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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
Excellent 706 62.70%
Above Average 213 18.92%
Average 84 7.46%
Below Average 46 4.09%
Poor 77 6.84%
Voters: 1126. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 8 2009, 02:30 PM   #601
Csalem
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Loved the film. Humour was great, especially how it led into important plot points (e.g. Kirks hands on the way to Vulcan). I must be a Trekkie as I smiled when I saw Admiral Komack at the hearing! I'm sure I missed other TOS references though.
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Old May 8 2009, 02:31 PM   #602
marc0702
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

saw this last night, I didn't want it to end... In fact it made me want to go home and watch the old series. So they got it right, IMO.
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Old May 8 2009, 02:33 PM   #603
galleywest
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Killer Koinek wrote: View Post
Still, then I guess there would be a group of people crying about the inconsistencies. At least this way they can be satisfied that their universe is untainted and still exists the same as before. While I know that I can appreciate this new incarnation of Trek.

Just wish I could bring the two into a single narrative beyond the initial branching point. A shame.
Robert DeSoto wrote: View Post
anyway, just to clarify, I'm not saying this violates canon. I understand its an alternate universe. I'm just saying, if its not the real universe, I just dont care for them quite the same way.
I think these are really good points, and I agree completely. People are now in the "if you didn't like it you're a canon nazi and didn't get it" mode, which I think is unfair. My quibble with the movie can really be distilled into the above points. I do get it, it's just hard to feel the same connection to an alternate universe Trek as opposed to the original Trek universe. I think this is a valid reaction to the film.

Having said that, I completely understand why they really had to do the movie this way. They couldn't do it any other way and expect to continue to bring new, fresh stories to the screen. And, in a way, it's brilliant because it still maintains the hierarchy Trek fans love so much between themselves and non-Trekkies. Trek fans will now have a whole reservoir of "well, in the original Trek universe, it didn't happen that way..." knowledge to throw around.

I do look forward to seeing where they take this, I just am still very sad that Trek has reached the point where it's now moved completely outside of its original storylines, and we won't be seeing anything to do with those anymore. And that now Kirk doesn't have a dad, Spock doesn't have a mom, and Chekov has to live with inadvertantly killing Spock's mom.

Now, one thing that is NOT related to alternate universe stuff that is a legitimate complaint: weren't there any more senior officers on this ship? All these cadets suddenly take over the flagship of the fleet, including one guy not even assigned to the ship and one guy who just hitched a ride (also uninvited) from a local outpost. If I were a lieutenant on this ship, I'd be like, "hey, wait a minute....!"

And still the kissy-bear Spock stuff. Seriously. Still bothers me on reflection. Vulcans are usually either completely devoid of or completely consumed by emotions, so Spock gaining a fairly normal emotional middle-ground while he is this young is too out-of-character for me, even if he did just lose his Mom and planet (which I would think would make him an emotional mess rather than allow him the fairly tempered emotional outbursts and reactions he showed).

SO, to sum up, right now, leaning toward an Above Average rating, but will certainly see the movie again before voting, this time in a theater that isn't absolutely roasting and crammed full of people.
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Old May 8 2009, 02:51 PM   #604
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
Who are they????

Atleast Kirk kept his heart in his bar fight...lol

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Old May 8 2009, 02:55 PM   #605
lawman
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

ST-One wrote: View Post
lawman wrote: View Post
...This may be far more expensive than any version of Trek on screen before, but in every way that really matters it’s playing to the cheap seats. It’s big, flashy, and frenetically paced.
This is bad... because?
You can't keep up with it?
Hey, way to disagree there—start out with a cheap shot.

I can enjoy a well-told slam-bang hyperkinetic action story. (Not that this was one—well-told, that is.) Bourne Identity, to name just one off the top of my head. However, that's not what I look for from Star Trek, nor ever have. Trek has grander ambitions.

lawman wrote: View Post
It has top-flight digital effects.
Is this a criticism?
Not by itself, per se—just one in a set of characteristics establishing the kind of audience the movie was made for and marketed to. I take it you consider yourself part of that audience. Myself, I enjoy good effects, but they don't make or break a film.

[Lens flare]
An artistic choice and a by-product of shoting with anamorphic lenses.
Yes. An "artistic choice" that draws attention to itself, and that most filmmakers try to avoid, but that Abrams embraced. You may like it; I didn't so much.

'cause no-one ever uses close-ups?
There are close-ups, and CLOSE-UPS. I really don't need to see actors' pores. But honestly, the cinematography was among the least of my complaints.

Clearly you don't understand what movie-music is supposed to do.
More personal shots? Really?

I understand perfectly well what movie music is supposed to do. Jerry Goldsmith's score did it in past Trek films. LOTR did it. Last of the Mohicans did it beautifully. John Williams has done it all over the place (although he got to repeating himself over time.) This film? Didn't do it.

[introspection]
No, of course it doesn't
Perhaps you could elaborate a bit. Are you saying this story actually had character introspection? If so, where? Or are you saying you don't see it as necessary—despite it being intrinsic to Trek ever since the original pilot? If so, why not?

[broad-stroke characterization]
No different than during TOS then.
Quite the contrary. TOS at its best developed some fascinatingly complex characterization. (Though, admittedly, mostly just for the main three.)

[No themes]
Other than loss, the dealing with that loss and finding one's place in the universe.
You thought it dealt with those? I thought it used them as excuses for big action setpieces, and otherwise swept them under the rug.

lawman wrote: View Post
and its plot logic doesn’t stand up to thirty seconds of examination.
Oh?
Yes, "oh" indeed. I described quite a few examples in my post.

lawman wrote: View Post
and Christopher Pike is now its first captain rather than its second.
Pike was and always will be her first captain.
No, that would be Robert April.

(But even if you don't "count" TAS, it seems a pretty dramatic change that Pike's tenure in the center chair has been reduced from 11+ years down to a single mission.)

Now, I've indulged you, even though you responded to a carefully argued post with a selection of quick one-liners. Obviously you disagree with me about the movie. Care to set the personal stuff and the sarcasm aside, and offer something more thoughtful?
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Old May 8 2009, 02:58 PM   #606
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

galleywest wrote: View Post
I think these are really good points, and I agree completely. People are now in the "if you didn't like it you're a canon nazi and didn't get it" mode, which I think is unfair. My quibble with the movie can really be distilled into the above points. I do get it, it's just hard to feel the same connection to an alternate universe Trek as opposed to the original Trek universe. I think this is a valid reaction to the film.
This I can understand. I think the "knee jerk defense" reaction has come from months of "It violates canon!" and "They've wiped out everything we ever loved!" posts. Clearly neither of these are true (and your post reflects that), but since we've been so saturated with that, it's easy to just suddenly react without really carefully reading the posts. Not defending, just observing.
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Old May 8 2009, 03:06 PM   #607
BenRoethig
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

You have to take this as its own entity and if you do, it's a very enjoyable movie. I like some of the things the little things they did. Controls based on the airliner model, danger warnings on the screen like on a HUD, landing gear on shuttles, shuttles designed to parachute drops, shuttles turned sideways to maximize space (without atmosphere they're not going to need as much room to maneuver), the impulse engines shutting down right before going to hypsp.. I mean warp, and Starfleet having both working and service uniforms. Though the admirals looked a bit out of place and like the had been called back from a Cinco de Mayo part.

However, they did get somethings wrong too. The galaxy destroying supernova (trying to save the Romulan system because of the shared heritage would do), the seemingly complete lack of understanding of Military procedure (No clear chain of command, promoting everyone to their late TOS ranks right away, the use of "resign" instead of relieve), no announcement that the Enterprise was being sent out with mostly a cadet crew or a clear explanation as to why it built so much later, etc. All of those could have been easily corrected. I would have also preferred Pike make the announcement instead of Chekov.

As for the Characters, I think they were all in character or at least a version with understandable differences. Sulu and Uhura were fresh cadets and not the seasoned officers of 2265 TOS. Spock may have been relatively "space green" as well as the Enterprise has not existed yet for him to serve on. McCoy was dead on has story had not changed. Scotty was pretty understandable for basically being marooned. Lastly, Kirk had lived a very different life, but much was the same.

In closing, honestly there would have been a few things I would have done differently. I would have launched the Enterprise as planned in 2245 with the academy stint being between five years missions and the Enterprise undergoing major yardwork at Riverside. The Spock-Uhura romance I could have done without (not very logical). I also would have not destroyed Vulcan as its just too radical change. That being said, Nero's carnage does leave a lot of issues for the sequel. Nero won in the aspect that the Federation and the Klingons are severely weakened leaving a door open for Romulans of this time period. I think this may be the first piece of a three-part story.
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Old May 8 2009, 03:10 PM   #608
cbspock
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Jessop wrote: View Post
Indeed rebel, I don't care what it has done to future events because it has done nothing to future events. Believe it or not, all those things still exist, I can go grab The Wrath of Khan off my DVD shelf now and still love and enjoy it. I can watch this new film and any sequel they spawn and love and enjoy them too. It's fiction, man- get over it. You want to ignore writers intent, that's fine, I'm sure you and a couple of other sticklers will remain steadfast in your resolve. The rest of us can get on enjoying a reborn franchise in one of our favourite settings. Why don't you go and watch that Voyager episode Threshold and weep over the loss of it all? You still can you know, contrary to what you seem to believe those episodes still exist!

Also, we could see most of the 79 episodes stories still happening, although some may be slightly different. Khan is still out there waiting for this crew to find him.

-Chris
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Old May 8 2009, 03:10 PM   #609
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

I can see that with one or two exceptions, this forum is full of muppets and traitors and brain-dead mindless idiots who point at the flashing lights and say 'Ooh, pretty!' so I see no reason to bother posting here anymore.
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Old May 8 2009, 03:14 PM   #610
cbspock
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Rebel69 wrote: View Post
I can see that with one or two exceptions, this forum is full of muppets and traitors and brain-dead mindless idiots who point at the flashing lights and say 'Ooh, pretty!' so I see no reason to bother posting here anymore.

How about you stop being so bitter? Just because people do not agree with you, doesn't make them muppets.


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Old May 8 2009, 03:17 PM   #611
Captain Matthews
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Hey I just saw the movie last night and absolutely loved it....


My one big concern however was the fact that they literally went from being cadets to officers especially with Kirk being a cadet to become captain instantly...its a little hard to believe and I dont know if anyone knows why they would do that. Besides that I would easily give it a 9/10 maybe a 10
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Old May 8 2009, 03:18 PM   #612
Jessop
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Rebel69 wrote: View Post
I can see that with one or two exceptions, this forum is full of muppets and traitors and brain-dead mindless idiots who point at the flashing lights and say 'Ooh, pretty!' so I see no reason to bother posting here anymore.
'Traitors' hahaha, wow you have got problems you really need to have addressed, man. How do you reconcile your embrace for TOS with the fact Leonard Nimoy starred in and loved this movie?
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Old May 8 2009, 03:21 PM   #613
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Rebel69 wrote: View Post
I can see that with one or two exceptions, this forum is full of muppets and traitors and brain-dead mindless idiots who point at the flashing lights and say 'Ooh, pretty!' so I see no reason to bother posting here anymore.

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Old May 8 2009, 03:22 PM   #614
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Rebel69 wrote: View Post
... I see no reason to bother posting here anymore.
Aww, don't get our hopes up.
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Old May 8 2009, 03:23 PM   #615
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Captain Matthews wrote: View Post
My one big concern however was the fact that they literally went from being cadets to officers especially with Kirk being a cadet to become captain instantly...its a little hard to believe and I dont know if anyone knows why they would do that. Besides that I would easily give it a 9/10 maybe a 10
They just lost a good few ships and staff in that Vulcan , I didn't really have much of an issue with it - though I thought I would months ago.

Pike had faith in Kirk and gave him a nudge, the others possibly began to earn rankings through their work in Starfleet and because this ship was a big deal, they'd put their best on it.

The story carried me away with it... the rationalising came later

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