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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
Excellent 706 62.70%
Above Average 213 18.92%
Average 84 7.46%
Below Average 46 4.09%
Poor 77 6.84%
Voters: 1126. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 8 2009, 09:02 AM   #541
Gep Malakai
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Re: Disappointed (Spoilers)

nokiafuturephon wrote: View Post
Nero's actions caused many, many time paradoxes. For example, how could the actions from First Contact take place?
You do realize this has been a problem with every story to use time travel to date, right?
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Old May 8 2009, 09:30 AM   #542
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Re: Disappointed (Spoilers)

I loved the movie itself but I think I'd have liked it even more if they hadn't left the viewer in the alternate universe at the end of the movie. IMHO, they could have destroyed a planet that wasn't Vulcan, and left most of the plot the same without branching into a different universe.

Still, then I guess there would be a group of people crying about the inconsistencies. At least this way they can be satisfied that their universe is untainted and still exists the same as before. While I know that I can appreciate this new incarnation of Trek.

Just wish I could bring the two into a single narrative beyond the initial branching point. A shame.

My vote: Excellent.

I'll try and post a longer list of thoughts sometime when it isn't 3:30 a.m.
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Old May 8 2009, 09:34 AM   #543
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Re: Disappointed (Spoilers)

wow I wasnt expecting 10 replies in like 20 mins lol

anyway, just to clarify, I'm not saying this violates canon. I understand its an alternate universe. I'm just saying, if its not the real universe, I just dont care for them quite the same way.

For example, the mirror universe is canon. And its even fun to watch. But when the Alliance conquers the Terran Empire and kills the mirror universe Sisko, I just think ok thats pretty cool. I dont really care if any of the Terrans live or die as long as the episode itself is interesting. The mirror Sisko isnt the real Sisko.

But when the Dominion invades Federation space, or the real Sisko's life is in danger, then I have to see how Sisko survives or how the Federation defeats the Dominion.

Having this alternate timeline is to me, like making a mirror universe movie. It can still be a great movie. But I just don't care about them the same way. What happens in that universe has no impact on the universe that I know and love. Kirk and Spock could die, the Enterprise could be destroyed. It would make no difference to me.
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Old May 8 2009, 09:55 AM   #544
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Re: Disappointed (Spoilers)

nokiafuturephon wrote: View Post
Nero's actions caused many, many time paradoxes. For example, how could the actions from First Contact take place?
First Contact still happened...in a different reality than the one seen in this movie, although I'm at a loss as to why First Contact couldn't still happen in this alternate reality.

There are no paradoxes created in the film because every change made in the original timeline simply created a new one, leaving the original unchanged. Nero and Old Spock were still around because they now existed in the new universe, and had disappeared from their original universe. I'm not seeing where others are finding a paradox here.
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Old May 8 2009, 10:01 AM   #545
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

firefox390 wrote: View Post
Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
No Nurse Chapel, Yeoman Rand or Number One. I know they want to get back to basics, but Chapel and Rand at least were big players in the original series and deserved some screentime. I really hope they appear in Star Trek XII.
The writers made the right decision to leave out Nurse Chapel and Yeoman Rand since there is so much that a new viewer of Trek can take in this film. However, I do agree that they should appear in STXII. If not, I will be severely disappointed.
Listen carefully when you see the film next time. There's a scene in sickbay -- I THINK when McCoy takes over CMO -- that as he heads offscreen, he calls out for Nurse Chapel.
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Old May 8 2009, 10:01 AM   #546
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Re: Disappointed (Spoilers)

cultcross wrote: View Post
nokiafuturephon wrote: View Post
Galen82 wrote: View Post

dude... alternate timeline... no need for canon. You see, the everyday person can't care about canon stuff, and these are the people that the movie was hoping to attract in. The Trek fanbase doesn't bring in enough mula for the big boys up at Paramount. Not that we don't matter, but just that there's only so much we can do.

Personally, i felt it was a good film. Doesn't matter if its canon or not. Take BSG for instance, NuBSG isn't really canon either. So this Trek is kind of a reboot in an alternate timeline. Accept that, move on, and enjoy or hate it for what it is.
I'm fine with the alternate timeline. It's the time paradoxes that I consider to contradict canon.
The only 'time paradox' in the whole thing is Nero and Old Spock still being around after the future that made them is destroyed. Which is nothing new to Star Trek - it is the underlying premise of First Contact, for example.
Of course they're still around, they are in a universe branched off from their own, not their own universe. It's not their universe that changed, it's a new universe created from the point they changed the time line. Which is consistent with current theory.
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Old May 8 2009, 10:15 AM   #547
ST-One
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

firefox390 wrote: View Post
Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
No Nurse Chapel, Yeoman Rand or Number One. I know they want to get back to basics, but Chapel and Rand at least were big players in the original series and deserved some screentime. I really hope they appear in Star Trek XII.
The writers made the right decision to leave out Nurse Chapel and Yeoman Rand since there is so much that a new viewer of Trek can take in this film. However, I do agree that they should appear in STXII. If not, I will be severely disappointed.
Well, Chapel IS in the movie. If only mentioned by name
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Old May 8 2009, 10:16 AM   #548
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Zane Gray wrote: View Post
Listen carefully when you see the film next time. There's a scene in sickbay -- I THINK when McCoy takes over CMO -- that as he heads offscreen, he calls out for Nurse Chapel.
Yes he does! I've seen the movie three times now and can't fucking wait to see it tonight in English for the first time!
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Old May 8 2009, 10:32 AM   #549
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

TGTheodore wrote: View Post
pajamahead wrote: View Post
!I agree that engineering and some parts of the ships were not very advanced looking. Hopefully they will fix that in Star Trek 2.
I just chalked it up to Scotty's line from ST3: "The more they overtake the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain." I'm sure it wasn't intended that way, but it made me smile to think it might have been.


Also, the FUNNIEST thing in the film to me was the continuous "ka-CHUNK" of McCoy's hypo. It was always so gentle and quiet in TOS, so this clumsy one was too damned funny.

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Old May 8 2009, 10:34 AM   #550
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Anyone noticed the tribble that was supposed to be in the movie ?
I never saw it.
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Old May 8 2009, 10:37 AM   #551
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
Anyone noticed the tribble that was supposed to be in the movie ?
I never saw it.
On Delta Vega. Behind Scotty in a cage.
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Old May 8 2009, 10:39 AM   #552
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

ST-One wrote: View Post
SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
Anyone noticed the tribble that was supposed to be in the movie ?
I never saw it.
On Delta Vega. Behind Scotty in a cage.
Ah...I'll look for it when I see it again
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Old May 8 2009, 10:51 AM   #553
ST-One
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

Flux Capacitor wrote: View Post
nokiafuturephon wrote: View Post
Nero's actions caused many, many time paradoxes. For example, how could the actions from First Contact take place?
First Contact still happened...in a different reality than the one seen in this movie, although I'm at a loss as to why First Contact couldn't still happen in this alternate reality.
It still happend, in the past of this timeline.
The Borg and Picard's Enterprise came from another timeline (in which no time-travelers interfered with the first contact) to this one (in which 'Enterprise' occur but the Kelvin-incedent doesn't happen).
Picard and Co. then traveled back to their time (but not to their timeline - actually they should have met themselves when they returned to the 23rd century).
Now, the Narada comes from the future of this FC, Enterprise-timeline and destroyes the Kelvin, which creates a new chain of events aka a new timeline (the one we witness in this film).

So, even though we are now in a completely new timeline, the events from First Contact still happend... but they are not going to happen... (Do you now understand why temporal paradoxa give Janeway head-aches? )
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Old May 8 2009, 10:54 AM   #554
ST-One
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
ST-One wrote: View Post
SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
Anyone noticed the tribble that was supposed to be in the movie ?
I never saw it.
On Delta Vega. Behind Scotty in a cage.
Ah...I'll look for it when I see it again


You will hear is purring before you see it.
Looking forward to seeing it a third time tomorrow
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Old May 8 2009, 11:04 AM   #555
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

ST-One wrote: View Post
Flux Capacitor wrote: View Post
nokiafuturephon wrote: View Post
Nero's actions caused many, many time paradoxes. For example, how could the actions from First Contact take place?
First Contact still happened...in a different reality than the one seen in this movie, although I'm at a loss as to why First Contact couldn't still happen in this alternate reality.
It still happend, in the past of this timeline.
The Borg and Picard's Enterprise came from another timeline (in which no time-travelers interfered with the first contact) to this one (in which 'Enterprise' occur but the Kelvin-incedent doesn't happen).
Picard and Co. then traveled back to their time (but not to their timeline - actually they should have met themselves when they returned to the 23rd century).
Now, the Narada comes from the future of this FC, Enterprise-timeline and destroyes the Kelvin, which creates a new chain of events aka a new timeline (the one we witness in this film).

So, even though we are now in a completely new timeline, the events from First Contact still happend... but they are not going to happen... (Do you now understand why temporal paradoxa give Janeway head-aches? )
I'm still not seeing a paradox. Picard and crew go back from Timeline A, into the past of Timeline A. They fix what the Borg screwed up, then go back home. (One could argue that the changes made by Picard would result in the E-E returning to a slightly different universe than the one they left, since the Borg had already done some damage and the past was changed...but that only complicates things for the sake of my point.)

Then, Nero goes back from Timeline A and encounters the Kelvin. The moment the Kelvin is destroyed, Timeline A branches off into Timeline B, which is the timeline we see throughout the entire movie. This doesn't change the events that happened in FC at all.

The point of this is....that with the theory of branching alternate timelines/universes is that even if one were to go back and change an event, the original universe would continue on, unchanged. The changes made would result in a new universe being created, and only there could the changes be seen and felt.

That's why all of the complaining about canon is so pointless. Your decision to go to work tomorrow or not could effect your entire future. It's not hard to imagine that 800+ lives being altered wouldn't have an enormous impact on the universe.
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