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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old May 6 2009, 04:37 AM   #31
Basil
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Re: Does "The Doomsday Machine" Remastered Really Add To the Episode?

I was fine with the original series' take, where space battles weren't dogfights but brief contests involving powerful ships in limited engagements in the vastness of space. The SFX in the remastered version of The Doomsday Machine are more detailed, but the style of movement and camera angles is often inconsistent with the style of TOS in general, making the scenes sometimes stand out for all the wrong reasons.
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Old May 6 2009, 08:01 AM   #32
Captain Robert April
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Re: Does "The Doomsday Machine" Remastered Really Add To the Episode?

I just thought it was too damn dark. It also would've been nice if they'd make the Constellation look structurally more like the AMT model, but they didn't have the time and budget to set that up.
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Old May 6 2009, 11:25 AM   #33
Brutal Strudel
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Re: Does "The Doomsday Machine" Remastered Really Add To the Episode?

I prefer the originals to the RMs. The new effects are interesting once. After that, I want to see the episode as it was made,an artifact of its time, warts and all.
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Old May 6 2009, 02:09 PM   #34
Jeyl
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Re: Does "The Doomsday Machine" Remastered Really Add To the Episode?

Brutal Strudel wrote: View Post
an artifact of its time, warts and all.
With TRANSPARENCY!
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Old May 6 2009, 11:09 PM   #35
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Re: Does "The Doomsday Machine" Remastered Really Add To the Episode?

Dayton3 wrote: View Post
I think the phaser shots by the Enterprise were actually more realistic in Doomsday Machine.

I've seen lasers in real life and (though we're talking phasers, they should be similar) and they move so quickly they are simply there one second and gone the next. Literally on/off.

Most of Treks phasers effects have been the "energy beam pouring out of the ship" variety. Where you can actually watch the beam as it exits the Enterprise and heads toward a target.

That would never happen in real life. Though then again, in space you can't actually see beam weapons when they are fired (or so I've read).

But the "strafing run" is not consistent with dialogue.

The dialogue indicates that Decker was going to take the Enterprise in and hit the Planet Killer with "full phasers at point blank range".

Like I said, I might've like to have seen two additional angles of the Enterprise firing on the Planet Killer, but the strafing run sounds ridiculous

Actually unless the ship is totallyat a dead stop in space (stupid), a strafing run is the ONLY way to hit the PK at point blank range and still get away. It makes perfect sense with the dialgoue.

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Old May 7 2009, 02:30 AM   #36
Brutal Strudel
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Re: Does "The Doomsday Machine" Remastered Really Add To the Episode?

Jeyl wrote: View Post
Brutal Strudel wrote: View Post
an artifact of its time, warts and all.
With TRANSPARENCY!
Indeed.
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Old May 7 2009, 01:14 PM   #37
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Re: Does "The Doomsday Machine" Remastered Really Add To the Episode?

DS9Sega wrote: View Post
A few points.

a) the Enterprise appeared to be towing the Constellation in the original episode, as there is a down shot of the Constellation looking down between the Enterprise's engines that shows they are holding a relative position, and moments later Spock reports that the Planet Killer is pursuing them and that they are able to maintain their distance, and it's then that Kirk tries to beam over and the Enterprise gets clobbered. If the ship were running away without the Constellation in tow, I doubt they'd have gone to the trouble to make that effects shot of the ships facing the same way.
I'll grant you that. Still, as many episodes demonstrated, the shots don't necessarily illustrate "exactly" what was supposed to be happening, sometimes they would do the best they could to give the impression (which is why the battles as composed of individual ship shots and not composities). And since they never actually used an animated beam effect for the tractor (a feature I always liked BTW) , we have no idea if the overhead shot was supposed to represent the 1017 being towed or just the Enterprise in an "along side" sort of position. You could be absolutely right, but that's the fun part: so could I. :-)

It's the "moments later" that causes the issue, IMO. Moments later, Spock says they (which could mean just the Enterprise or both ships) are maintaining their distance.

However, Kirk doesn't even mention towing the Constellation to Spock, he even closes his communicator after giving the order to beam up Bones and Decker. He still has to "get her ready" for towing. Moments later (in the enhanced version), the Constellation is secure in the tractor beam.

The best evidence I have to support my view is the dialog regarding the tractor beam and the fact that nobody on the 1017 seems to be at all affected by the attack, since even acceleration is felt on Star Trek. However, Spock's dialog and the possibility of the original shot representing the towing could very well bring it the other way.

As much as I do really enjoy how much the episode is opened up and exciting with the enhanced effects, I generally watch the original version, transparencies, yellow phasers, AMT kit and all. I always like original versions. I've said it often (probably in this thread too), I love being able to choose on a whim.
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Old May 7 2009, 05:58 PM   #38
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Re: Does "The Doomsday Machine" Remastered Really Add To the Episode?

I love the original episode, but the poor special effects (especially the close-up of the Constellation entering the Planet Killer near the ending) take me out of the story. I feel the re-mastering is an improvement and only serves to assist the character-driven storyline.
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Old May 7 2009, 06:07 PM   #39
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Re: Does "The Doomsday Machine" Remastered Really Add To the Episode?

Hambone wrote: View Post
I love the original episode, but the poor special effects (especially the close-up of the Constellation entering the Planet Killer near the ending) take me out of the story. I feel the re-mastering is an improvement and only serves to assist the character-driven storyline.
Well put!
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Old May 7 2009, 06:27 PM   #40
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Re: Does "The Doomsday Machine" Remastered Really Add To the Episode?

Both versiions have their plusses and minuses. I was in nerd heaven the night the RM finally aired.


Ok, I was drunkl

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Old May 7 2009, 07:19 PM   #41
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Re: Does "The Doomsday Machine" Remastered Really Add To the Episode?

Hambone wrote: View Post
I love the original episode, but the poor special effects (especially the close-up of the Constellation entering the Planet Killer near the ending) take me out of the story. I feel the re-mastering is an improvement and only serves to assist the character-driven storyline.
To me it is quite the opposite. The shiny new 21st century CGI effects clash so much with everything around them that it yanks me right out of the story because it is so jarring.

But honestly, if people get pulled out of stories by shoddy FX, then perhaps they shouldn't be watching 40 year old low budget SciFi TV shows.

And a true "remastering"--which I would have welcomed-- wouldn't have added any new elements to the episodes, merely enhanced what was already there.
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Old May 7 2009, 07:26 PM   #42
Dayton3
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Re: Does "The Doomsday Machine" Remastered Really Add To the Episode?

EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post
Hambone wrote: View Post
I love the original episode, but the poor special effects (especially the close-up of the Constellation entering the Planet Killer near the ending) take me out of the story. I feel the re-mastering is an improvement and only serves to assist the character-driven storyline.
To me it is quite the opposite. The shiny new 21st century CGI effects clash so much with everything around them that it yanks me right out of the story because it is so jarring.

But honestly, if people get pulled out of stories by shoddy FX, then perhaps they shouldn't be watching 40 year old low budget SciFi TV shows.

And a true "remastering"--which I would have welcomed-- wouldn't have added any new elements to the episodes, merely enhanced what was already there.
I agree completely.

I don't mind some poor effects shots being changed (like the Constellation shaking or the transparent Planet Killer).

But I do mind when entire effects shots are radically altered (the straffing run springs to mind).

I don't mind when they insert things into episodes that are referenced in the dialogue but not seen onscreen (the Klingon ships from Errand of Mercy, the Gorn ship from Arena).
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Old May 7 2009, 07:46 PM   #43
QuasarVM
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Re: Does "The Doomsday Machine" Remastered Really Add To the Episode?

EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post
Hambone wrote: View Post
I love the original episode, but the poor special effects (especially the close-up of the Constellation entering the Planet Killer near the ending) take me out of the story. I feel the re-mastering is an improvement and only serves to assist the character-driven storyline.
To me it is quite the opposite. The shiny new 21st century CGI effects clash so much with everything around them that it yanks me right out of the story because it is so jarring.

But honestly, if people get pulled out of stories by shoddy FX, then perhaps they shouldn't be watching 40 year old low budget SciFi TV shows.

And a true "remastering"--which I would have welcomed-- wouldn't have added any new elements to the episodes, merely enhanced what was already there.
The Sci-Fi Channel already did that kind of "remaster" back in the 90's.

I like the CBS-D remaster, but I think the FX could have been more TOS looking -- or rather more 60's looking -- like Daren Dochterman's attempt at Doomsday Machine. I still would have added/changed things though here and there...
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Old May 7 2009, 07:59 PM   #44
Dayton3
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Re: Does "The Doomsday Machine" Remastered Really Add To the Episode?

QuasarVM wrote: View Post
EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post
Hambone wrote: View Post
I love the original episode, but the poor special effects (especially the close-up of the Constellation entering the Planet Killer near the ending) take me out of the story. I feel the re-mastering is an improvement and only serves to assist the character-driven storyline.
To me it is quite the opposite. The shiny new 21st century CGI effects clash so much with everything around them that it yanks me right out of the story because it is so jarring.

But honestly, if people get pulled out of stories by shoddy FX, then perhaps they shouldn't be watching 40 year old low budget SciFi TV shows.

And a true "remastering"--which I would have welcomed-- wouldn't have added any new elements to the episodes, merely enhanced what was already there.
The Sci-Fi Channel already did that kind of "remaster" back in the 90's.

I like the CBS-D remaster, but I think the FX could have been more TOS looking -- or rather more 60's looking -- like Daren Dochterman's attempt at Doomsday Machine. I still would have added/changed things though here and there...
The Sci-fi Channel never remastered any Trek episodes.

The Sci-Fi Channel showed each original series episode over the course of a 90 minute time block so they could show the shows without syndication cuts.

The result was quite bizarre. With commercial breaks appearing in the oddest places.

In the case of "The Doomsday Machine" they cut to a final series of commercials as Sulu was doing his countdown of the Constellation plunging into the Planet Killer.
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Old May 8 2009, 07:16 PM   #45
QuasarVM
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Re: Does "The Doomsday Machine" Remastered Really Add To the Episode?

Dayton3 wrote: View Post
QuasarVM wrote: View Post
EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post

To me it is quite the opposite. The shiny new 21st century CGI effects clash so much with everything around them that it yanks me right out of the story because it is so jarring.

But honestly, if people get pulled out of stories by shoddy FX, then perhaps they shouldn't be watching 40 year old low budget SciFi TV shows.

And a true "remastering"--which I would have welcomed-- wouldn't have added any new elements to the episodes, merely enhanced what was already there.
The Sci-Fi Channel already did that kind of "remaster" back in the 90's.

I like the CBS-D remaster, but I think the FX could have been more TOS looking -- or rather more 60's looking -- like Daren Dochterman's attempt at Doomsday Machine. I still would have added/changed things though here and there...
The Sci-fi Channel never remastered any Trek episodes.

The Sci-Fi Channel showed each original series episode over the course of a 90 minute time block so they could show the shows without syndication cuts.

The result was quite bizarre. With commercial breaks appearing in the oddest places.

In the case of "The Doomsday Machine" they cut to a final series of commercials as Sulu was doing his countdown of the Constellation plunging into the Planet Killer.

Um, yes...they did.

Granted they didn't redo the FX, but they went in and cleaned up the prints and all that. They made quite a big deal out of it at the time -- I don't see how you missed that point considering that was one of the big selling points of the broadcasts. They even had before and after shots on the commercials for it if memory serves.

This was back when they were running the short interviews during commercial breaks...
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