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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
Excellent 704 63.03%
Above Average 211 18.89%
Average 83 7.43%
Below Average 43 3.85%
Poor 76 6.80%
Voters: 1117. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 10 2009, 05:37 AM   #1171
Trekker4747
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Penhall99 wrote: View Post
Saw it and thought it was great. Have some nitpicks, but overall I'm very happy with it.

The cast did a great job, but I will not simply dismiss the original actors (as some have done) now that a new group has taken over.

By the way, did anyone wish Spock had said "Where no MAN has gone before..." at the end instead of "Where no ONE..."

I dunno, I just was hoping they had kept the Original Trek version of it...
Just trying to be PC, I guess.

(As if I'm the only one who knows "man" doesn't mean male, but huMAN.)
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Old May 10 2009, 05:37 AM   #1172
Borgminister
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Penhall99 wrote: View Post
The cast did a great job, but I will not simply dismiss the original actors (as some have done) now that a new group has taken over.
Neither will I.

By the way, did anyone wish Spock had said "Where no MAN has gone before..." at the end instead of "Where no ONE..."
Yeah, I did. Would've made the retro credits complete.
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Old May 10 2009, 05:37 AM   #1173
Borgminister
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Penhall99 wrote: View Post
Saw it and thought it was great. Have some nitpicks, but overall I'm very happy with it.

The cast did a great job, but I will not simply dismiss the original actors (as some have done) now that a new group has taken over.

By the way, did anyone wish Spock had said "Where no MAN has gone before..." at the end instead of "Where no ONE..."

I dunno, I just was hoping they had kept the Original Trek version of it...
Just trying to be PC, I guess.

(As if I'm the only one who knows "man" doesn't mean male, but huMAN.)
Don't you know there are men and womyn?
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Old May 10 2009, 05:38 AM   #1174
J. Allen
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Borgminister wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post

Yes, when Sarek told Spock that he loved his mother, when George Kirk tells Winona right before the Kelvin hits the Narada, that he loves her, when Spock's mother dies and Spock reaches out to grab her and when he materializes he is holding empty space, when Vulcan was destroyed the entire theater was absolutely silent, there was this collective awe from the audience, myself included. This movie was just magnificent and I want to experience it again and again.

J.
Dude, this is the marketing that should be done to the Mom contingent for her special day. The chick flick aspect of the movie. Bring the kleenex.
Actually, that was my mom's Mother's Day gift. I took her on opening night. She LOVED the movie, and she likes the Uhura/Spock pairing. She also thinks Chris Pine's a cutie and "that Eric Bana is a sexy man."

J.
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Old May 10 2009, 05:38 AM   #1175
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Penhall99 wrote: View Post

By the way, did anyone wish Spock had said "Where no MAN has gone before..." at the end instead of "Where no ONE..."
Not so much, but I would have preferred "new life" to "new life-forms."
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Old May 10 2009, 05:39 AM   #1176
BurnedPike
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Just awesome.

Saw in iMax 3D, going again tongiht in DLP. Then in 35mm
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Old May 10 2009, 05:40 AM   #1177
Borgminister
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

BurnedPike wrote: View Post
Just awesome.

Saw in iMax 3D, going again tongiht in DLP. Then in 35mm
IMAX 3D?!? No WAY. Really?
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Old May 10 2009, 05:44 AM   #1178
Tom Servo
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

lawman wrote: View Post
Colmino wrote: View Post
No way am I going to peruse this whole thread. I'm just glad I've found a place where I can voice my five nitpicks with this otherwise very good movie.

1: The dialogue after Kirk's bar room brawl. Abrams used a highly disorienting earthquake camera technique (a-la the Bourne movies). Not subtle. Just about gave me a headache. Mercifully, I did not see this approach repeated with such severity.

2: Kirk's countless moments when he is inebriated, incapacitated, etc. Seriously, next time you watch the movie, count them. The problem with this is that the movie is pretty much always trying to use the scenario to comedic effect. Just how funny can it be for the star to be in a near perpetual daze?

3: Nero. "Hello. I'm Nero." I don't know what's worse: That this line of dialogue was uttered by the movie's villain (who is meant to be taken seriously, or so I gathered), or that the audience laughed at it. I mean.. this throwaway badguy destroyed Vulcan. Something like that demands - DEMANDS - more gravitas, with regard to the perpetrator, than this movie gave it. It really hurt that Nero felt and looked like a disgruntled college dropout.

4: The entire escape-the-black-hole sequence at the end did not feel justified, specifically because the only reason there was a close call to begin with was because Kirk decided to volley a few rounds at Nero's already doomed ship. This was a sloppy moment in the screenplay.

5: Was it ever explained why nobody on Vulcan or Earth possessed any means of attacking the drill? (While Spock was able to shoot it down quickly and easily with a small ambassador's ship.) For that matter, I think I also missed the exact reasoning behind drilling at all; it seems to me that a singularity would be adequately devestating to a planet, regardless of its point of initiation.
Excellent observations. Honestly I can't say your first point bothered me (in terms of camera work, the super-close-ups were more distracting, IMHO), but the other four points are spot-on. Number four, in particular—you might think when handing out promotions that Starfleet would have noticed that its new flagship wouldn't have had to jettison its warp cores(?) if the "acting captain" hadn't stuck around to shoot fish in the proverbial barrel.

JoeD80 wrote: View Post

No the ship wasn't already doomed. I got the feeling that it would travel through time again if they let it slip through the black hole so they had to fire on it to make sure it was destroyed. That's the impression I got from that scene.


The drill and Spock's ship were from the future so Spock's ship could be the only thing with the power to destroy the drill.


For whatever reason the red matter had to go in to the planet's core to form the black hole, so that's why they needed the drill.
Riiight. You do realize that an "I got the feeling," a "could be," and a "for whatever reason" aren't exactly rock-solid defenses of holes in the storytelling?


I do distinctly recall wondering what that long room full of red-shirted crewmen (including Uhura) was that Kirk ran through to get to the bridge—it looked almost like an old-style telephone exchange, but with big tanks of some kind behind the workstations. Really, did the designers put any kind of logical thought to how this ship's form and function related to one another? (And if so, why didn't they communicate any of it to the viewers?)



I'm inclined to agree. As I've been saying for many pages, it gives some fascinating insight into the apparently very different things different segments of the audience want and expect from Star Trek. Obviously different people do have different tastes, but it does perplex and sometimes disappoint me when people like something I like (in this case, Trek), yet obviously don't value the things I value in it.

You make something for the broadest possible mass audience, and it's no surprise that a lot of people will like it. But no, I don't think this lowest-common-denominator version of Trek has what it takes to stay relevant as part of popular culture for another 40 years, or even another 20.


You know, you can disagree with CRA without trying to psychoanalyze him. I'm aware he's been a bit overzealous on these boards from time to time, but his critique and subsequent remarks in this thread have actually been quite reasonable. (At least, until folks like "Tom Servo" and "James Bond" started ganging up on him in ways that were far more insulting even than your post here. I once got a a warning around here just for having consecutive posts... yet the mods allow those kinds of direct personal insults?)

And "change" is a neutral term. Sometimes change is positive and constructive (this country's new political direction, for instance), sometimes change is negative and destructive. Saying someone "hates change" is just an end-run around addressing the specific criticisms he may have of the actual change under discussion. I don't have to agree with everything CRA says (I know I differ with him on politics, for instance) to respect his right to express an independent opinion.

Dark Gilligan wrote: View Post
Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
Many of us still demand that Star Trek at least try and maintain a certain level of intelligence in the storytelling.
By what right do you demand anything from the people who run the Star Trek franchise? It can't be based on your financial right. Without even knowing you I can guarantee that the total amount of money you've spent on Star Trek in your entire life essentially adds up to nothing in terms of Trek revenue. It can't be based on your creative right since you're not a contributing writer or artist. Nor do you have an owner's right since Trek is clearly owned by somebody else. So what is it then? Who exactly are you to demand anything?
This is a downright bizarre response. Nobody's talking about ownership or financial transactions. Take a step out of that "business" mindframe. This is about the implicit contract betwen storytellers and their audience, something that applies to any entertainment property, including Trek. "You want me to enjoy your work? I want you to give me something both emotionally authentic and intellectually challenging. You want my continued attention and loyalty? Here's what you have to do to achieve that." Such expectations are always there. Otherwise, by what right would any critic ever review anything?

And, seriously, do you have a problem with someone expecting Star Trek to "maintain a certain level of intelligence in the storytelling"?
No, but it's a problem when someone thinks that if someone enjoyed a film for other reasons, or that that maybe the point of the film was not to be intelligent trek, but a fun ass movie, that they are somehow inferior and "drinking the koolade". I respond to April with venom because he presents his views with a condescending tone, and bitches just to bitch. It's not like he is just the poor innocent guy trying to defend his viewpoint. Anytime someone mentions something about this film he has to come in and put it down because is its not HIS version of Trek.

I love this though. The fact that people are destroying this film because it was not intelligent enough for them. What was so intelligent about TWOK? Or TVH? Or FC? Those three films are the most successful of the bunch, but they are also the most fun, just like this film.
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Old May 10 2009, 05:45 AM   #1179
Penhall99
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

I've been trying to browse this (monstrous) thread a bit, and I'm surprised to see that some had problems with them having Nimoy in the movie and attempting to preserve canon.

They could have just made a complete remake/start-over of the franchise, and I'm glad they did not. I'd rather see an altered timeline version of Trek than have them completely wipe the slate clean and dismiss 40 plus years of Trek.

They started over, but did so in a way that preserves everything that came before.

Works for me...
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Old May 10 2009, 05:48 AM   #1180
worldmaker
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Galaxy Quest, oops, I mean Star Trek 11

Just saw the movie yesterday here in the UK.

Here's my little review if anyone's interested....

[9/may/2009] Score: 7/10
Contains Spoilers.
One of the things I dreaded about this before watching was that the producers would do a "Star Trek High" style of movie, bringing all the characters together as teenagers to save the universe. They, just, about, thankfully avoided that temptation, but it's a very close miss, and I'm still not quite sure why the Federation would give a crew of semi-experienced teenagers and young adults control of a flagship of their fleet, but I guess there was less time in the final script to develop the characters through a few more years of maturity, bringing them together more realistically.
There are two reasons why I downgraded Star Trek from what is a good thrill-ride, and both owe their origins to "Galaxy Quest", so if you know that wonderful satire of the whole SF cult community you'll have a clue to what I mean.
The first of these is the "big mysterious alien super-technology device" which appears here as "Red Matter" a weird material with special properties; and the second is the "why the hell to they have THIS on the ship!?" scene in which we see the intrepid crew of Galaxy Quest, oops, I mean the Enterprise, have to confront an apparently useless but challenging part of the ship to make their escape, in this case the plumbing system.
From a writer's point of view they are both useless and unimaginative devices, which appear to say the screenwriters of Star Trek lack originality and/or are paying an over-enthusiastic humorous tribute to Galaxy Quest, and all that came before it. And that made me sad to think about what was otherwise a good piece of entertainment.
Star Trek will also surprise the viewer in introducing the whole genre anew. In the same way Casino Royale rewrote and restarted the James Bond movies, so Star Treks starts afresh, proposing a new parallel universe with a new history to-come, when they use time travel to unravel everything we've come to know about the characters and their universe, for example the origins of James T. Kirk, the fate of Vulcan, and so on.
This, in a way, is the good part, as it will offer future writers the opportunity, if they can restrain themselves, of developing a new plot for the whole, new Star Trek universe, but will upset the expectations of many existing fans.
Verdict: Go, carefully.

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Old May 10 2009, 05:49 AM   #1181
Borgminister
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Tom Servo wrote: View Post

I love this though. The fact that people are destroying this film because it was not intelligent enough for them. What was so intelligent about TWOK? Or TVH? Or FC? Those three films are the most successful of the bunch, but they are also the most fun, just like this film.
Plus, you do get "food for thought", even though it is lite fare.

Do two wrongs make a right?
Should Nero have been saved?

At least one can discuss these topics, which were raised but not ponderously by the movie.

I really, really hope Trek doesn't get pedantic with any future movies. Yes, perhaps a bit more depth would be nice, but let the audience figure things out and talk around the water cooler later.

No sledgehammers.
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Old May 10 2009, 05:50 AM   #1182
golakers
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Wow.

This was it! The Star Trek film that I knew we deserved after all the [relative] crap that Berman & Bennett threw at us over the years.

I just got back from watching it at the Cinerama Dome in Hollywood, CA. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Sure it's not high sci-fi, but it was a heck of a good time.

What a great feeling to see this film!

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Old May 10 2009, 05:51 AM   #1183
jazzstick
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Penhall99 wrote: View Post
I've been trying to browse this (monstrous) thread a bit, and I'm surprised to see that some had problems with them having Nimoy in the movie and attempting to preserve canon.

They could have just made a complete remake/start-over of the franchise, and I'm glad they did not. I'd rather see an altered timeline version of Trek than have them completely wipe the slate clean and dismiss 40 plus years of Trek.

They started over, but did so in a way that preserves everything that came before.

Works for me...
I think what "Spock Prime" did in this movie was a bit of a stretch!
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Old May 10 2009, 05:53 AM   #1184
Jackson_Roykirk
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Re: Galaxy Quest, oops, I mean Star Trek 11

worldmaker wrote: View Post
...From a writer's point of view they are both useless and unimaginative devices, which appear to say the screenwriters of Star Trek lack originality and/or are paying an over-enthusiastic humorous tribute to Galaxy Quest, and all that came before it....
"...Galaxy Quest, and all that came before it."

Actually, it was an tribute to ONLY what came before Galaxy Quest, not Galaxy Quest itself.
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Old May 10 2009, 05:54 AM   #1185
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Nimoy's acting was very very forced and this Spock was a bit out of Character!
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