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Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
Excellent 704 63.08%
Above Average 210 18.82%
Average 83 7.44%
Below Average 43 3.85%
Poor 76 6.81%
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Old May 7 2009, 01:22 PM   #211
Evil_Kirkneivel
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

I saw the movie earlier today in Australia (my full review is here). I've been a Trek fan since about 1970, so that gives you an idea of how much of a fan I am and my approximate age.

The movie was a full-blown action film. I didn't particularly like the way the action scenes were filmed myself - too dark and muddled for my taste - but the character interaction was beautiful to watch. I felt like I was watching a true early history of Kirk, Spock, and the other crewmembers. Their core personalities were intact, which is what is important to me. Orci's Trekker status must have helped with this - he obviously knows his stuff.

Overall, I felt it had enough emotional character-based scene moments for the long-time Trek fans who are not obsessed with the details of ships and timelines (not that there's anything wrong with that), while appealing to younger viewers with its youthful cast and moments of pure thought-free action.

So, for me, I think it has rejuvenated the franchise and will assure that a younger audience will embrace Trek. Personally, I think that's a good thing. Your mileage may vary.
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Old May 7 2009, 01:39 PM   #212
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

NCC-1701 wrote: View Post
One guy commented on the cast and how perfect he found it. And I have to agree, the whole cast was perfect. I can't think of any weak link there. Although, if I had to name someone I would say that I wasn't too impressed with Leonard Nimoy. I would have never thought that I'd say that, but somehow he just didn't feel like Spock. Maybe it was the new German voice they gave him (which was good, but it just wasn't Spock). I even found most of the dialog they gave him quite predictable and rather uninspired. I groaned at his 'volle Schubkraft' (I don't know what it was what he says in the original version; maybe 'full thrust' or something like that) in the scene where Kirk gets promoted to captain. I mean, what was that supposed to mean anyway?
I saw the original version and while I didn't think Nimoy was weak, I was a bit shocked how old and fragile he looked. He doesn't sound that much like Spock anymore (I snickered when the computer in Spock's ship recognises young Spock's voice.). It was still great to see him. A few guys even cheered in the theatre. The scene where old Spock says, "full thrust" is followed by the scene on the bridge where Kirk says ist. I guess, it's supposed to show that new Kirk is still Kirk, old Spock being able to predict what he'll say because he knows him so well.
I agree about the cast. They were all great and really became the characters. I wish we would have seen a bit more of Sulu and more meaningful scenes with Scotty. But then again, this movie was mainly about Kirk and Spock.

NCC-1701 wrote: View Post
One of may favorite characters from the original has always been Chekov. I just love the guy and Walter Koenig's performance. What I didn't see coming was that I would like the new Chekov just as much. Really, I just fell in love with this character all over again! I don't know about the original version, but the German dubbed version of his Russian accent was quite heavy and many people snickered in the theatre.
The accent is heavy in the original version, too. People in the theatre kept laughing at it, even in the more dramatic scenes. We Germans really have a questionable sense of humour, I guess.

NCC-1701 wrote: View Post
I have some minor problems with the whole plot, but nothing too jarring. I found the whole chain of events (Kirk getting dropped off at Delta Vega [seems like a rather unconventional penalization when they could have easily put him into the brig instead], coincidentally running into Ambassador Spock's cave, coincidentally meeting Scotty who coincidentally knows how to transport back to the Enterprise) rather far fetched. That was just all too convenient and therefore distracting. I also find it rather hard to swallow that Nero and his crew waited for 25 years doing nothing, really!
I was surprised to find out that the Delta Vega scenario was a coincidence. Nero and his crew get little screen time and character build up, unfortunately.

Some more random thoughts:

Even though a lot of stuff looked different, this movie got the TOS feel down, especially in regards to Starfleet. It felt like the more military organisation it was in TOS, comprised of dedicated, earnest, great people. They even kept the basic design of the female uniforms and the underrepresentation of women on the bridge.
Pike was a great captain, a mentor figure and yet, badass. Then again, in this universe, a lot of people were badass.

The movie was a bit too fast-paced at times. At least, the action sequences weren't as bad as in Quantum of Solace. One had a general idea about what was going on, but I would have preferred it a bit slower, still. I miss the old days where you could easily follow an action sequence and it still looked good (I'm thinking "The Avengers").
But more importantly, I felt the movie sometimes hushed over the emotions generated by the events in the film. I mean, this has a tremendous death toll, nearly all Vulcans and the current Academy class plus many Starfleet officers. I loved the sequence where Spock is walking down the corridor while Kirk is taking over command.

Generally, the cinematography was excellent, a lot of beautiful shots and not too pseudo-artsy. However, the lens flares were slightly annoying in their mass. I don't mind one here and there, but I think it was overdone.

I could have done without a few crude jokes. The dialogues were well written and often funny (and we haven't had that in a Trek film for a while), so they could have done away with some of the slapstick scenes, especially the one where Kirk accidentally touched Uhura's breasts and where he hits his head in the shuttle (probably a hommage to Scotty hitting his head in STV).

They should have used more familiar aliens instead of making up all new ones. I liked the more alien looking ones, but it would have been nice if the nurse with the creepy eyes in the Kelvin scene would have been a humanoid alien from old Trek (a Trill maybe).

Overall, the movie felt quite rich in its details. There were a lot of hints at interesting opportunities. I feel they did an awesome job at introducing the main characters and the general setting, and now we have this blank canvas, ready for the taking. It's exciting! I really hope they do a sequel.

For me, the film hangs between 'above average' and 'excellent'. I'll see it again tonight and will reserve grading until then.
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Old May 7 2009, 01:45 PM   #213
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Okay,

I just came back from the thing and you know something - I wish I hadn't wandered in here or to any kind of talkback. Listening to the opinions of some of the detractors just reminds me that when you become so focused on all the nuts and bolts of a thing, you completely miss the point. To be entertained.

For the running time of the film, I was entertained and I felt entertained watching a great Star Trek film. Yes, it was different, I think we can all agree this isn't Roddenberry's vision but that vision isn't irrevocably gone. We have it in books, movies, thousands of hours of television and its there at our finger tips when we want it.

What I found was, quicker than I expected I warmed to the idea of these actors taking on the iconic characters I loved so much. I'll always love Shatner & Co but this does not mean that these new actors were not convincing playing younger versions with a slightly different take. Furthermore, I'm glad they didn't try to exactly mimic those performances. After thousands of hours of television and the movies, I want these character to suprise me so when Uhura plants one on Spock (woah!) I was pleasantly surprised. It didn't take away from the character of Spock but it added an interesting aspect to the character we've never really had a chance to see. We've seen his battles with emotion and control... we've seen Leonard Nimoy do it spectacularly, I like Quinto to have a different set of parameters to play with so we can get somethign we haven't seen before.

Pine as Kirk surprised me. I absolutely did not like this casting at all. Of all of the character that were recast, this one was the one I had a problem with but when he got the captaincy at the end of the film, I was delighted. Pine won me over as he's won many others over. I agree that Pegg needed to be less comic relief, Cho was excellent. Whoever described Saldana's Uhura as slutty for rejecting the advances of guys that hit on her because she has someone she cares for needs a better understanding fo the word and finally Yelchin was better than I hoped. The cast made this film believable.

What made me think this was a great film however, was even if Nimoy didn't appear, it would have been still great. There was a good storyline with a real sense of tension. When Vulcan went, you knew all bets were off, we couldn't be sure if Starfleet and San Francisco wouldn't be decimated. And Amanda's death wasn't played for shock value, it had emotional gravitas, particularly when Sarek admits why he married her to Spock later.

This film was a ride and I enjoyed it. I'm not going to drive myself nuts about all the stuff that it didn't reflect. What's the point. Those things still exist as this film exists. I'm going to enjoy both in their own right.
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Old May 7 2009, 02:08 PM   #214
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Right. 12 hours after seeing it I have a few thoughts. I don't feel overwhelmed to write a review so this is all I got. In no particular order:

a) DEFINITELY need to see it again, preferably in the evening with a large audience and not at the first 10am showing. It was very impacting on a visual level and would love to take it in again.

b) If you've followed all the released clips that have popped up on the internet, you might have the same jarring experience as me. It was terrible! "There's the clip I've seen... new stuff! Tick tick tick... there's the bit I've seen... new stuff!" I was anticipating the bits I'd seen and it made the whole ride a bit choppy.

c) We had the exposition regarding the alternate reality, yet the plot contrives to push things together when - in an alternate reality - you would assume the end result wouldn't come to pass. Of course any alternate reality is possible, but in this instance it felt forced. Be it CADET McCoy's sudden promotion to CMO of the flagship, to Scotty's fortuitous arrival on the Enterprise and to CADET Kirk in the span of days rising in rank to Captain of the Federation Flagship. Was it his reward for the strategy he devised to save planet Earth? Was saving Earth such a big once-offer that they thought "what the hell, let's see how he goes?" In any event, he set a record.

On the subject of forced, I wonder if the relationship between Kirk and Spock was melded solely because Nimoy's Spock *told* them it was meant to be. We certainly witnessed the hostility develop between them, but the way Spock basically gets on with it and is *informed* of how his relationship with Kirk should be, followed by him hopping on as First Officer, didn't sit well with me. If their relationship had developed organically within the new timeline to emerge out of their dislike into the legendary bond they would eventually hold, I would have been suitably impressed.

d) I was underwhelmed by Nero. He was an instrument to bring the crew together for future adventures without the hindrance of canon, in the end. But he could have used a little more development. Further, his last lines along the lines of "I'd rather watch Romulus burn a hundred times than take help from you" detract from his main motivation of saving the world he loves. Had he just completely just lost the plot? If restoring his empire minus the Feds was his goal - stuff Spock! Just annihilate them then and there as opposed to waiting 25 years just to show off. Very odd.

As for "I should have killed you when I had the chance." ? Well yes, you probably should've as opposed to plucking out one of the oldest villain cliches of letting the hero go only to regret it later.

e) Cool moments: Opening, man. What a friggin' opening! A bit like First Contact, in a way (saving the all out space brawl for first). I had goosebumps and the shakes! They certainly didn't muck around.

I'm glad I know what I'm in for second time round. Having followed the development of this film from day one I was so conscious throughout the film I was *actually* watching it.

I hope in the next viewing I can sit back and absorb it along with everyone else, minus the incredible backlog of information in the back of my brain I have about it.
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Old May 7 2009, 02:22 PM   #215
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

It was very pretty and I think it will do what it is meant to do, bring in people who aren't trek fans. I went with non-Trek people and they said it was okay. The main thing they didn't really get was the red matter, I think their comments were along the lines of were they just meant to "buy it".

I was really disappointed in Nero, not in Bana's performance but in the amount of time they spent on him. It was a waste of Bana really, they could have had a no-name do the same thing. Nero wasn't particularly interesting...though we don't really see him die and given he was in a black hole/time hole I hope that they would bring him back and flesh him out.

The action was good. The few silence in space moments were well done. I understand why they didn't show the Fed fleet getting destroyed but it would have been nice to see the Naranda actually appear to be a super-powerful ship and smash the Fed fleet or seeing the Klingons getting smacked. It is from over a century in the future but it couldn't even destroy the Kelvin or wipe out its escaping shuttles without having it rammed down its throat.

The acting was fine and the only negative comments from the group I went with was that Pine was a jerk and that George Kirk was annoying.

I gave it an above average and in my personal movie ranking this movie would rank fifth in the list.
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Old May 7 2009, 02:23 PM   #216
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

WAIT.

Captain Robert April saw the movie?!

I thought he said he wasn't going to see it.

Well maybe he had an open mind about it.

You mean he didn't?

Oh well, I guess around here you get to have your cake and eat it too.

Well, that's OK. Star Trek is a big enough tent for everyone.
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Old May 7 2009, 02:41 PM   #217
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

urbandk wrote: View Post
WAIT.

Captain Robert April saw the movie?!

I thought he said he wasn't going to see it.
No one ever really believed that.

Well maybe he had an open mind about it.

You mean he didn't?
Of course not. Maybe the second or third time...
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Old May 7 2009, 02:49 PM   #218
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Was there anything post credits? I only watched up to the text scroll against black background.
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Old May 7 2009, 02:52 PM   #219
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Only the dedication to Gene Roddenberry and Majel Barrett Roddenberry.
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Old May 7 2009, 02:55 PM   #220
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

And the ping sound
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Old May 7 2009, 03:04 PM   #221
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Sky wrote: View Post
Only the dedication to Gene Roddenberry and Majel Barrett Roddenberry.
Might sound rude but not really worth going to see the movie again just to see that. I'll most likely wind up with the DVD so I can view it then.
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Old May 7 2009, 03:05 PM   #222
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Just got back from seeing it.

Awesome.

I'll collect my thoughts and write something a little more verbose in the coming days, but that'll do for now
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Old May 7 2009, 03:06 PM   #223
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Mutenroshi wrote: View Post
And the ping sound
yeah that was a nice touch.
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Old May 7 2009, 03:52 PM   #224
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

*** Copying over my review last week from the original spoiler thread:

I had the pleasure of getting to watch the movie last night at a Denver advance/press screening. A few random observations:

- First off, I absolutely loved the movie. Yes, I was bummed when I found out (ahead of time) about Vulcan. But I'm telling you, Vulcan's destruction absolutely gives this film the emotional impact and gravitas it needs and elevates this movie so far above every other Trek film in the last couple of decades. I'm angry that Vulcan got destroyed, but I'm not angry with JJ, Orci, etc. On the contrary, I applaud them for their boldness. Instead, I'm angry with Nero. And isn't that the whole point? I CARE about what happened in this movie - it has resonance, it MATTERS. When Kirk and Sulu are trying to take out the drill, I'm actually sitting there hoping against all odds that they can succeed. When they don't, it sucks. It sucks that Vulcan is gone. But it also means the events of this film have meaningful implications. No lazy reset button. And Star Trek is better for it.

- With one exception, every actor was fantastic. I'll stop short of saying that Chris Pine now "owns" the role that William Shatner originated, but I will say that Pine was absolutely wonderful in the part and will very likely vault himself to superstardom as a result. His role as a developing Kirk involves a lot more physical and subtle comedy than Shatner had to do, and Pine knocks it out of the park. Quinto is equally brilliant as he struggles to balance the emotion and the logic. Nimoy is heartbreaking as Spock, in a good way. Saldana brings Uhura to life in a way that I've never seen before. Her very unexpected romance with Spock is great, as you see her dancing around his emotional control problems. That said, Spock never takes anything out on Uhura. She's basically his rock, it seems. Urban is like watching DeForest reincarnated - 'nuff said. Yelchin actually made Chekov likable again, which is a high praise from me as I was not formerly a Chekov fan. Yelchin's wide-eyed excitement is infectious. Simon Pegg was the big surprise for me. I expected his Scotty to absolutely pale in comparison to Doohan, but Pegg was fricking hilarious! Definitely a slightly "goofier" Scotty than I'm used to seeing, but Pegg just nailed the excitable nature of Scotty. I'm sure his little assistant will annoy some folks (particularly when he shows up on the Enterprise at the end as a crewman, apparently), but I thought the little guy was awesome. Especially when he seemed to tear up when Scotty leaves him earlier in the film. John Cho lacks the bass rumble of Takei, as many have stated, but he also brings a new badassedness and overall humor to the character. In fact, their initial moment leaving spacedock almost seemed like a bit of a nod to Galaxy Quest, when the helmsman didn't seem to know what he was doing for a sec. But all doubt about Sulu's abilities is erased by the end of the film, and his swordfight atop the drill was, in a word, awesome. Ryder brings a quiet dignity to Amanda. Would have liked to see a bit more screentime for her, and I'm sorry that the baby Spock stuff was cut. That said, when her section of the cliff begins to fall just as the transporter tries to take hold, it's absolutely gut-wrenching. That scene really stayed with me, particularly when Spock rematerializes on the transporter pad, hand outstretched, shock etched on his features. Bana is interesting as Nero. His character seems a bit all over the place, sometimes very formal, sometimes almost comically casual with how he addresses people. But 100% scary when he's mad. The only weak point for me was Ben Cross as Sarek. For some reason, he just didn't do it for me, lacking the deeper qualities that Mark Lenard could convey in the role with a mere look.

- Architecturally, the hanging buildings on Vulcan were visually interesting, descending down from various rock formations. The Vulcan training pods, where young Spock has a fight, were a little "Attack of the Clones-ish" for my taste, but okay.

- I loved all the Kelvin stuff. Seeing George Kirk in action is well worth the wait, even if his final dialogue with Winona is a little soap opera-ish as it progresses. Also, the eyes of baby Jim's delivery nurse = pure weirdness.

- I know the Klingon stuff got cut, but I was very surprised at the lack of well-known alien Federation races. I didn't see any Andorians, Tellarites, etc., though maybe I just missed them in the crowd scenes. The new aliens are great, some subtle, some very imaginative, but I would have loved a glimpse at more of the "classic" aliens.

- The brief 2 minute scene that establishes Nimoy Spock's and Nero's history together is seriously waaaay too brief and could have used a lot more explanation for the average movie-goer. I had read the Countdown prequel comic series ahead of time, which I'm very grateful for, as Nero's history and motivations are so much better explained there. I think they did Nero a severe disservice in this film but not devoting a little more time to his backstory. Don't get me wrong - I want to watch Kirk and Company most of all (in other words, I don't want another Shinzon-style villain where he's being given more screentime than the main characters), but I do think they should have devoted just a bit more time to Nero to flesh him out. As it stands, his personality remains slightly unclear if you're going just by the movie.

- I'd heard there was going to be lots of humor in the film, but I was pleasantly surprised that A) it actually WAS funny, and B) they were able to work in the funny moments in unobtrusive ways. Such as the looks on Kirk's and Scotty's faces when they witness Spock and Uhura kissing on the transporter pad. Or Kirk and Spock's quick conversation before they decide what to do about Nero at the end. And lots of little "physical comedy" bits that really played well. It's when they go the other extreme - Kirk's swollen hands, Scotty's trip through the engineering tubes - that the humor falls a bit flatter. That said, I'm sure some of the audience will still love that stuff too.

- Love the new warp effect. I don't mean the warp tunnel itself, which I also like. I'm talking about watching a ship going into warp. It's literally like a gunshot. Very cool effect.
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Old May 7 2009, 04:48 PM   #225
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
Pink skinned Vulcans Y'know, JJ, there was a reason they painted Nimoy yellow way back when, and it's because of that green Vulcan blood.
I agree. However, it's such a minor thing that it didn't deter me from enjoying the film at all. I mean, c'mon, it's a tiny nitpick.

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
The Kelvin 800 people made it off, after getting the crap kicked out it, which killed how many? And this is supposed to be a pre-TOS ship? Sorry, but that bucket reeked more of TNG, both in capacity and in the crew complement, which apparently included families, another TNG contrivance that didn't make it past "Generations" (the Enterprise-E doesn't have families on board). The interiors also indicated a much more
massive ship, on the order of a Galaxy class starship.
I think this is because the new Star Trek movie is a completely separate movie from TOS. The reason the Kelvin is bigger and different from TOS ships and all is because it's not pre-TOS. Despite the lip-service from JJ and the writers, this movie's universe doesn't diverge from the old universe at the Kelvin attack, because this movie's universe was never the same as the old one.

I might be in the minority here, but it's pretty obvious this didn't take place before TOS and then it diverged, it was always a separate universe.

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
And my complaint about Spock still remains: He knows how to achieve a time warp, and he knows precisely what happened when, why it happened, and how to circumvent those events. So why doesn't he get a ship, do a few time jumps, and fix everything that got screwed up? He could not only restore the timeline, but finally cement a lasting peace between the Romulan Empire and the Federation.

So why doesn't he do this?
Spock has no time-travel capability at all. The only reason he was thrown through time in the first place was because he was accidentally sucked into an accidentally created unstable time/blackhole.


Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
The choice of "Crap on a stick" isn't available, so I voted "Poor".
I'm actually kind of glad you didn't like it. We all know Star Trek has some crazy fans. But in order for it to move forward and increase in quality then it'll have to keep what's good from the past incarnation, while trying new and different things and separating from some of the ridiculous and retarded aspects. And that is unavoidabley going to upset the anals. So the fact that you are upset I think is a good sign for Star Trek.
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