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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
Excellent 706 62.70%
Above Average 213 18.92%
Average 84 7.46%
Below Average 46 4.09%
Poor 77 6.84%
Voters: 1126. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 9 2009, 08:26 AM   #916
T'Grinch
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

No more Vulcan...no more Romulus??? I'm not taking this very well...
*sigh* Me either.
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Old May 9 2009, 08:27 AM   #917
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

T'Bonz wrote: View Post
No more Vulcan...no more Romulus??? I'm not taking this very well...
*sigh* Me either.
Well... yes and no. In Nero's time, there is a Vulcan, but no Romulus. In this time, no Vulcan, but there is a Romulus.

J.
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Old May 9 2009, 08:28 AM   #918
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

aussie wrote: View Post
Above average.

Really surprised how much I enjoyed it.

Great first half, but the Nimoy scenes were sadly not as good, a real disappointment for a TOS lover like myself.

Well done to the creative team for injecting the fun back into Trek.

Go see it!
Cool, I wondered what you'd think of it.
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Old May 9 2009, 08:31 AM   #919
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

I went for above average, because I want to be optimistic for the future of Trek and I really liked the new version of the characters. I'll not say anything about the logical flaws or things that were not made clear, since others have written about them much better than what I can.
What I cannot digest is the destruction of Vulcan, I'm one of those that saw in Vulcan something more than just a planet of the Federation and it will take me a long time to adapt to it.
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Old May 9 2009, 08:31 AM   #920
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

See later post.
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Old May 9 2009, 08:34 AM   #921
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

siskokid888 wrote: View Post
OK, here we go. I want to look at the film on 2 fronts - as a movie, and as Trek.
Very sensible approach, since the standards are not the same. I have to disagree with your conclusions, though: I thought it failed on both fronts.

You could follow the story, even if you weren't a fan.
And if you were willing to throw your sense of logic and plausibility out the window.

As Trek - I was sure that it wouldn't be "good" Trek, and I was willing to sacrifice that to have life breathed back into the franchise. JJ fooled me, and pulled it off - it's a good movie AND good Trek.
I literally can't comprehend this: why would you have been willing, even hypothetically, to sacrifice what makes Trek good in order to get more of it? Having done so, why would you want more?

...maybe Trek was not ment to be too deep, maybe more Star Wars than 2001.
Eep! No, no, a thousand times no! Anyone who thinks Trek should be more like Star Wars simply misconceives what Trek was all about from the start. (Unfortunately, that "anyone" apparently includes J.J. Abrams.)

Borgminister wrote: View Post
THEY will establish continuity and canon now, which is as it should be.
"As it should be" in the sense that the current writers should have creative discretion over the story they tell? Yes.

But in the sense that these particular writers have anything worthwhile to offer, judging by this film? Sadly, no. It didn't actually add anything of value to Trek continuity—it just mined it for familiar trappings and a few character "bits," and discarded all the rest.

Magickthise wrote: View Post
...in many ways, all of Trek heretofore was the background for the epic tale we are about to see unfold over this and the next two films.
I feel exactly the opposite. Even as disappointing as VOY and ENT were, we knew that at worst they were just superfluous extra floors built onto an already sturdy house with a strong foundation. By way of contrast, Abrams and crew have torn the whole thing down to the bedrock in order to rebuild. To switch metaphors, they threw the baby out with the bathwater.
None of Trek heretofore is background for this. Everything all the way back to the original pilot is now superfluous. "Forget everything you know," indeed.

dkehler wrote: View Post
Saw it last night. I don't know if it's because of my own overly high expectations because of the incredibly positive buzz or whether I'm just an old, sad fanboy, but the only word that comes to mind is: DISAPPOINTMENT.

...the plot, no matter how much I try not to nitpick, is an absolute disaster.
Yep.

Where to begin?

1. Nero and his crew sat around for 25 years? Really? (And yes, I know of the Klingon prison planet subplot that got cut, but that's not in the movie, so it doesn't count, but even if it was, it opens up another can of worms such as: How did he get his ship back? Etc.)
Yep.

3. "Delta Vega" must be awfully close to Vulcan. At least they could have called it something else.
Yep.

4. If Scotty can beam someone millions of miles away, it certainly makes starship travel a lot less necessary. A lot faster as well.
Yep.

5. Kirk becomes the captain after just one mission for the Enterprise? So much for the years that Capt. Pike had her, yet all of the Kirk era crewmembers are already in place even though he's taking command of the ship many years earlier in this timeline.
Yep.

In short, it's like the writers brainstorm for hours on what cool set piece we can dream up, but five minutes on the stuff in between.
Yep. All that and more.

I agree with everything you've written, except this:
I give it a very generous 7/10.
That's way too generous. I'd say maybe a three.

Valley Forge wrote: View Post
...It was NOT the second coming of Star Trek.

First the good:

Casting choices were reasonably good. Most of the performances were very well done.

The special effects, and certain production elements were done VERY well.
Yep.

Next, the not so good:

The interior sets of the ships looked like those old 80's flicks that were filmed inside an old industrial complex.
Yep.

(I feel like I'm repeating myself here. But it's nice to see a few more critical responses finally weighing in on the thread...)

...it was as if someone, who didn't really understand Trek, simply plucked random elements out of the shows/movies and threw them in the movie, without even stopping to consider the context.
Yep.

Finally, the Horrible.

THE STORY! ACKPTH!...

Destroyed the continuity. CRA's arguments are well founded, and I agree with most of them.

The battle scenes were absolutely horrible. Abrupt, loud and incoherent. Makes nuBSG's shakeycam battles look like ballet.

Ridiculous plot elements. Kirk's 3rd attempt at the KM test...I mean, you at least have to LOOK like you're trying, even if you're cheating.

The destruction of Vulcan...totally rewrites the history of the Federation. You might not agree, but it was totally unecessiary from a plot perspective.

Cadet to Captain...over officers that were already graduated and serving on the E and other ships. GMAFB. That absurd plot device ruined the movie for me.
Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, and yep.

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Valley Forge wrote: View Post
Hi all,
It was NOT the second coming of Star Trek.
You are free to speak your mind, and form your own opinions, but in reference to whether this Trek is not the Second Coming of Trek:
I strongly disagree, and I think the Box Office will too.
You're talking apples and oranges here. Whether it succeeds commercially (a very strong likelihood) has essentially nothing to do with whether it succeeded creatively.

(You doubt this? Exhibit A: Transformers, last summer. Same writers, BTW... )

teacake wrote: View Post
I have something else to say to anyone lamenting the death of the old Trek (as opposed to someone who just thought the movie was sub par). One thing inescapable on this BBS is that very few folks are Trek-omnivores. Many have some series they despise or consider not-Trek. If you're lamenting the loss of the old Trekiverse how about revisiting one of these? Go and watch VOY all the way through...
That's a peculiar thing to suggest. I wasn't a fan of VOY or ENT mainly because the writing was too frequently subpar. That's essentially the same complaint I have about this movie, although the details of how it's subpar are different. IOW, I'm both lamenting the death of original Trek and saying the movie was bad—and the two statements are related.

Admiral James Kirk wrote: View Post
Star Trek is no longer a checklist. It's like it was in the 60s. Pristine. Virgin. Willing to go batshit crazy and toss out established facts if it got in the way of telling one hell of a good story.
I'm glad to see Trek refocused on its original core characters, and I can't gainsay your obviously sincere enthusiasm for the movie. But honestly, I can't say that being "batshit crazy" was a characteristic I ever associated with original Trek, much less praised it for. I think perhaps you overstate your case. Original Trek did, in fact, build up a complex and fairly consistent backstory (notwithstanding a few hiccups), and that's a large part of what many of us love about it.

That's why this movie works! Because it felt spontaneous. Immediate. Fresh! It bubbled over with excitement just the way I am now!
Tomato, tom-ah-to, I guess. To me, it bubbled over with action-movie clichés and predictable story beats.
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Old May 9 2009, 08:36 AM   #922
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Wow, that was the best Star Wars movie since The Empire Strikes Back.

As Trek it was passable, the first half was quite good, but the second half was fairly boring because the lightweight quality of the plot became all too apparent.

Still the cast was charismatic and it was overall entertaining. A decent reboot that has the potential to be a platform for a real Trek story later on.

Could've been a lot worse but I'm far from convinced that anything truly interesting will come out of the franchise ever again. I'm sure Paramount's happy at the moment though.

Just as a side note - Trek's thing is not social commentary. It's exploration of the human condition. This sometimes takes the form of social commentary, but when you look at episodes like The Enemy Within or The Cage, or the really strong movies like The Wrath of Khan - the stories have no social commentary, but are given depth by psychological themes.
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Old May 9 2009, 08:42 AM   #923
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Suggestion for today:

Some here have referred to Old Spock as Spock Prime. So he's from the Prime Universe. Him and Narada were sucked into a universe where the timeline split (as apparently it infinitely does) into what I would like to call for clarity the Secundus Universe.

Our Point Of View is now in the Secundus U. Deal with it.

For all those worried about the spin off series... why won't they happen? They'll just be different. Tuvok? Maybe he'll be there, maybe not. I'm assuming the Picard vineyards are still in France. And the Sisko restaurant in N'Orleans. I'm not worried. My POV is in the Secundus U. See?

Does this preclude more Prime U stories? Not necessarily, but it does raise a bunch of issues. It does make it harder to explain why there are two very different Treks to noobies. It does make it MUCH harder to persuade a studio to invest in Prime U stories. For a starter, why would they? Financially, it's a bad investment, no matter what you personally think. I'd like some more Prime U stories, but I'm not holding my breath.

Mind you, this makes a strong argument for the fan productions - if Paramount isn't going back there, maybe some licensing deal could be reached allowing money to be raised to make them viable.

All this jumping up and down and wibbling "waahh, it's not my Trek anymore"... is getting real old. And keep in mind I watched Trek back in 1967, okay? I don't mind this change at all, Trek was burdened by all the baggage and production values, and I thought this has been necessary for a long time, more than 5 years. And that's fine by me. Because I can live with it...I can live with it. Computer – erase that entire post.
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Old May 9 2009, 08:47 AM   #924
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

davejames wrote: View Post
lawman wrote: View Post
A lot of people seem to be defending it on the basis that it's impressive-looking and exciting. And for the most part, it is. But so what? What does all that amount to without a good story? It's all visceral thrills, no brain.
I think most of us agree that the backstory and time travel plots were poorly explained and executed. But that really only made up a small part of the overall story.

The MAIN story dealt with Kirk and Spock and their respective journeys, and the meeting of the original Enterprise crew. I thought that was all handled quite well.

The Nero/time travel stuff was just a backdrop to all that (although I agree, I wish it was handled better).
Hmm. I felt the dynamic was just the opposite of this: the main story was "defeat the evil villain," and the character stuff (some of which was actually decent) was strictly secondary. After all, the film didn't spend one second more than necessary moving all the players into their "proper" roles, any and all concerns over plausibility notwithstanding. (Heck, we didn't even get any decent K-S-M triumvirate interaction.)

Realistically, based on the TV show, would you have imagined that this particular command crew (of all different ranks, ages, and backgrounds) were all thrown onto the ship at the same time, in the course of one pivotal adventure that also happened to be the ship's inaugural mission? Of course not. In fact, the show gave us backstory explicitly saying otherwise. And rightly so: that's just not how life works. That kind of thing only happens in Hollywood movies, for the sake of narrative expediency.

Lapis Exilis wrote: View Post
Wow, that was the best Star Wars movie since The Empire Strikes Back.
You get a prize for the single most on-the-nose one-sentence summary of the film in the entire thread!

Could've been a lot worse but I'm far from convinced that anything truly interesting will come out of the franchise ever again. I'm sure Paramount's happy at the moment though.
Yeah, I agree. On both counts.

Just as a side note - Trek's thing is not social commentary. It's exploration of the human condition. This sometimes takes the form of social commentary, but when you look at episodes like The Enemy Within or The Cage, or the really strong movies like The Wrath of Khan - the stories have no social commentary, but are given depth by psychological themes.
Interesting distinction. I'm not sure it's worth arguing over, since in all sincerity it seems like a matter of semantics. To me, "social commentary" and "exploration of the human condition" are two sides of the same coin, and that coin—that casting of new light and critical perspective on aspects of life people otherwise take for granted—is intrinsic to what quality SF does. And "quality SF" is definitely a category that includes the best of Trek.

And excludes this movie, sadly enough.
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Old May 9 2009, 09:50 AM   #925
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Australis wrote: View Post
a universe where the timeline split (as apparently it infinitely does) into what I would like to call for clarity the Secundus Universe.

Our Point Of View is now in the Secundus U. Deal with it.

No! NO LATIN! It's pompous. Call the universe something else -- like "Bob".

NO LATIN!

--Ted (A three year Latin student decades ago)
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Old May 9 2009, 09:56 AM   #926
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

TGTheodore wrote: View Post
Australis wrote: View Post
a universe where the timeline split (as apparently it infinitely does) into what I would like to call for clarity the Secundus Universe.

Our Point Of View is now in the Secundus U. Deal with it.

No! NO LATIN! It's pompous. Call the universe something else -- like "Bob".

NO LATIN!

--Ted (A three year Latin student decades ago)
I like it, Bob The Universe.
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Old May 9 2009, 09:58 AM   #927
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

^ Well, if you can thinking of something with gravitas and without inflatus, I'm cool with that
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Old May 9 2009, 10:18 AM   #928
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

I liked it quite a bit, with some reservations. I would have liked more of Nero. Some scenes like the ice planet monsters, Chekov's language troubles and the sewer bit could have been cut to make an encounter with Spock and Nero. The hero's can only shine with a good villain to be a contrast and there wasn't enough of the villain to satisfy. The movie is a fun roller coaster ride, short on story, but that is fine for now. Trek has been over-burdened with being "meaningful" which is a point that the Onion's satiric review spells out fantastically. This film can be a great draw to revive a sputtering brand name.
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Old May 9 2009, 10:26 AM   #929
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

J. Allen wrote: View Post
I must be the only guy who loved the engine room.


J.

Nope, i thought it was great too; but then again i liked the whole look of the film. Even if some of it was too quick for my old eyes i could probably catch up after a few more repeat viewings
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Old May 9 2009, 10:28 AM   #930
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Lapis Exilis wrote: View Post
Wow, that was the best Star Wars movie since The Empire Strikes Back.

As Trek it was passable, the first half was quite good, but the second half was fairly boring because the lightweight quality of the plot became all too apparent.

Still the cast was charismatic and it was overall entertaining. A decent reboot that has the potential to be a platform for a real Trek story later on.

Could've been a lot worse but I'm far from convinced that anything truly interesting will come out of the franchise ever again. I'm sure Paramount's happy at the moment though.

Just as a side note - Trek's thing is not social commentary. It's exploration of the human condition. This sometimes takes the form of social commentary, but when you look at episodes like The Enemy Within or The Cage, or the really strong movies like The Wrath of Khan - the stories have no social commentary, but are given depth by psychological themes.
Well this is definitely a different kind of Star Trek, and I can understand why some aren't too happy with the new direction.

I'd love to see a return to more sophisticated and intelligent storytelling someday (DS9 is my favorite series for that very reason), but I gotta say, for right now I'm PERFECTLY happy just to see some Trek that's fun and exciting and has some dynamic, engaging characters again.

After how dreary and lifeless the past couple of movies and series have been, this is just like a huge breath of fresh air.
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