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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
Excellent 706 62.70%
Above Average 213 18.92%
Average 84 7.46%
Below Average 46 4.09%
Poor 77 6.84%
Voters: 1126. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 11 2009, 05:08 AM   #1351
Jolantru
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

N00B poster here! Greeting all!

I just want to say I FREAKING LOVE THIS MOVIE!!!! I have not loved a Trek film this much since Wrath of Khan.

But I think I might even love this movie more than Khan. Why? Finally we get a Trek movie with a decent budget. As much as I loved Khan, they reused effects shots from ST:TMP, which is just cheap and wrong. But Khan had a great story line.

This movie has a great story, great action, and finally looks like a big budget movie.

I know some folks are having sour grapes about this film. It's too bad that they can't enjoy this movie for what it is, a major ass kicking, blow you out of your mind experience.

Yes this is a reboot, so what? If you want to watch the "cannon", just go out and rent or buy the DVD's, problem solved. I would rather see a good compelling story than to have some super sacred "cannon" preserved.

And for those that don't like the movie... if you don't like it fine, but geez don't act like this is worse than the genocide going on in Darfur. It's just a movie, and as I said, you can always go watch reruns or get the DVD's, or go read some fan fic.
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Old May 11 2009, 05:09 AM   #1352
Borgminister
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Bacl wrote: View Post

It was never about war, for me (again for me) Star Trek was a show about peace, and intellectual curiosity.
You must have hated DS9 then.
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Old May 11 2009, 05:19 AM   #1353
Bacl
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Borgminister wrote: View Post
Bacl wrote: View Post

It was never about war, for me (again for me) Star Trek was a show about peace, and intellectual curiosity.
You must have hated DS9 then.
I loved it, actually, although in the last two seasons the space battles bored me.

However, even when the focus became about the war, it was a very intellectual and character-driven show. But I did prefer the earlier seasons more.
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Old May 11 2009, 05:22 AM   #1354
Feofilakt
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Bacl wrote: View Post
Borgminister wrote: View Post
Bacl wrote: View Post

It was never about war, for me (again for me) Star Trek was a show about peace, and intellectual curiosity.
You must have hated DS9 then.
I loved it, actually, although in the last two seasons the space battles bored me.

However, even when the focus became about the war, it was a very intellectual and character-driven show. But I did prefer the earlier seasons more.
Bacl has a point, DS9 wasn't exactly Starship Troopers as far as the warfare focus goes.
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Old May 11 2009, 05:50 AM   #1355
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

I liked it. The casting was perfect and it really carried the film.

The weak point for me was the background premise. Tying it into the original timeline with Nimoy's Spock seemed very forced. I realize that Nero going back in time changed things, but it doesn't explain why everything changed. For example, Nero going back in time somehow made Chekov a super-genius? I think the film would have been smoother if it was a clean break.

Also, Nero was too much of a cardboard cutout. Lots of stuff about him wouldn't make sense unless you read the Countdown comic. Personally, I don't think an average movie-goer should rely on a comic (or any tie-in material) to give them the necessary background on a character needed for the movie.

I could have also done w/o all the ADHD editing and the lens flares. Hopefully, they'll tone that down for the next one.

Again, I liked the movie and thought it did the job it set out to do. My issues are very minor, I admit, but I would like to see the movie again in order to better refine my thoughts about it.
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Old May 11 2009, 06:04 AM   #1356
Dark Gilligan
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Broccoli wrote: View Post
I realize that Nero going back in time changed things, but it doesn't explain why everything changed. For example, Nero going back in time somehow made Chekov a super-genius?
Nero and Spock didn't go back in time as much was they went backward and sideways. They entered another universe. Nero's actions did influence some events but not all. And Chekov was always very intelligent. He frequently manned the science station in Spock's absence. But yes, any differences in the two Chekovs would be inherent differences in the two universes, not from anything Nero did.
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Old May 11 2009, 06:14 AM   #1357
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

I just accept that they took some creative liberties while taking us back.
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Old May 11 2009, 06:20 AM   #1358
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Jolantru wrote: View Post
It's too bad that they can't enjoy this movie for what it is, a major ass kicking, blow you out of your mind experience.
Like I've said my issues have nothing to do with the writers supposedly raping one's childhood by altering the timeline or with the lack of social commentary.

I can easily enjoy a rip-roaring action adventure film replete with all variety of explosions and battles. However, I prefer the plot to hold together. When I first watched the film so much is going on that while I saw some problems I really didn't see the deficiencies in the film to the degree I did later because everything is moving so fast, maybe too fast. But once you see the film again or you sit back and try to make sense of all the stuff in the film and actually analyze the story the film really starts to have problems. Maybe the writers thought that with the whirlwind of events that occur in the film that you wouldn't catch on but I like to examine the story especially when it comes to these films or tv series that go out of their way to cover a lot of ground as it tends to be the preferred style these days. Having the plot make sense or providing the villian with plausible understandable motivations isn't being nitpicky.

I personally think Trek works better as a tv series. Most of the time after seeing a Trek film I leave not completely satisfied. The last one that really worked was Star Trek 6. This film is okay. It's not the best Trek film ever. It has issues that prevented me from being completely engrossed in the film as it unfolded. It's entertaining on a superficial level but it has its issues.

I think once all this initial excitement dies down I think you'll start hearing fans altering their tune with regards to the praise that they are currently heaping on it because it is far from perfect and from "excellent".
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Old May 11 2009, 06:22 AM   #1359
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

First off, I like it, it is great.

I did not like engineering. The movie made it clear that the timeline does not diverge until the Kevin, so why does the new engineering look like a waste facility? Trip's Eng looks so advanced compared to the new ENT. The bridge looks like the Apple store and Eng looks like a PC. I just did not get it. Can warp plasma really travel through basic sewage pipe? It also seemed weird that the view screen that Archer had was easier to see things on and much clearer picture. Maybe they lost HD technology before they built the Kelvin. It looks kind of ridiculous. I also still do not like the look of the outside of the new Enterprise. It lack any of the fluidity and beautiful lines of the original and the refit. I also did not like the uniforms on the Kelvin. They should have been a cross between ENT and TOS, but they looked like more of a TNG alternate universe uniform.

I did like all the actors, great cast. Just wish that some of the design had been better; because some of it was bang on.
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Old May 11 2009, 06:34 AM   #1360
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Gave it an excellent. Not perfect and some story stuff doesn't make sense but it was entertaining enough for me to overlook and still give an excellent. Theater was packed when I saw it, and I know about ten people who had never seen trek that went to watch it and loved it.
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Old May 11 2009, 08:58 AM   #1361
lexington1709
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Lexington1709's take on Star Trek XI

Well, I got to see the new Trek film the day after it released here in Korea. I caught the late show with some friendsÖ surprisingly, the theatre wasnít crowded and most of the people were Americans. Unlike most, I cannot make up my mind if I liked it or not (it may be because Iím coming off a head cold and the meds are still with me). So, Iím going to go watch it again when it makes its rounds at the base. But here are my likes, dislikes, head-scratchers, and unresolved questions so far.

My dislikes:
First off and main point of contention, I hate the new Enterprise design!! This ship is as bad as Archerís Akiraprise! Itís like it cannot make up its mind to be the TOS or the TMP Enterprise and certainly one of the worse ever for Trek! Matt Jefferies and Andy Probert have got to be spinning in their graves (and Probertís not dead yet!) at this abomination. Either revamp the TOS or TMP ship but donít blend the two together, please! Did I mention I hate this design?

My second biggest point of contention is the ending. Kirk was a CADET throughout the film and now he gets the Enterprise? Does this mean that if I go through the Academy in three years, I can get command of the Lexington when I graduate? What crew are you going to Ďassigní to serve on a ship with an inexperienced, devil-may-care commander? I was about beside myself when I saw them hand over a brand new ship to a wet-behind-the-ears, cocky-as-hell kid like Kirk. God help Starfleet.

Too many plot elements from Star Trek II appear in this film. Khan was brilliant but you can only reuse it so much before you cheapen the original. Okay, you want to give the bad guy some motivation but how many times can you use the old ďyou killed so-and-so, so now Iím going to get my revenge on youĒ bit? And what was with that parasite thing? Come up with something a bit better, will you and let Khan remain the masterpiece it is?

I cannot stand the engineering sections. Did JJ or any of his team actually visit a Navy ship? Apparently not; like Russ, they seem to be more from a factory than a starshipís engine room. And what was with those flight decks? Those two areas should look like the rest of the shipís interiors.

The bridge and other interiors will take some time to get used to and to be honest, Iím not wild about them. Again, JJ and his team actually should have gone to see a US Navy and a Royal Navy ship to get an idea of how things work on combatant ships. To me, it seems like Appleís iPod team designed these interiors; was Steve Jobs the prime contractor?

I am not a fan of the mini-skirts as uniforms. Back in the 1960ís, it was acceptable. Today, I donít think itís even appropriate. If youíre going to re-imagine the franchise, I think this was the one thing we could have done without. Get rid of them. Women donít need to show their legs to get ahead. But at least you did away with the tight catsuits.


My likes:
Iíve had one major point proven for my Lexington series and it came in the opening sequence. George Kirk and his wife were serving on the same ship and she was pregnant. At long last, Alex and Angelica McKnight serving together in our Lexington series has been validated! JJ, did you look at our website? LOL!

Most of the battle sequences were, on the surface, cool but until I see it again, I canít give a full analysis.

  • Both the Kelvin and Enterprise seem to be almost over-gunned, yet were getting their asses handed to them almost too easily. For that amount of weaponry, they should have been kicking ass, not getting it kicked.

    Shields seemed to be sub-par. In TOS, they were tough SOBís that were hard to knock out. Here, seems like even a screw or nut could take them down easily.

    I like the idea of intercepting incoming torpedoes with mini-phasers (someone has to have watched seaQuest DSV); it makes sense. Itís a lot like a Starfleet version of CIWS. Itís a good idea.
Kirkís reaction to McCoyís medicines was pure TOS comedy but it seemed almost on the edge of being over the top. And it was nice to see McCoy bend the rules for Kirk.

Lots of references to TOS in this film but not so many that you had to be a fan to understand them. Nice job there.

The music was good, though a bit Battlestar Galactica (Sci-Fi)-like. I got the soundtrack and itís solid. Not like Goldsmithís fantastic TMP score or Hornerís unforgettable ST II themes but it holds its own. A bit more attention needs to be paid here the next time.

The use of rock and roll in the soundtrack was a good move and itís the second thing this film validated for our Lexington series. Iím happy with it.

The acting was good overall.
  • Chris Pine did well in bringing a young Kirk to life. A little too cocky for me but overall, did a good job. But, is ďArcher-itisĒ kicking in? Seemed like Kirk was taking a beating a little too much and a bit too quick to get into a scrap.

    Zach Quinto did well, though Iím not sure if I like Spockís Ďjust under the surfaceí emotional control. He reminds me a lot of Saavik in Star Trek II. Should this be with Spock too? Guess weíll see in the sequel.

    Karl Urban needed a bit more screen time to flush out McCoy. From what I saw, Urban had Kelley down cold. I did like the divorce backstory; for years, it was only rumor. Now itís canon. Good work there. DeForest Kelley has to be looking down and smiling.

    Simon Pegg was absol-freaking-utely MAGNIFICENT. Heís easily my favorite character in this new group. Iíve always like Pegg and to see him in this role was a pure joy. Too bad he comes in about halfway in the film but he makes the most of the time he does have. Jimmy Doohan would have been proud of Pegg. More Scotty next time!

    Zoe Santana did well and this time around, Uhura did a lot more than ďHailing frequencies openĒ and showed a communications officer is just a bit more than a glorified switchboard operator (see Angelica McKnight). Just tone down the sex appeal a little and weíre good to go there.

    John Cho didnít have enough screen time to really give me any sense of Sulu but the sense of being underused is still there. Heís a good fighter and better than Kirk in some ways. Maybe after the second viewing Iíll get a better idea of the character.

    Anton Yelchin didnít do so hot in my opinion. Too much emphasis on copying Walterís accent and trying too hard to be the comical relief. Yet, it was nice to see Chekov in action in the transporter room. I think he needs to work on the character a little more before the sequel.

    Bruce Greenwood as Pike was absolutely freaking FANTASTIC and my second favorite character. Jeff Hunter was too stiff in the role back in the day. Greenwood brings the dignity and poise to pull off the part of the experienced starship captain. Whoever casted Greenwood in this role needs a generous bonus added to their paycheck. Bring him back in the sequel!

    Eric Bana as Nero was almost one-dimensional. He did wonderful as Hector in Troy but to see him in a role without much meat was almost painful. He needed more to work with in the character. The character was almost predictable. I didnít feel any pity or sympathy when Kirk blew him to hell. It was almost like, ďYeah, Nero bought the farm. So what?Ē

My headscratchers:

When the Kelvin rammed Narada, why didnít the explosion finish Nero off right then? Yes, I know it would have made for a very short film and yes, I know the warp drive was off-line but reality can be suspended only so much. The antimatter fuel is still there and at no time was there any mention of ejecting the bottles. There also would have been enough residue in the engines to make a thermonuclear explosion a certainty. Also, why not arm the self-destruct package to make sure you take him with you? My belief has been if youíre going to go down fighting, make sure to take the b****** with you.

When Uhura was ordering some drinks at the bar, she mentions a Cardassian drink. This struck me as being out of place and odd. Theyíre a post-TMP / TNG race. Do they even fit in this series? If so, why not bring in some Ferengi or Bolians?

Drilling from an orbital platform and to have the business end dangling from a miles-long hawser? Not only is it unpractical but very unsafe. When cut, the resulting detonation could have sent back a feedback loop in the system, almost assuring destruction in minutes. A better bet would have been to use a penetrating torpedo to detonate when it reached the planetís core.

Whatís with the Delta Vega bit? Delta Vega was never near Vulcan! So to strand TNG Spock there to see Vulcan destroyed is a bit like sending me to Antarctica for a tropical vacation. But it did make for a good introduction for Scotty.

Uhura and Spock? Spock is supposed to keep his emotions under control. Now heís trying to score with Nyota and show it so openly? And Kirkís all over her too? Iím not sure if I see this just yet, so the juryís out on this one.

Spock from TNG is now stranded in this alternate universe? Heís from the future so why not use the Guardian of Forever to return to his proper time and universe?


Unresolved questions:
One time, it was stated the Fleet was engaged in so-and-so sector. Is the Federation at war? Where does it fit (aside from being a plot device for Enterpriseís commissioning) in the grand scheme of things?

Will Admiral Pike remain in the wheelchair? My hope is not; the character deserves something better.

Will TNG Spock be able to get home? I donít like the idea of leaving him stranded in this universe, especially after all the manís gone through.

At the very end, we see Pike in a very TMP-looking uniform. Does this mean weíll see the monster maroons or some variation? Will we go to those awful-looking TMP uniforms or will we see the TOS uniforms remaining for some time?

At no time was there a mention of to what class the Enterprise belonged. Are we sticking to the Constitution-class nomenclature or is it the often-debated Enterprise-class? Just bugs me not to know for sure what class this is.
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Old May 11 2009, 09:03 AM   #1362
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Dark Gilligan wrote: View Post
Broccoli wrote: View Post
I realize that Nero going back in time changed things, but it doesn't explain why everything changed. For example, Nero going back in time somehow made Chekov a super-genius?
Nero and Spock didn't go back in time as much was they went backward and sideways. They entered another universe. Nero's actions did influence some events but not all. And Chekov was always very intelligent. He frequently manned the science station in Spock's absence. But yes, any differences in the two Chekovs would be inherent differences in the two universes, not from anything Nero did.
The Kelvin incident would've changed everything that Starfleet did. They thoroughly got their asses kicked and would need to be better prepared for the dangers of space than they thought they were -- design ships differently (and take more time to get it right, such as with Enterprise), add some academy courses, maybe cut some academy courses, alter their idea of what it means for a cadet to graduate, maybe increase the military aspects, etc. And their different approach would catch the attention of people who wouldn't have been interested in Starfleet otherwise, would cause some interested parties to turn away, and maybe the cadets would have a different education path than they otherwise would've gone.
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Old May 11 2009, 09:03 AM   #1363
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Re: Lexington1709's take on Star Trek XI

I was going to make a grumbling comment about people thinking their opinion deserves its own thread, but this is quite a comprehensive and intelligent summary.

I certainly agree with you about Kirk's ridiculous rank-jumping and was equally impressed with Greenwood.

Probably best to see it again before deciding whether you like it - I loved it originally and liked it less and less the more I thought about it, so it'll take another viewing to get settled.
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Old May 11 2009, 09:48 AM   #1364
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

The movie was outstanding and though McCoy didn't look like McCoy, he acted like him and that was what mattered. It was just an outstanding movie and a lot of fun.
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Old May 11 2009, 10:10 AM   #1365
Jim Steele
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

I'm quite miffed that every time I express my opinion of this film (when asked) people seem to completely ignore what I've said and go on a whinge about how I'm seeing the old series through "rose tinted glasses" and how I can't expect the new film to be Wrath of Khan.

I'm talking IRL here.

I'm thinking, I've just said I admired their balls in effectively scrapping the canon. I think it's a good move. No, I neither know nor care whether or not the stardates match up. I'm judging the film on its own merits, not based on how it fits with a dead 20th century science fiction franchise that a good chunk of the new film's audience are barely old enough to remember.

Argh. And I see some of the same attitudes displayed in here. I know there are people blind bashing it - forget them. Some of us though just didn't like the film as much as others and we all have our reasons. Is that so hard to accept?

Sincerely,

I. B. Miffed, Hertfordshire

(Seriously, I found a lot to like about the film, but as a whole it just didn't mesh for me, and there were some glaring utter stupidites. Nero was the shittest Trek villain since the last baldy Romulan cocksucker.)
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