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Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

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Old May 11 2009, 12:02 PM   #16
ST-One
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Re: OMFG MASSIVE SPOLIERS: NeoTrek Engine Musings

No, he just says 'core', no plural.
But perhaps the core now simply consists of various reactor-units - redundancy and all that.
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Old May 11 2009, 03:18 PM   #17
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Re: OMFG MASSIVE SPOLIERS: NeoTrek Engine Musings

OK, if I remember correctly from old blueprints, the base of the neck along the spine of the secondary hull used to be where the deuterium tanks were. This are is where I saw the core(s) eject from the area where the neck blends into the secondary hull.

To me, I think because of the timeline change, the way Federation ships get to warp is much different. Someone up thread mentioned it, I think the nacelles are now much more self contained units then we have seen previously and the engineering deck now acts as a monitoring room making sure the nacelles get what they need to run and keep them balanced - hence the piping and various controls.

To me the nacelle front caps (the former bussard collectors) reminded me a lot of the swirling lights in the warp core in ST:TMP, indicating to me anyway that more is going on in there then we have previously seen. I think also the additional size/girth also supports this.
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Old May 11 2009, 04:32 PM   #18
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Re: OMFG MASSIVE SPOLIERS: NeoTrek Engine Musings

OK, if I remember correctly from old blueprints, the base of the neck along the spine of the secondary hull used to be where the deuterium tanks were.
I'm not sure if any old blueprints even acknowledged the concept of deuterium tanks. The TOS ship was originally supposed to run on something futuristic, be it superdense pellets of weird matter or interstellar forcefields of plain holy spirit (no doubt from Scotty's distillation plant).

However, the base of the neck (or much of the neck itself, for that matter) would be where a deuterium tank would go if the blueprints were made following the TNG era guidelines. The Encyclopedia gives a deck count for the TOS ship where this sort of tank placement is suggested, FWIW.

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Old May 11 2009, 05:25 PM   #19
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Re: OMFG MASSIVE SPOLIERS: NeoTrek Engine Musings

I would attribute the "multiple core ejections" to the effects department not giving a damn. If they moved a little faster they could have just as easily been photon torpedoes.
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Old May 11 2009, 05:46 PM   #20
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Re: OMFG MASSIVE SPOLIERS: NeoTrek Engine Musings

Mr. B wrote: View Post
I would attribute the "multiple core ejections" to the effects department not giving a damn. If they moved a little faster they could have just as easily been photon torpedoes.
Bullshit.
Is it so hard to imagine that this core consists of multiple core-units?
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Old May 11 2009, 05:52 PM   #21
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Re: OMFG MASSIVE SPOLIERS: NeoTrek Engine Musings

ST-One wrote: View Post
Mr. B wrote: View Post
I would attribute the "multiple core ejections" to the effects department not giving a damn. If they moved a little faster they could have just as easily been photon torpedoes.
Bullshit.
Is it so hard to imagine that this core consists of multiple core-units?
...no harder that imagining it consists of a pipe maze and massive tanks I suppose.
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Old May 11 2009, 06:26 PM   #22
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Re: OMFG MASSIVE SPOLIERS: NeoTrek Engine Musings

Mr. B wrote: View Post
I would attribute the "multiple core ejections" to the effects department not giving a damn. If they moved a little faster they could have just as easily been photon torpedoes.
The production designer told me that his art dept came up with key views for all the ships and environments, and ILM basically executed those while adding only modest enhancements/flourishes. If there's something lacking in the scene you mention, it is probably because Abrams' people wanted it to look that way, rather than an ILM failing, especially given that there was no time crunch on this project.
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Old May 11 2009, 06:28 PM   #23
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Re: OMFG MASSIVE SPOLIERS: NeoTrek Engine Musings

Mr. B wrote: View Post
ST-One wrote: View Post
Mr. B wrote: View Post
I would attribute the "multiple core ejections" to the effects department not giving a damn. If they moved a little faster they could have just as easily been photon torpedoes.
Bullshit.
Is it so hard to imagine that this core consists of multiple core-units?
...no harder that imagining it consists of a pipe maze and massive tanks I suppose.
Is that the jungle gym of metal pipes I see in ads where the camera looks up at guys walking under what looks like the framework for a swing set? Looks seriously amateur hour.
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Old May 11 2009, 09:31 PM   #24
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Re: OMFG MASSIVE SPOLIERS: NeoTrek Engine Musings

Timo wrote: View Post
But is it? All these bowels might have been found inside the TOS ship - and, if we trust the computer graphics from ENT "In a Mirror, Darkly", the central parts of the engineering hull did indeed consist of massive scaffolding and piping like this.

Multiple cores/reactors is a possibility with the TOS setup, too. And the basic elements seem to be the same: internal power generation facility, external engines in nacelles, separate impulse engines, antimatter involved in the workings, a nondescript role for dilithium...

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Well, it's not so much the scaffolding and piping that feel like the departure. It's that, from the shots inside engineering, there didn't seem to be any familiar underlying design to it all. I didn't see any significant component that I'd recognize as being part of a Trek-univese starship. I didn't see anything that looked like a central reactor or plasma conduit. Sure, there were a lot of pipes and tanks, but they all looked like supporting structure, not the equipment that performs the primary function.

Even if there were multiple cores, the objects being ejected out of the Enterprise looked like they were too small to be individual self-contained reactors. If they are, it's a significant departure from all the Trek tech I've seen before.

The design that's more familiar to me is a large, central reactor. Maybe there's a backup one too, but for the most part, there's a single big "thing" that's significant in size compared to its supporting plant hardware. Now it looks like we have a reactor cluster that, physically, is mostly support hardware. The individual reactors themselves are tiny by comparison. That's a pretty significant difference as far as core/reactor design goes.

The rest of it is familiar Trek design, but I don't remember them mentioning antimatter or dilithium. I really need to see this movie again. I can't wait for it to be out on blu-ray.
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Old May 11 2009, 09:39 PM   #25
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Re: OMFG MASSIVE SPOLIERS: NeoTrek Engine Musings

Single or multiple cores, the true effect would have been the same.
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Old May 11 2009, 10:07 PM   #26
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Re: OMFG MASSIVE SPOLIERS: NeoTrek Engine Musings

ncc-1017-e wrote: View Post
its stupid!

An accurate description, and NOT for the sake of merely hating the way it looked.

It's stupid because there is NO WAY such a massive space could be placed into the ship, in a way that would fit into the "filming miniature", for lack of a better term. This thing would take up the ENTIRE secondary hull, it looked so damn massive.

Not only that, it totally broke from the rest of the ship's look, of spit-and-polish clean and shiny... every time we went from the bridge to the engine room, I was totally pulled out of the illusion of being on the Enterprise... it ruined the illusion, it ruined the continuity of the ship, and it just looked incredibly dumb.

Now, i'm not saying that the engine room cannot be a bit gritty or grimy... not at all... but there is NO reason, to go from what looks like the Apple Store iBridge, to basically the Mobil refinery, within a single ship... that is just too stark a contrast. They could and should have done so much better.

The multiple cores thing was also absolutely stupid and retarded... the warp core IS what makes a Star Trek engine room... it is fucking iconic. I chock it up to the production team not knowing their heads from their asses, but it was a dumb move... the warp core, and the dilithium crystal chamber ARE what the Enterprise's engineering section is all about... for FORTY fucking years, the warp core has been the focal point, and centerpiece of any Trek engine room.
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Old May 11 2009, 10:50 PM   #27
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Re: OMFG MASSIVE SPOLIERS: NeoTrek Engine Musings

First of all, I have to say I *did* like the movie. I liked it a lot. I love that the franchise is being rebooted, because I feel like it desperately needed it. I am, however, bothered that they're not paying as much attention to the tech credibility, consistency and canon as TNG/VOY/DS9/ENT did. Some of the stuff is, yes, dumb. The new engine room is the perfect example.

The way I see it, though, is that we're stuck with this movie. As inexplicable as some of the tech might be, it's now part of Trek canon. We have to find a way to integrate it. Luckily, I don't think it was so far out of whack that it can't be explained in somehow.

I only hope the next movie won't introduce more tech inconsistencies.
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Old May 11 2009, 11:59 PM   #28
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Re: OMFG MASSIVE SPOLIERS: NeoTrek Engine Musings

BolianAdmiral wrote: View Post

An accurate description, and NOT for the sake of merely hating the way it looked.

It's stupid because there is NO WAY such a massive space could be placed into the ship, in a way that would fit into the "filming miniature", for lack of a better term. This thing would take up the ENTIRE secondary hull, it looked so damn massive.
I think that was the point, in this Enterprise the engineering hull IS the engineering hull and not just the location of a room.


Not only that, it totally broke from the rest of the ship's look, of spit-and-polish clean and shiny... every time we went from the bridge to the engine room, I was totally pulled out of the illusion of being on the Enterprise... it ruined the illusion, it ruined the continuity of the ship, and it just looked incredibly dumb.
again the point. Never been on a ship huh? The workspaces look NOTHING like the engineering spaces. Especially on research vessels and the like.


The multiple cores thing was also absolutely stupid and retarded... the warp core IS what makes a Star Trek engine room... it is fucking iconic. I chock it up to the production team not knowing their heads from their asses, but it was a dumb move... the warp core, and the dilithium crystal chamber ARE what the Enterprise's engineering section is all about... for FORTY fucking years, the warp core has been the focal point, and centerpiece of any Trek engine room.
EXCEPT in TOS, where THERE WAS NO WARP CORE and THERE WAS NO DILITHIUM CHAMBER

The idea of a "warp core" has only been around since 79. I chalk that one up to so called fans not knowing jack about TOS and thinking they do... cough....
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Old May 12 2009, 12:21 AM   #29
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Re: OMFG MASSIVE SPOLIERS: NeoTrek Engine Musings

Falconfire wrote: View Post

EXCEPT in TOS, where THERE WAS NO WARP CORE and THERE WAS NO DILITHIUM CHAMBER

The idea of a "warp core" has only been around since 79. I chalk that one up to so called fans not knowing jack about TOS and thinking they do... cough....

Hi, I'm 'jack.' Glad to meetcha.

3rd season had a dilithium chamber in ELAAN OF TROYIUS. Pretty sure they had one in ALTERNATIVE FACTOR as well, but I'll be damned if I try watching two frames of it to check.

TAS had an intermix chamber thingie.

The big forced perspective thing behind the mesh in TOS may not have been CALLED a warp core, but it certainly seemed to serve as a visual reference for (big quote marks around this) THE ENGINE.
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Old May 12 2009, 12:23 AM   #30
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Re: OMFG MASSIVE SPOLIERS: NeoTrek Engine Musings

Falconfire wrote: View Post

I think that was the point, in this Enterprise the engineering hull IS the engineering hull and not just the location of a room.
So if the ship is hulled, you lose the entire cigar section? Is THAT the point?
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