should) If both a shuttle and a torpedo are used after theyare both gone, will you extract 1 point or 1/2?
__________________
The Obsidian Order: Proudly watching you since the 19th century. And looking manly in our purple hats while doing that.
apenpaap is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:08 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.