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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
Excellent 706 62.70%
Above Average 213 18.92%
Average 84 7.46%
Below Average 46 4.09%
Poor 77 6.84%
Voters: 1126. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 10 2009, 06:45 AM   #1231
Tom Servo
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

lawman wrote: View Post
Borgminister wrote: View Post
Who says Kirk doesn't have things to learn? Also, isn't a lot of the fleet destroyed by Nemo? Captains are at a premium. This is how Spock and Bones will help Kirk in his command decisions.
No, actually the only Starfleet ships Nero destroyed were six of the seven sent from Earth to Vulcan, apparently crewed mostly by cadets. The rest of Starfleet is still intact, somewhere in or around the conveniently distant Laurentian system.

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
You know, everyone I know who's seen the movie, fan and not-already-fan, has done plenty of thinking and talking about this movie and its themes.
Really? I've seen lots of talking about plot and acting and continuity, and even a little about emotional impact (the way it celebrates family and friendship). But actual themes? Pretty much zilch. What do you think they were?


I honestly have no idea what you're getting at. TWOK was a better film by far, yes, and did have actual themes underlying the story... although calling it "deep" might be overstating the case. But what is there about it that you think wouldn't work today? Specifically? You seem to have a hypothesis here about how storytelling styles and/or audience tastes have changed in the last 27 years, but I just don't see evidence for it.

Heck, just look at X-Men and X2. Recent, big-budget adventure films with fancy special effects, yes... but still with stories built around serious social commentary, and a sense of gravitas that this film lacked. (As did X-Men 3, sadly. But I digress.)

Not to be snarky, but why should I care? I like what I like (books, TV, movies, whatever) for reasons of my own. How does it affect my experience one iota whether or not people previously unfamiliar with the material choose to like it?

Or, as another poster put it quite succinctly:

Exactly.

Tom Servo wrote: View Post
No, but it's a problem when someone thinks that if someone enjoyed a film for other reasons, or that that maybe the point of the film was not to be intelligent trek, but a fun ass movie, that they are somehow inferior and "drinking the koolade". I respond to April with venom because he presents his views with a condescending tone, and bitches just to bitch...
The Kool-Aid line really seems to have gotten under your skin. Don't know why, and don't care to speculate. FWIW, though, to whatever extent it's true that "the point of the film was not to be intelligent Trek," then IMHO that is a problem. If you don't see it as one, then Kool-Aid or no, at the very least you're one of those folks who (as I wrote upthread) somehow manage to like Trek without actually valuing what's best about it.

I love this though. The fact that people are destroying this film because it was not intelligent enough for them. What was so intelligent about TWOK? Or TVH? Or FC? Those three films are the most successful of the bunch, but they are also the most fun, just like this film.
I won't defend FC except as being the best of the TNG-era films, which is definitely damning with faint praise. But as for the others? If you have to ask, I suspect you wouldn't understand. Long story short, they were more intelligent because the writers wrote them that way, so that audiences could watch them without having their own intelligence insulted. Hell, Trekker4747 considers TWOK downright "deep." If you want to delve into details, that's probably fodder for a different thread.
See this is the problem, I get the messages behind TWOK and TVH, but I guess if I didn't get them, I wouldn't understand according to you. Well it seems that you can't understand the message behind this film because it's right out there in your face the whole time. It's about loyalty, friendship and becoming who you were truly meant to be, and how event's around us shape our lives in ways we could not possibly imagine. There is a message there, a great one, and I'm sorry you can't see it.

May I ask how did this film INSULT YOUR INTELLIGENCE? What did it do to slap you in the face? Honestly, there was nothing in this film that films like TWOK and TVH didn't have as well. A torpedo that can instantaneously give life to a planet? Spock mind melding a whale? My intelligence is so insulted right know you won't even believe.
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Old May 10 2009, 06:47 AM   #1232
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

jazzstick wrote: View Post
Borgminister wrote: View Post
jazzstick wrote: View Post

I'm not the cynic, the cynics are the ones that know their destorying something good and worth while because they can make a ton of money!
1. I don't think they are destroying, they are resurrecting.
2. Nothing wrong with making money.
Wow! You've proved my point!
You don't have one.

You don't like this film, then fine, break out some TOS series DVDs and go to town. Because guess what bub, this film was the only way this franchise was gonna be saved, and it seems to have done exactly that, and oh yeah, we seem to have gotten a great film out of it as well.
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Old May 10 2009, 06:47 AM   #1233
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

jazzstick wrote: View Post
Borgminister wrote: View Post
jazzstick wrote: View Post

I'm not the cynic, the cynics are the ones that know their destorying something good and worth while because they can make a ton of money!
1. I don't think they are destroying, they are resurrecting.
2. Nothing wrong with making money.
Wow! You've proved my point!
Glad I could help.
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Old May 10 2009, 07:10 AM   #1234
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

jazzstick wrote: View Post
Borgminister wrote: View Post
jazzstick wrote: View Post

I'm not the cynic, the cynics are the ones that know their destorying something good and worth while because they can make a ton of money!
1. I don't think they are destroying, they are resurrecting.
2. Nothing wrong with making money.
Wow! You've proved my point!
Please explain to me just how Paramount was going to make a Trek film out of charity and not out of profit. For that matter, please explain to me why Paramount sustained the Trek franchise for over 40 years. Here's a hint: it certainly wasn't out of the goodness of their hearts, bud. The seasonal budget for all the spinoffs was easily in the seven figures.

"To not like it would make them dickheads." --Nimoy on SNL. Bless him

Anyway, here's my review, posted on another board:

The entire Kelvin sequence was more epic than all but two of the previous Trek movies.

Heck, that's one positive problem I have with the movie: it's almost too epic, and while normally that's not a bad thing, I have something of a hard time thinking that this is the same crew who lost the ship to space hippies. Twice. (The movie makes it pretty clear that even though it's a new timeline and different technology, our Big 7 heroes have pretty much the same personalities and same traits that make them heroes in the first place).

But anyway, not the most complex or deepest Trek movie out there, and once again the film continues the trend for Trek to be more about fighting than actually going where no man has gone before, but it's a fun movie and you never notice the time flying by.

Surprises:

Amanda Grayson! NOOO!!! I think she's she only TOS character to actually die in this movie. The audience around me gasped.

Also, with all the references to the other movies, when the drill rig falls in the Bay, I half expected someone to yell out that the last of Earth's humpback whales were killed.

Uhura plays an integral role in a any Trek. Anyone remember STIII, when she was gone for 90% of the flick? Woo hoo!

Additionally, Sulu's sword fight, logistics be damned, was fantastic. We always knew he had what it took to be great. After all, he did eventually get the Excelsior. Aside from Kirk, he was probably the most dashing of the bunch.

And while not really a surprise, how great is it to see Pike and Kirk working together, albeit briefly?

I'm sure I'll have more complaints later, either when I think of them or someone brings up a good point. Still, for now, I'm going to revel in its popcorn goodness. While not the best Trek movie, it's certainly the most exhilarating.

Two minor nitpicks in classic Trekkie fashion:
-While I understand the new warp effect that came with a new change to the franchise (as it's happened a half dozen times anyway), I wish Nero's and Spock's ships retained the TNG/DS9/VOY warp look

-During the gunfight aboard the vessel, the phasers shooting short bursts is fine and consistent. I wish the Romulan weapons fired steady streams as was consistent in the past

And really, the only reason why I'd point out those nitpicks is just to show the contrast of what came before versus the changes made with the new version. But again, they're minor, almost minute minor.

Oh, and old school sound effects? Heck yes. You even get to hear the ship's warp-power-up sound effect from the 60s! Love it love it love it.
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Old May 10 2009, 07:15 AM   #1235
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Hello all, first post from a year long lurker! Glad to finally jump in and embrace my inner Trekkie .

I saw the movie on Thursday with the girlfriend, my brother, sister, and her boyfriend. I was the only one out of the group who had seen any Trek and liked/loved what had come before: sis and her bf tried to watch a few episodes but thought they were bland, my brother is a Star Wars freak (I dig it too, Eps 4/5/6 only though), and my girlfriend who doesn't like any sci-fi that isn't Twilight. But, they all agreed that it "looked cool", and were willing to give it a chance.

This movie blew me away. Holy SHIT. This is the Trek we've been waiting for! I loved the nods to previous Trek, the casting/acting was superb, the f/x were stunning, I really liked the score, and the pacing of the film. Nonstop, balls to the wall. And emotional as hell. The first 10 minutes had the room getting dusty .

The cast all delivered in spades, and in fact might be my favorite thing about the movie. Pine as Kirk, Quinto as Spock, Urban as McCoy equals pure WIN. They didn't turn their charecters into spoofs, but the subtle nods here and there were welcome while making their own marks. LOVE Scotty, just wish there was more of him. Chekov was very likable, Uhura was sexy, intellegent, and stoic, and Sulu was Badass. Greenwood was great as Captain Pike as well! Loved the nods with his uniform and wheelchair. I really want to see the cut scenes with Nero on the DVD, because I really liked Bana's villian. Granted, it was Khan-lite, but he felt real, if that makes sense. And of course, Leonard Nimoy. What else needs be said? You could tell he really enjoyed being back, and I enjoyed it as well

The Enterprise herself...wow. From the pictures released months ago, I wasn't sure how it would work. In motion, it's BEAUTIFUL. I wanted to see more! Awesome ship. I liked the phasers being pulses like TWOK. The new warp effect is excellent as well. You really feel the ships power (especially when the Narada warps).

My only complaints are it ended way too fast, and maybe in the sequel we can see a bit more futuristic engineering, though I liked where they were going with it. I'm not wanting to see TNG with one huge shiny warp core and no pipes, but maybe a mix of both that and what we see in this would be the ticket. Small, small complaint though .

Also, some have stated the the story/plot is the weak point of the film. At first I agreed, and still think they could have done a few things to make it flow a bit better re: alternate timeline, time travel shenanigans, whatnot. But, keep in mind that this movie is trying to accomplish something I've never seen done, that being sequel, prequel, AND reboot all at the same time. JJ and team NAILED it. An in-universe explanation for the new timeline/universe, while somewhat clunky, was a neccesity. Otherwise, there would have been a lot of ticked off Trek fans for wiping the slate clean. I thought it was a great job overall.

Oh, and my family LOVED it too. When you see that first shot of the Enterprise right after Kirk tells Bones "I may throw up on you" ...I audibly "Whoa"d. So did the family! My brother couldn't stop smiling, and my sister and boyfriend now wants their own Enterprise (God, don't we all...). Even the girlfriend enjoyed it!

Emotional, epic, hilarious: it was all I could have asked for and more.
(on a side note, my sis pointed out to me that this movie had a "A New Hope" vibe to it. I think she was right, but in all the right ways. As they all agreed with me, at its heart, it's most definitely Star Trek!)

I could go on and on, but it's time to get some rest. I'll be seeing it again this week with my other sister who's a big geek like me, and probably a few more times after that! I can't wait to see what's next for this LIVING and PROSPERING franchise!

9.5/10
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Old May 10 2009, 07:55 AM   #1236
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

JoeD80 wrote: View Post
TGTheodore wrote: View Post
Gene Roddenberry was a part-time journeyman TV writer, selling to the occasional show.
This part is not really accurate. He was not a "part-time journeyman TV writer". Although a freelance writer for a long time, he wrote pretty much constantly for TV from 1954 up to Star Trek. I wish I could write as many scripts as he did in only 10 years.
That's what journeyman means in writing. A writer-for-hire who's not on staff.

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Old May 10 2009, 08:24 AM   #1237
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Disturbed by What I've Seen.....

.....When I went to see The Voyage Home I had a similar feeling, the more I think about it the more it seems to me to be the same feeling I had back in '86'. I had seen Trek but it was not Trek, it looked like Trek, it smelled like Trek but it was different.

It's not a bad thing.

But I don't know if I liked it and that's the point.

My misgivings are similar to many here although I do not care for the canon arguments. I thought engineering was a mess, what was the point of Pegg? None of the characters seemed to interact in the way that actors doing that role for years comfortably interacted, the effects were good but ultimately no better than most blockbusters coming through today and they had the virtue of being ripped off from BSG

I was utterly unmoved by the opening scenes on the Kelvin which seemed contrived and what was the point of Spock prime? Lucky Kirk happened on by that cave having been chased in any number of directions by the 'Lobster'.......more plot twisting that seemed credible actually. Pine was trying to do an impression of Shatner at times it seemed to me as well. The simulator scene was farcical too it seemed to me.

It was OK though, it was certainly different but I was far from convinced. My daughter, whom joined me last night at the cinema that it was cool because it had lots of explosions, emmmmm...........!

Too much seemed to be going on to flesh out the characters, Nero was an opportunity wasted as was Spock and his backstory.

I really don't know.

Of course it'll make money though as TVH. But did it pander to the lowest common denominator?

I think it did just as TVH did too.

Last edited by JoeyDeacon; May 10 2009 at 08:38 AM.
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Old May 10 2009, 08:25 AM   #1238
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

galleywest wrote: View Post
Things I can do without:

Fans being really mean to one another over this movie. I'm tired of seeing people being insulted for liking or not liking it. Is it completely impossible for people to state their opinion on the movie without putting other people down to do so?
Apparently. Some things never change.

voygal72 wrote: View Post
Can an old lady post here?
Of course. Welcome to TBBS.

Reliant1983 wrote: View Post
Hello all, first post from a year long lurker! Glad to finally jump in and embrace my inner Trekkie .
And welcome to you, too.
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Old May 10 2009, 08:29 AM   #1239
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

TGTheodore wrote: View Post
JoeD80 wrote: View Post
TGTheodore wrote: View Post
Gene Roddenberry was a part-time journeyman TV writer, selling to the occasional show.
This part is not really accurate. He was not a "part-time journeyman TV writer". Although a freelance writer for a long time, he wrote pretty much constantly for TV from 1954 up to Star Trek. I wish I could write as many scripts as he did in only 10 years.
That's what journeyman means in writing. A writer-for-hire who's not on staff.

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I was referring to "part-time"
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Old May 10 2009, 08:57 AM   #1240
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

I'm afraid to leave this thread alone for more than a few minutes at a time because if I don't check it for more than an hour or two, it absolutely explodes to the point where it's nearly impossible to catch back up! Saw it in Imax this morning in Imax, so I thought I would stop in with a few more thoughts. I thought it stood up very well upon the repeat viewing. Definately thinking it's my new favorite Trek movie, and it very well could be my favorite movie. So, just a few thoughts on what happened:

~Chekov didn't grate on me nearly as much the second time. The boy genius was still a tad annoying, but I got over the accent. I think it was just kinda jarring the first time I heard it.

~When the Spock was talking with the bridge crew about the time travel and the alternate realities, that scene and the way Spock was played reminded me so much of Star Trek VI when they were discussing the possibility of the cloaked BOP, and I loved it! If Quinto was Spock nowhere else in the movie, he was Spock in that scene, and it was awesome.

~The beginning. Still absolutely loved the beginning, and it still got me to tear up, which is rare for things to do upon repeat viewings. In fact, I started going earlier than last time simply because I knew what was coming.

~Pine did an awesome Kirk, and played like he was meant for the roll. The way he talked, the way he acted, reminded me so much of Kirk.

~I had two non-Trekkie fans love the movie and another one think it was good.

~Overall, still a phenominal experience. As someone who has been a fan for very nearly my entire life, I will say that I don't go into a series or movie looking for a "big, orverriding moral story". I'm going in looking to be entertained, and this movie does it in spades. If it does anything wrong, it's that it goes by too quickly. Hours seem like minutes. i have at least two more repeat viewings in the theaters, if not more, and I look forward to them!

You folks who dislike the movie are certainly entitled to that opinion, but as I've said in other locations, I don't understand the, "You're a koolaid drinker/ sheep/ fake Trek fan/ idiot/ lowest common denominator/ etc" comments and mentality. The way I see it? If you want people to respect your right to dislike the movie, grow the hell up and don't pull lines or moves like this. If nothing else, it will help your credibility and the likelihood that you'll be taken seriously when you leave crap lines like that out.
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Old May 10 2009, 09:25 AM   #1241
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

mysticpain wrote: View Post
I mean ... seriously are you here who call this movie good actually Trek fans???
Yep, ever since ST:TMP in December 1979, a film which I loved, despite my lack of TOS knowledge - and an opinion for which many diehard fans of 60s TOS spent the next three years chastising me for liking such "an abomination". I then went on to run their fan club for over a decade.

JJ and Paramount have disgraced all that has come before. Gene and Majel are rolling in their graves.
Majel Barrett presumably read the script before agreeing to record her lines. I take that participation as her approval.
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Old May 10 2009, 09:35 AM   #1242
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

jazzstick wrote: View Post
Spock's character was so out of character just to bridge the gap, Really why would an old Federation diplomat seal up a supernova, this just makes no sense!
Because he was also a damed good Starfleet science officer in his day, who volunteered for a suicide mission to attempt to save an estranged world.
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Old May 10 2009, 09:48 AM   #1243
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A personal take on... that movie

So. Um....

So.

Given the story we have in the film there is -- or will be -- no Journey to Babel. No Amok Time. No Kolinar for Spock. No Balance of Terror. No Menagerie. No Shore Leave. No Where No Man Has Gone Before. No This Side of Paradise.

Heck, to think of it, Spock never comes back after Wrath of Khan as there's no Vulcan temple for a priestess to perform the refusion of his katra and body. Come to think of it, given this story line, Kirk would never have hooked up with Carol Marcus. No David, then. And no "successful" Genesis test, as it was DAVID'S choice to use protomatter that made it... um... work.

So how come we all already know about Romulan ships? Kirk recognizes it and knows who they were. And Uhura already knows all three (!) Romulan dialects.

Doctors do not attend the academy. They aren't line officers. Ensigns are not 17. They are graduates of the academy, and 21 at least.

Spock and Uhura? The hell?

Could the camera have been any more frenetic in its moves and angles? Jeezus, could we have had more lens flare?

So the Enterprise doesn't have a brig, Spock has to actually eject Kirk off onto an ice planet? Since when is marooning people to their possible deaths part of Starfleet regs? Ah, I know. It was necessary for the plot. Kirk meeting "Spock Prime" *that way* was really contrived. "How did you find me?" -- REALLY. (And Vulcan has an *ice* moon that has an atmosphere?)

Promoting a third-year cadet to first officer? And then captain? The hell? Oh, I guess there's no Obsession, either. No Private Little War.

And... hey. Afterthought. You mean someone can't fire a photon torpedo or something at that drill? Vulcan has NO planetary defenses?

Yeah, I'm kinda happy there was no Magic Reset Button -- but... damn. Losing Vulcan was a hell of a change to make for the sake of an "ooh ahh" factor. It totally overshadows the Enterprise redesign issues (I'm not a big fan of the James Cameron's Titanic engine room take on the Enterprise interiors. Yuck. Why are there big glass tubes full of water running around in engineering?

Yeah, it was a good movie.

But it wasn't MY Star Trek. Among other things, I really missed my "Trek music" cues. The beauty shots of the Enterprise *screamed* for them. Will I see it again? Yeah, probably. I will buy the DVD, of course.

But... damn. I'm really not happy.
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Old May 10 2009, 09:49 AM   #1244
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

I honestly thought it was rather mediocre and I can't understand what all the fuss is about. Still, I'm impressed that they had the balls to damn canon and do something new. What's disappointing is that they had to justify it with technobabble (three times), and even though they've established that this is a clean slate it didn't take them very long to start making the same mistakes that bogged down the old franchise.

Also - red matter? Fuck off Abrams.

There were many bits that I liked, the cast were for the most part fantastic despite Eric Bana (who manages to make a shitter villain than Shinzon). I loved the art direction apart from the Romulan ship's interior, which was one of the stupidest designs I've ever seen (guard rails? the empire cutting corners now?). Chris Pine really evoked Kirk of old, Spock and Scotty were both brilliant and Karl Urban totally nailed McCoy. In fact I think Urban's performance was the best thing about the whole flick.

At best, this film is at least a good launching point for a new Star Trek. I hope someone (other than JJ) comes along and pulls a wrath of khan out of the bag. It made me excited for the future, even though this film in itself was a bit shit. A messianic resurrection of a dead franchise, inspiring awe and erections across the earth? Um, no. I don't get that at all. But it could have been a lot worse and I genuinely think that it can only get better from here.
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Old May 10 2009, 09:52 AM   #1245
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
jazzstick wrote: View Post
Spock's character was so out of character just to bridge the gap, Really why would an old Federation diplomat seal up a supernova, this just makes no sense!
Because he was also a damed good Starfleet science officer in his day, who volunteered for a suicide mission to attempt to save an estranged world.
Indeed. Very much an act of unification - a Vulcan legend sacrificing himself for his wayward cousins.
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