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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
Excellent 704 63.08%
Above Average 210 18.82%
Average 83 7.44%
Below Average 43 3.85%
Poor 76 6.81%
Voters: 1116. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 10 2009, 01:49 AM   #1051
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

TGTheodore wrote: View Post
Gee, whiz ... you mean all we sheep got taken again? Wow! How do they keep doing that?
Having higher standards in entertainment makes us sheep. Ba-a-a-ah!
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Old May 10 2009, 01:51 AM   #1052
Borgminister
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
This board makes for a fascinating sociological study of the fanbase.
Yes. Yes it does.
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Old May 10 2009, 01:52 AM   #1053
Captain Robert April
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

TGTheodore wrote: View Post
Gee, whiz ... you mean all we sheep got taken again? Wow! How do they keep doing that? Darn. I thought I had a great time, but it turns out I was deceived. Thanks so much for setting all of us straight.
I mean there are too many lining up to be sheep.

For the love of God, if Roddenberry wanted nothing else, he wanted us all to THINK!! This movie is the antithesis of everything he tried to do with Star Trek, and (sorry, Majel) not only would he not have approved of this stripmining of his brainchild, he would've done everything in his power to keep this thing from seeing the light of day (or, barring that, he'd have done like he did many times before, leak the script to undercut the thing).
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Old May 10 2009, 01:55 AM   #1054
Tom Servo
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
TGTheodore wrote: View Post
Gee, whiz ... you mean all we sheep got taken again? Wow! How do they keep doing that? Darn. I thought I had a great time, but it turns out I was deceived. Thanks so much for setting all of us straight.
I mean there are too many lining up to be sheep.

For the love of God, if Roddenberry wanted nothing else, he wanted us all to THINK!! This movie is the antithesis of everything he tried to do with Star Trek, and (sorry, Majel) not only would he not have approved of this stripmining of his brainchild, he would've done everything in his power to keep this thing from seeing the light of day (or, barring that, he'd have done like he did many times before, leak the script to undercut the thing).
Naw, only his son said that he would have loved it. But hey, why listen to him when we can listen to you?! Cause we all know you and Gene were all buddy buddy.

All hail CRA!
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Old May 10 2009, 01:56 AM   #1055
Zeppster
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
TGTheodore wrote: View Post
Gee, whiz ... you mean all we sheep got taken again? Wow! How do they keep doing that? Darn. I thought I had a great time, but it turns out I was deceived. Thanks so much for setting all of us straight.
I mean there are too many lining up to be sheep.

For the love of God, if Roddenberry wanted nothing else, he wanted us all to THINK!! This movie is the antithesis of everything he tried to do with Star Trek, and (sorry, Majel) not only would he not have approved of this stripmining of his brainchild, he would've done everything in his power to keep this thing from seeing the light of day (or, barring that, he'd have done like he did many times before, leak the script to undercut the thing).
No he wanted to make a western in space. He did want some key ideals in the future, such as racial equality. I wouldn't say sexist equality because most of the women were really used as idols for Kirk or another to take advantage of. I'm sorry but he allowed TOS, TAS, TNG, and all the other movies to see the light of day and many of them don't really allow us to think.
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Old May 10 2009, 01:56 AM   #1056
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
TGTheodore wrote: View Post
Gee, whiz ... you mean all we sheep got taken again? Wow! How do they keep doing that? Darn. I thought I had a great time, but it turns out I was deceived. Thanks so much for setting all of us straight.
I mean there are too many lining up to be sheep.

For the love of God, if Roddenberry wanted nothing else, he wanted us all to THINK!! This movie is the antithesis of everything he tried to do with Star Trek, and (sorry, Majel) not only would he not have approved of this stripmining of his brainchild, he would've done everything in his power to keep this thing from seeing the light of day (or, barring that, he'd have done like he did many times before, leak the script to undercut the thing).
Have you seen TOS?
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Old May 10 2009, 01:56 AM   #1057
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Brain and brain, what is brain!
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Old May 10 2009, 02:05 AM   #1058
lawman
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

davejames wrote: View Post
I certainly agree there was some questionable logic in this thing, but not EVERY Star Trek story has to have an airtight plot you know.
Well, yeah, actually it does. The episodes that don't are the ones we tend to refer to as "bad ones."

I mean, to me nitpicking this movie to death is like watching, say, "A Piece of the Action" and getting so completely hung up on the ridiculousness of the Mob Planet itself that you fail to enjoy all the great humor and character moments and twists and turns in the actual STORY.
I honestly don't think I've been nitpicking it to death. It's a question of balance. "APOTA" is somewhat implausible, yes, but if you swallow the initial conceit then on the whole the rest is internally consistent. This movie, OTOH, kept bombarding me with one thing after another that just obviously didn't make sense, even by the story's own internal terms. I can suspend my disbelief enough to swallow a little of that, but eventually it reaches a point of critical mass. I'm not sure quite when that was for me... it may have been when Spock expelled Kirk onto an ice planet rather than just locking him up, it may have been when Scotty beamed them back onto a ship in warp... but the impression was definitely overwhelming by the time we saw that Earth was totally undefended against attack.

But that doesn't mean we can't overlook those problems and still enjoy the movie.
Yeah, it really does. I can overlook small stuff like "hey, isn't Delta Vega somewhere else?", but to overlook the big stuff I'd have to turn my brain off entirely. (I had much the same problem with STV: TFF.)

El Chupacabra wrote: View Post
...my main feeling as I walked out was that it simply didn’t feel like Star Trek, and that worried my greatly. I’ve been a fan for over 30 years, since early childhood, and to not have the feeling for the first time ever was very disappointing.
I know exaclty what you mean. I wouldn't say "the first time ever"—there were moments when VOY and ENT gave me that same sour feeling, enough so that I eventually gave up on both—but at least they weren't asking me to accept them as the conceptual template for all of Trek.

THE GOOD
- The special effects were stunning, particularly the opening battle. There can be no question about that.

- I warmed quite quickly to the exterior of the new Enterprise – at least when shown at a distance anyhow.
I can agree with this. Visually, it was an impressive movie.

I wasna't even bothered by the recasting as much as you were. Like I've said, it's not that the film completely lacks redeeming qualities. It's just that they're dwarfed by its shortcomings.

- The set designs. The Kelvin was ok and I could believe it was pre-TOS. However, I despised other sets, most significantly the Enterprise interiors. ...we are talking about how society will look over 200 years from now. In that respect I cannot accept that the Enterprise needs manual handles to go to warp and an absurd looking engine room that looks like the lower decks of a World War II submarine.
I agree 100%. Filming Engineering in a brewery is not a good idea if when you see it on screen you can't avoid thinking, "hey, that looks like a brewery!"

- Plot explanations. I thanked god I had read Countdown because without that the plot of the movie seemed very silly. A Romulan comes after Spock because his homeworld was blown up and he somehow blames Spock for not sorting it out in time, all of which we find out in a couple minutes. Great. That’s it? So basically we are to empathise with Nero and understand his plight? Do me a favour. I couldn’t feel for him after such a small and thrown away explanation and saw the character as nothing more than Bana playing a crazy.
Absolutely. People seem to forget that a big part of what made Khan work in STII (when having a megalomaniacal villain attacking was not yet a stock element of Trek films) was that he had history with Kirk... and just as importantly, we were given screen time to see how that history had affected him and his people emotionally. Here, Nero was just a thug with a crew of thugs, and a big ship.

- Kids in charge of the Enterprise. Talked about many times so I won’t go into detail, but from cadet to Captain? And for that matter the whole crew (sans Spock & Scotty) from cadets to senior officers? Utterly, utterly stupid.
Yeah. Doing a "setup" story is one thing; doing it in a way that takes obviously implausible shortcuts is just creatively lazy.

Abrams and his cohorts, including Nimoy himself, tell us Star Trek is about the characters. A lot of fans have bought into this when seeing the new movie and think that if there is a good arc for Kirk & Spock then that’s all that’s need. I respectfully disagree with this on every level. Star Trek was never about the characters, it was about the human experience, as told through the characters. This is the fundamental mistake with movie.
Interesting point. I'm not sure I'd phrase it quite like that, but I see what you're getting at.

I was never a fan of Star Trek because I liked to see ship battles or fancy devices. It was about, for me, the social issues it made me think about. It was the thing about Star Trek that set it apart from things like Star Wars. It had greater depth, more intelligence and more morality than the other things out there.
Hear, hear! Absolutely!

And I agree with you that while this new approach may be a recipe for a couple of big money-making films, it is not a recipe for long-term success.

Tulaberry whine wrote: View Post
The plot was hackneyed, illogical and really just a retread (to varying degrees) of the last three TNG movies. Yet there was an audacity (they destroyed Vulcan!) and verve to the writing that has been missing from Trek since the days of DS9....

Characterisations were understandably broad and flimsy, but their portrayals were warmer and much more relatable than Trek characters have been for a very long time....
You know, I actually agree with you about these points. It did have "verve," and the characters were "warmer." Again, though: slight consolation for all that was wrong with it.

Ultimately though, perhaps the best thing about this movie and what saves it from its failings is that it reminded me again of the potential of Trek. Once more, the possibilities are endless, I just hope the filmmakers boldly seek out and explore them.
See, that's a sense I don't get out of this.

Rii wrote: View Post
Upon second viewing the deficiencies in the plot are even more glaring. It is truly dire, and the labourious exposition and radical leaps of logic required to navigate its convoluted inanities dampens an otherwise superlative film.
Absolutely agree. Except for the word "superlative."

anti-matter wrote: View Post
The movie is another example of American exceptionalism through capitalism. Only here in American do you have the visionaries, resources and freedom to bring a film like this for the worlds enjoyment.

God Bless America and death to all her enemies.


Miri9 wrote: View Post
...2. Spock leaving the Enterprise to rescue the council and his parents...no way would Spock have left his duty on the ship.
You could practically see how the writers broke down the story in those scenes. "If we're going to destroy Vulcan, we have to do something to convey its impact on a personal level. But Spock is the only Vulcan really in the story, so he has to be involved. Let's get him on the surface by saying he has to rescue his family. Sure, we'll have to technobabble a reason why, and he'll have to leave the bridge in a crisis to do it, but it'll have a big emotional impact. Especially if we kill his mother!" (Of course, they then skipped straight from that emotional impact to the next big action sequence anyway.)

teacake wrote: View Post
a. When exactly did [the destruction of Romulus] take place in the old Trekiverse?

b. How did Nero going back and stopping Spock save his planet and wife? It was going to go supernova and Spock failed to stop it so stopping Spock didn't really change that did it?
a) 2387.

b) It didn't.
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Old May 10 2009, 02:06 AM   #1059
J. Allen
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

ST-One wrote: View Post
I saw this one more as a nice play with the Trek-typical reset-button.
That's how I saw it. When I first saw what was going on I thought "oh please don't hit the reset button", and they didn't. That was a new feeling!

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
This board makes for a fascinating sociological study of the fanbase.

Many of us still demand that Star Trek at least try and maintain a certain level of intelligence in the storytelling.

Others are willing to forgive even the most egregious boners so long as the result is an exciting movie.

Then we have still others who could be treated to a two-hour presentation of Leonard Nimoy's last colonoscopy and shout from the rooftops that it was the greatest Star Trek ever.

This last group is in full-throated ecstasy in this thread, and quite frankly, they scare me, because they're gonna take an arguably moribund franchise and take it right off the cliff Thelma & Louise style in their exuberance over this loud, flashy, and lobotomized Star Trek doppleganger.

So, I say again, Kool-Aid drinkers, enjoy the ride, 'cause it ain't gonna last. Your version doesn't have the integrity to hold up over time.
I am a hardcore Star Trek fan, have been since I was four years old, and I've always loved the original series the most (as well as some serious love for DS9). I went into this movie with an open mind and a willingness to see what J.J. had done. I knew better than to expect the exact same treatment Trek movies have been receiving the past 30 odd years. The result? I had a very enjoyable experience, and gladly say that this movie was a lot of fun, stayed very reverent and respectful to Star Trek as a whole, and is deserving of it's current standing. I am positive that good things will come of this new leap forward.

You show fear and bitter angst. You show uncertainty, hatred of what you don't understand, rage against a Star Trek you don't know, and more importantly, don't want to know. Your sense of boldness, of spirit, is limited to what you know, which makes it all the more sad. If you didn't like the movie on it's merits, that is one thing, but you don't like the movie simply because it exists, and that is truly a terrible thing, because you've let it control and shape your life these past 3 years. You must have it to hate, and you must have it to be in control, and that is very sad. You are a sad, embittered man who can't let go of the fact that things change, that people and culture move forward, that everything grows and develops.

Good luck in clinging to your past. It's all you have left, and you revile those who see there may be something more ahead.

How sad for you.

J.
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Old May 10 2009, 02:24 AM   #1060
Captain Robert April
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

J. Allen wrote: View Post
You show fear and bitter angst. You show uncertainty, hatred of what you don't understand, rage against a Star Trek you don't know, and more importantly, don't want to know.
WRONG!

I know and understand this attempted Star Trek perfectly. It's Paramount's final slaughtering of the golden goose, dumbed down to lowest common denominator to get the biggest bang and finally suck in that elusive mass audience that doesn't want to actually think about what they just saw, just go for a roller coaster ride and enjoy the buzz from the adrenaline rush, which was precisely what Roddenberry most feared would happen once he was gone.

So how in the hell people can claim that he would approve of his worst nightmare is beyond me.
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Old May 10 2009, 02:29 AM   #1061
phenyx2
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

urbandk wrote: View Post
I loved it. The possibilities of the franchise now feel limitless. It was great to see the original crew on screen again. I cannot emphasize that enough.
I have to agree. I am old enough to have watched the original series live...and was one who actually sent in letters when it was canceled. I already can't wait for the next movie!
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Old May 10 2009, 02:34 AM   #1062
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Borgminister wrote: View Post
Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
This board makes for a fascinating sociological study of the fanbase.
Yes. Yes it does.
Of course, for any "sociological study" to be of any interest it would have to be conducted by someone with the education and experience to be qualified to conduct it. The ability to spell "sociological" doesn't give one the tools or the temperment - or the protocols for accurate data collection - to conduct any study at all. It simply gives one a catchphrase for attempting to insult and provoke.
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Old May 10 2009, 02:40 AM   #1063
Borgminister
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Dennis wrote: View Post
Borgminister wrote: View Post
Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
This board makes for a fascinating sociological study of the fanbase.
Yes. Yes it does.
Of course, for any "sociological study" to be of any interest it would have to be conducted by someone with the education and experience to be qualified to conduct it. The ability to spell "sociological" doesn't give one the tools or the temperment - or the protocols for accurate data collection - to conduct any study at all. It simply gives one a catchphrase for attempting to insult and provoke.
I was simply noting that the fanbase includes CRA, who is part of the fascination...
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Old May 10 2009, 02:41 AM   #1064
Tom Servo
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
You show fear and bitter angst. You show uncertainty, hatred of what you don't understand, rage against a Star Trek you don't know, and more importantly, don't want to know.
WRONG!

I know and understand this attempted Star Trek perfectly. It's Paramount's final slaughtering of the golden goose, dumbed down to lowest common denominator to get the biggest bang and finally suck in that elusive mass audience that doesn't want to actually think about what they just saw, just go for a roller coaster ride and enjoy the buzz from the adrenaline rush, which was precisely what Roddenberry most feared would happen once he was gone.

So how in the hell people can claim that he would approve of his worst nightmare is beyond me.
GENE IS DEAD! Sorry, but he is. So we have no clue what the hell he would get from the film. Yet his closest relatives, the people that have known him his whole life, say that he would have liked it.

Unless you are his son, or Gene himself, then shut the fuck up about it. Because you don't know. YOU THINK YOU DO. But you don't.
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Old May 10 2009, 02:46 AM   #1065
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
I know and understand this attempted Star Trek perfectly.
No, you don't. You've demonstrated repeatedly that you have little understanding of what's going on or why.

It's quite funny to watch a poster continue to declare that extraordinarily successful creative people are "idiots" and "don't know what the hell they're doing" as they move from success to success, satisfying great numbers of people who are far more discerning, openminded and fully as conversant with and understanding of the details of the subject as the declaiming poster.

There used to be a popular slang phrase for that kind of thinking: "Everybody's out of step but Johnny."
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