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Old May 5 2009, 01:59 AM   #226
Nimitz CO
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Re: Excelsior Technical Manual - Revived!

Here is the emblem for the USS Excelsior NX-2000 that was used when the ship was considered experimental and going through her space trials

http://s699.photobucket.com/albums/v...al%20Graphics/
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Old May 5 2009, 03:09 AM   #227
ShinRa Actual
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Re: Excelsior Technical Manual - Revived!

I haven't had time to sit and read through all six pages here, but a few things I noted and wanted to drop some thoughts on, so apologies if they've already been hashed to death;

re; Transwarp failing or not.
I personally like to stick with the 'common' theory that it didn't quite pan out, but on the flip side to reinforce the fellow who mentioned the Ent-A's Okudagrams mentioning Transwarp, the old Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise mentions in it's last chapter about the Ent-A (...which was appearently named "Ti-Ho" previously -shudder-) that the -A had Transwarp as well.

re; Length of refit
Rather than attempting to come to some conclusion on the length of one large refit, have you thought about most of the changes not being the result of one refit, but several? Excelsior in many ways can compare to Battleship North Carolina; North Carolina was the first Battleship built in almost 20 years, and incorporated a lot of new experimental technology. As a result, her shakedown period was considerably longer than the following Battleships of the period, and she gained the nickname of "Showboat" because she was constantly shuttling back and forth between sea trials and yard periods. Considering Excelsior is the pathfinder for all manner of new technologies, it's more likely that her first few years in service were similarly spent working out all the kinks, with technology that didn't pan out being removed as needed, and other changes being done similarly. Certaintly there isn't as much major structural changes between ST3 and ST6 compared to the TOS and TMP Enterprise to warrant a single refit lasting more than a few months, if that long. However, having the ship going through ongoing testing and parts swapping for those years is definately plausible, especially if the class concept goes through some kind of role change.

I am curious, since I haven't seen any mention of it thus far, but is there any link between the tech manual you're writing, and the "Space Control Ship" history that was in the Ships of the Starfleet book that came out in the 90s?
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Old May 5 2009, 09:41 PM   #228
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Re: Excelsior Technical Manual - Revived!

Okay, time to pick this back up.

RapidNadion wrote: View Post
I wonder if you'd consider avoiding use of the term "dorsal" to describe the necklike structure connecting the primary and secondary hulls. I don't know where that use of the term originated, but it's always irked me as it's (AFAIK) a completely improper use of the word. How about "interhull" as an alternative?

Also, you may have described your reasons for this in greater detail, but if so I missed it: it was a little disappointing to hear just how much void space there is in your Excelsior design. IIRC, most of the aforementioned interhull and secondary hull are full of a whole lot of nothing. Is this to keep the ship's mass in line with a previously-established figure?
Hopefully you'll be pleased with some clarifications that I made in this revision, then. I realized that I may have been making it sound like most of the ship was empty, which I didn't intend to be the case. A lot of the interhull () is empty because it previously contained transwarp equipment (cooling and other support systems, mostly) that was ripped out when that proved a failure. So that leaves a lot of space for 'future expansion' which I'm thinking might have proved beneficial to the design's survivability.

And yes, I've conceived the 'hollow volume' of the secondary hull as being a concession to keep the ship's mass in line with engine power. I've also decided, to accommodate the various incarnations of that 'pod' within the volume that the entire shuttlebay 'gondola' is swappable. Most ships have a shuttlebay there, but other ships might have an engineering support bay, cargo bay, or what-have-you.

RapidNadion wrote: View Post
I can't wait until we get to the nacelles. Please tell me you're going to spend at least a good chunk of a chapter on field grills and flux chillers!
Naturally.

RapidNadion wrote: View Post
BTW, hats off to Nimitz CO for the development project mission logos and the cover design. Seeing the "possible cover" was the first thing that made me believe I could actually see this thin in print one day -- even if it was just a limited run for the folks on this BBS. I know I'd buy one, Praetor.
Yeah, my hat is really off to Nimitz CO. His good work has actually made me feel like this might actually be a finishable product!

RapidNadion wrote: View Post
(And if that happens, consider me at your disposal to record an audio version -- long-form voiceover is what I do.)

Looking forward to more of this wonderful work.
Ooh, good to know and thank you very much on all counts. Even if it never gets published, we might have to do an audio-book form for kicks.

ShinRa Actual wrote: View Post
I haven't had time to sit and read through all six pages here, but a few things I noted and wanted to drop some thoughts on, so apologies if they've already been hashed to death;

re; Transwarp failing or not.
I personally like to stick with the 'common' theory that it didn't quite pan out, but on the flip side to reinforce the fellow who mentioned the Ent-A's Okudagrams mentioning Transwarp, the old Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise mentions in it's last chapter about the Ent-A (...which was appearently named "Ti-Ho" previously -shudder-) that the -A had Transwarp as well.
Yeah - there's no such thing as hashing to death in my book!

And, I have purposefully avoided trying to contradict information regarding the Enterprise-A as much as possible, so people can believe what they want to. I know that the TNG TM and related publications suggest that the E-A was the old Yorktown, and some like Mr. Johnson, suggest it was the Ti-Ho. I prefer that the E-A was a new-build testbed, because I think it just makes more sense with the on-screen evidence. It might have been called Yorktown or Ti-Ho. My only purpose was to establish 1) it was a new build that proved unsuccessful, both explaining the E-A's early retirement and why Starfleet would favor Excelsiors instead of refit Connies, and 2) that it was not the original Yorktown.

So in the long and short of it, the E-A may indeed have had transwarp when she was first cobbled together. Somehow I imagine that by the time the old crew got their hands on her, the transwarp drive would have either been reconfigured or refit into standard warp drive - maybe even by Scotty himself.

ShinRa Actual wrote: View Post
Rather than attempting to come to some conclusion on the length of one large refit, have you thought about most of the changes not being the result of one refit, but several? Excelsior in many ways can compare to Battleship North Carolina; North Carolina was the first Battleship built in almost 20 years, and incorporated a lot of new experimental technology. As a result, her shakedown period was considerably longer than the following Battleships of the period, and she gained the nickname of "Showboat" because she was constantly shuttling back and forth between sea trials and yard periods. Considering Excelsior is the pathfinder for all manner of new technologies, it's more likely that her first few years in service were similarly spent working out all the kinks, with technology that didn't pan out being removed as needed, and other changes being done similarly. Certainly there isn't as much major structural changes between ST3 and ST6 compared to the TOS and TMP Enterprise to warrant a single refit lasting more than a few months, if that long. However, having the ship going through ongoing testing and parts swapping for those years is definitely plausible, especially if the class concept goes through some kind of role change.
That, actually, is quite along the lines of what I was thinking, although I hadn't realized the extent to which the North Carolina compared to it. It was my belief that all that time she appears to spend sitting in Spacedock in TSFS-TVH-TFF not only had to do with the failure of transwarp but also with working out the kinks as you suggest. (And, being from North Carolina, and having been aboard the North Carolina in Wilmington, I must say she's a fine ship.) Perhaps I should inject the Excelsior history with a bit more U.S.S. North Carolina flavor.

ShinRa Actual wrote: View Post
I am curious, since I haven't seen any mention of it thus far, but is there any link between the tech manual you're writing, and the "Space Control Ship" history that was in the Ships of the Starfleet book that came out in the 90s?
Actually, I do plan to acknowledge it. It has its own appendix at the end of my tech part. There was a throwaway reference to it in the history section, which was hopefully vague enough for anyone to ignore, that NCC-2001 went from being slated to be Enterprise to Ingram, which was an attempt to make a 'Space Control Ship' out of what was quickly becoming a 'failure.' And that is basically my take on it - that Ingram was built to quite different specifications and formed its own subclass.

Of course, given that we never saw them on screen, it's my belief that they were less successful than the Excelsior, and, being even more limited in role, met with the same problem that dreadnoughts did (i.e., not having anything to do) and hit the chopping block in the early 24th century as a part of the decommissioning/disarmament concessions to the Klingons.

But again, my point is that there's hopefully enough wiggle room to accept what you want to. I want to stay as close to canon as possible but I don't want to purposefully step on anyone's toes.
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Old May 5 2009, 09:41 PM   #229
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Re: Excelsior Technical Manual - Revived!

And now, without further ado:
The following was written in 2290 following the Excelsior's operational refit after the failure of the Transwarp Development Project to familiarize new crew and Starfleet brass alike with the new ship. It describes the ship in its original condition as of launch in that year, and compares the ship's initial fittings in 2284 to the equipment later installed for her service career. Appendices follow outlining the evolution of the design in the subsequent years, 'cousins' developed from the class, and a list of noteworthy ships. In her exhibition as part of the Fleet Museum's collection, Excelsior has been cosmetically restored to her 2290 status. This summary is one of several historic documents prepared for display at the Excelsior Exhibit.

Excelsior Class Technical Familiarization Resource


Structural Overview

The Excelsior’s design drew upon the now-traditional primary/secondary hull configuration first introduced in the Daedalus class of the late twenty-second century, implemented with the goal of using compartmentalization to increase shipboard safety and survivability in the event of a systems-wide failure or similar catastrophe. The Excelsior’s space-frame consists of five integrated main assemblies: the primary hull (saucer section), and the engineering section which consists of the interconnecting dorsal “neck,” secondary hull, warp nacelle pylon assembly, and twin warp nacelles. Each sub-assembly was constructed separately and then mated in drydock in synchronus Earth orbit. Overall vessel dimensions are as follows: Length, 467.05 meters; Beam, 177.21 meters; Height, 74.93 meters.

The primary hull, more commonly known as the “saucer section,” houses the main command facilities, including the main and auxiliary bridges and the main computer core, as well as crew accommodations and support facilities including food preparation and laundry systems. It also contains the main dorsal and ventral sensor platforms, and the ten primary phaser banks. A block-like section extending aft along the longitudinal axis of the saucer section also houses the impulse reaction system and upper intermix chamber, which extends downward towards the deflector alcove in the secondary hull. Overall saucer dimensions are as follows: Length, 198.51 meters; Beam, 177.21 meters; Height, 30.71 meters.

The interconnecting dorsal/interhull is one of the components of the engineering section, the so-called 'neck' of the ship where the saucer section mates to the secondary hull. An oddity in Federation starship design, the interhull is anachronistically referred to as the 'interconnecting dorsal' due to the structure's origins as a sort of dorsal fin of the secondary hull structure, somewhat analogous to the fins of many cetacean animals. In the history of starship design, the dorsal was originally conceived as a means of safely delineating the command/habitat from potentially hazardous engineering/supply systems, much as the warp nacelle pylons allow the warp nacelles to be mounted at a comfortable distance from the rest of the ship. The Excelsior's interhull was riginally fitted with transwarp field cooling, monitoring and refinement equipment (its very horseshoe-shaped horizontal cross-sections defined by warp field dynamics), it is now primarily unused space, save the intermix chamber which spans it vertically, and related equipment. Auxiliary crew quarters and freight space can be found here, along with inertial damper systems. The unused space has been repurposed for projected harware upgrades during the ship's operational lifetime.

The secondary hull itself is the main component of the engineering section. It is roughly cylindrical, with a flattened dorsal, stretched eliptical horizontal cross-section and roughly half-circular vertical cross-section. The concept of the engineering section was originally conceived to safely separate potentially hazardous engineering and supply systems from the primary habitat and control areas of the ship, and as such houses main engineering and the primary warp power systems, including the antimatter storage systems, as well as the deflector dish. The lower section of the secondary hull is a mostly hollow structure (owing to a compromise between the demands of ship's power versus mass), it houses the Main Cargo Storage Facility, the Shuttlebay One module. Shuttlebay Two (at the aft fantail of the dorsal plane), and the four torpedo tubes (two fore, two aft) are found aft. Overall secondary hull dimensions are: Length, 271.79 meters; Beam, 58.76 meters; Height, 43.93 meters.

The warp nacelle pylon assembly is composed of an elliptical dome from which the twin nacelle struts extend, its shape is streamlined for greater warp performance. The dome houses the main plasma manifold and EPS system, as well as various engineering support systems. Continuing the Starfleet practice of compartmentalization to increase safety, and the entire unit may be jettisoned from the remainder of the ship in an emergency. (Ideally, this would occur at subluminal speeds. Survivability from a nacelle ejection while at warp is dubious.) The massive twin warp nacelles are mounted securely atop the twin support pylons. They are roughly shaped like truncated squares in cross-section, and taper to their aft ends. Overall warp nacelle unit dimensions are as follows: Length, 247.08 meters, Beam, 17.70 meters; Height, 20.33 meters.


Deck One (A-Deck)

Deck one is a fairly large space extending across the very top of the primary hull spar aft towards the impulse engines. However, the only habitable volume of the deck consists of the main bridge/briefing room area at the front, which is sunken nearly two meters into a protective ring structure. The bridge is an interchangeable module designed for swapout at regular refit intervals to facilitate easier control system upgrades. In keeping with Starfleet tradition, the bridge is a circular room lined with various instrument stations necessary for the operation of a modern starship.

The uninhabitable space of Deck One contains numerous systems. The protective ring around the bridge module contains auxiliary battery power and life support systems for emergency use. A bar extending aft from this unit contains the primary high-gain subspace antenna, and is flanked on either side by the uppermost portions of the dorsal sensor platform within raised hull flats. Excelsior is equipped with an extensive suite of all modern sensor palettes.

Aft of this at the deck’s rear are the upper housing for the twin deflection crystals that top the intermix chamber and the upper impulse systems, including the radiative cooling unit baffles and fins. When she was originally launched, Excelsior mounted a single, large deflection crystal atop her intermix chamber. The deflection crystal allows warp power to be directly channeled to supplement the impulse system. However, flight tests indicated that a single large crystal was prone to developing potentially dangerous micro-fractures under high load, so the ship’s 2287 refit and warp core replacement saw the installation of a pair of smaller, more conventional deflection crystals capable of the same workload. These units have proven far more reliable and stable than the previous configuration, although some future Excelsior class ships are expected to retain the single-unit design if further research makes it workable as is theorized.


Main Bridge

Almost all modern Starfleet ships are equipped with ejectable bridge modules, designed to be easily replaced to extend the operational lifetime of a starship, and doubling as a last-ditch lifeboat for the command crew in the event of a shipwide catastrophic systems failure. According to Starfleet regulations, the bridge module is to only be ejected once all hands have been already ordered to lifeboats. Starfleet does not favor the antiquated notion of 'the captain going down with the ship.' The Excelsior is no exception.

The bridge module originally equipped to the Excelsior at her commissioning in 2284 was quite different from the one installed during the 2287 refit for her operational career, but the two still retain similar Starfleet characteristics. The 2284 bridge module was designed around the operation of the transwarp drive. It did not contain an observation lounge as on the new module, but was still an efficient control space. The room was a perfect circle, with a single turbolift directly aft and a large viewscreen forward, comprising nearly one-third of the room’s wall space, with small secondary exit doors to either side (leading to a surrounding corridor). The remaining wall space was dedicated to control consoles. A “pedestal” in the center of the room mounted (for the first time) separate helm and navigation consoles, with Helm at starboard and navigation at port. The Captain’s chair was directly aft of these consoles.

The Captain’s chair, and indeed all the bridge chairs, was quite unusual and characteristic of Excelsior’s early career. They all sported large inertial restraint arms that some crew nicknamed “bear arms,” so described because in transwarp flight these massive arms were programmed to automatically grab and securely hold the seat’s occupant. Also for the first time, Starfleet adopted the use of touch-screen “Okudagram” control surfaces, so named after their inventor, Dr. Michael Okuda, a computer systems analyst at the ASDB. These controls were far more sophisticated and versatile than their push-button predecessors, and could be reconfigured for specific needs far more easily. Okudagram interfaces evolved in sophistication quickly and soon became the fleet-wide standard. “Bear arm” chairs, however, heralded the end of physical seating restraints in favor of interwoven gravity cushions and better intertial damper systems. (Indeed, the practical usefulness of seat restraints aboard starships is now felt to be dubious at best.)

The Excelsior’s 2287 refit and transwarp drive removal prompted the replacement of the 2284 bridge module, and Starfleet took the opportunity to equip her with something even more modern and cutting-edge. The new module retained the circular dome-shape for the bridge with Okudagram touch-screens, but is distinctly different from its predecessor. Two turbolift stations service this bridge, one each at port and starboard. The viewscreen remains virtually unchanged, but is slightly smaller, and gone are the forward corridor access doors.

Standard configuration for the stations lining the bridge walls include: engineering support, propulsion, communications, and tactical monitoring at port; three dedicated science stations and a small master control monitoring station at starboard. The upgraded Captain’s chair and helm and nav consoles retained nearly the same locations on a platform level with the perimeter stations. A small table was installed in front of the Captain’s chair (at Captain Sulu's request) for his convenience. An alcove at the aft of the bridge houses the new master situation display, a graphic of the ship that allows the Captain to view the ship’s status at a glance over his shoulder. Doors flank the MSD, which allow access to the new briefing room/observation lounge, and an adjacent head for the bridge crew’s use.


Briefing Room/Observation Lounge

The new observation lounge provides an unparalleled view of the aft portion of the ship and the warp nacelles, and was designed to allow the senior staff a more convenient location for mission briefings. It features a long, slightly curved table fitted with computer access systems and chairs for each member of the senior staff. Each end wall is fitted with a fairly sizable viewscreen and data interface for briefing sessions. The inner wall is decorated with art and other personal decorations provided by the Captain. The Captain may also use the room as a ready room if so desired to relax when situations require his proximity to the bridge.


Deck Two (B Deck)

Deck two is an almost fully habitable deck that forms the uppermost part of the primary hull dorsal spar. It features the centrally-located top of the main computer data transfer trunk, where it mates with the bottom of the bridge module. The trunk spans the space from the main processors on deck seven up to the bottom of the bridge module at the top of deck two, facilitating rapid data transfer to key command areas in the saucer. Additional data transfer conduits branch from the central trunk like branches of a tree, eventually stepping down to transfer conduits mere millimeters in diameter where they meet control interfaces. The ship’s fourteen science labs are located on this deck, adjoining the computer core trunk, where they are directly fed data by the dorsal sensor platform above. In addition, quarters for VIPs such as diplomats and admirals are found on this level. In a small uninhabitable section at the front of this deck are additional sensor modules for the dorsal sensor platform, with related systems.

The top of the main stairwell is located aft. The stairwell provides auxiliary access to all the ship's decks in the event of a turbolift system failure or emergency evacuation. Further aft is the lower deflection crystal housing, with a dedicated monitoring room. The crystals shed brilliant patterns of light across the room’s bulkheads as they surge with raw power, just atop the warp intermix chamber. Aft of this is the upper part of the multi-level impulse reaction system, including the upper parts of the fusion reactors and coolings systems, and the twin engine assemblies and exhaust units.


VIP Quarters

These quarters provide accommodation for visiting officers, ambassadors and their spouses, and Federation government officials, among others. Each stateroom is composed of two areas that are separated by a retractable partition. The room's entrance opens into the sleeping area, which is generally outfitted with two twin beds. A translucent door leads into the bathroom area, which features both a sonic shower and a jacuzzi tub, as well as an adjacent clothes closet.

The other half of the stateroom is a work and living area. A library computer and work desk are provided for guest use, for which instructions are provided. A circular dining booth is provided for guests who prefer to eat alone or work privately during their meal. A viewscreen station stands against one wall. Here, guests may contact their home worlds by subspace radio, if necessary, or may simply choose from thousands of entertainment files from the ship's computers for viewing. A small storage closet is provided for those with luggage or small personal cargo which cannot be stored in the cargo decks. Personal items may be stored on a bookshelf above the beds, or in a set of roll-top cabinets in the living area wall. A food slot is also provided for guest convenience.


Impulse Reaction Systems

Impulse engines are the main form of propulsion at sublight speeds aboard a starship; they are used for travel within a solar system or areas of space where warp drive can not function. The engine is a basic fusion system with vectored exhaust, not unlike a solid propellant rocket of the past. The standard speed for impulse power is .25c, but engines can propel a ship into the .8c range at the cost of time dilation effects.

Impulse engines have changed little since their inception over 100 years ago. The impulse engines found on Excelsior are made up of three main parts, and are the largest ever constructed. First is the impulse reaction chamber, where deuterium slush is fed in and a fusion reaction takes place. Excelsior has ten fusion reactors, five per engine. Each of these units can be ejected in an emergency. The plasma created by the fusion process is then fed into the second stage of the impulse engine, the accelerator/generator. During space flight mode the plasma is accelerated by the second stage and passed onto the third stage. The A/G can also use part of the impulse engines' power to supply ships systems by feeding the plasma into the ship's EPS lines. The engines are able to drive the ship and provide power simultaneously if needed. Conversely, warp power from the intermix chamber can be channeled through the deflection crystals into the impulse engines to provide power for them. The final stage of the impulse engine is the vectored exhaust director. This stage directs the flow of the impulse engine exhaust to allow free movement of the ship on any axis.

Traveling at high impulse speed, greater then .25c, has a price. Since it is sub-warp speed, general relativity still applies. As impulse speed increases past .75c, time slows down aboard the ship and passes faster in the rest of the universe. Starfleet regulations specify the avoidance of high impulse velocity except in extreme circumstances. Current research into mass-reduction impulse systems, akin to low-power warp nacelles, could one day provide a means of reducing these relativistic effects, but true breakthroughs in the area are likely fifty years or more away.
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Old May 5 2009, 10:11 PM   #230
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Re: Excelsior Technical Manual - Revived!

Nimitz CO wrote: View Post
Thanks for that Praetor, I'm glad that you like them. Here are 2 more for you. The first is a proposed cover for the Technical Manual and the second is a Project SV-20 Development Emblem. Hope you like them.

http://s699.photobucket.com/albums/v...al%20Graphics/
Hmm...some of those elements look oddly familiar...
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Old May 6 2009, 12:39 AM   #231
ShinRa Actual
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Re: Excelsior Technical Manual - Revived!

Praetor wrote: View Post
Okay, time to pick this back up.
I prefer that the E-A was a new-build testbed, because I think it just makes more sense with the on-screen evidence. It might have been called Yorktown or Ti-Ho. My only purpose was to establish 1) it was a new build that proved unsuccessful, both explaining the E-A's early retirement and why Starfleet would favor Excelsiors instead of refit Connies, and 2) that it was not the original Yorktown.
My personal opinion (and my adherance to the old salt's opinion on renaming a ship) is that the Ent-A was a new ship, and definately not the Yorktown mentioned in STIV and TOS before that. That being said, she may have been ordered with another prospective name before it being decided to change the name to have another Enterprise in service ASAP. (such as Yorktown, Lexington, and Wasp during WWII)

Praetor wrote: View Post
So in the long and short of it, the E-A may indeed have had transwarp when she was first cobbled together. Somehow I imagine that by the time the old crew got their hands on her, the transwarp drive would have either been reconfigured or refit into standard warp drive - maybe even by Scotty himself.
Scott's Guide only covered the TVH Ent-A as I recall...is there any mention of Transwarp on the TFF Graphics anywhere? If not, the Transwarp stuff being removed may have been part of the reason of the -A's...less than stellar condition during TFF.

Praetor wrote: View Post
(And, being from North Carolina, and having been aboard the North Carolina in Wilmington, I must say she's a fine ship.) Perhaps I should inject the Excelsior history with a bit more U.S.S. North Carolina flavor.
Having driven from Florida to NY many times, I've been to see the Showboat several times (and other memorials). North Carolina is one of the best ones to visit, imho.

Praetor wrote: View Post
There was a throwaway reference to it in the history section, which was hopefully vague enough for anyone to ignore, that NCC-2001 went from being slated to be Enterprise to Ingram, which was an attempt to make a 'Space Control Ship' out of what was quickly becoming a 'failure.' And that is basically my take on it - that Ingram was built to quite different specifications and formed its own subclass.
Ingram was, a copy of the configuration can be found over at the old SSDB; http://shipschematics.net/startrek/i...ser_ingram.jpg
The implication I got from the old SotSF book was more along the lines that Excelsior was the one that was the 'modified' version, which would explain why the Ingram has a slightly more 1701-Refit style to it. Another fanon book series that tried being a continuation of the SotSF books stated that Sulu was involved in having Excelsior refit from a fast Battleship into a more exploratory-minded ship (I can try and find the links to those if you're interested) which helped the class move beyond the failed Transwarp Battleship project into the more general purpose ship they evidently became between ST6 and TNG.

Praetor wrote: View Post
Of course, given that we never saw them on screen, it's my belief that they were less successful than the Excelsior, and, being even more limited in role, met with the same problem that dreadnoughts did (i.e., not having anything to do) and hit the chopping block in the early 24th century as a part of the decommissioning/disarmament concessions to the Klingons.
I actually put that forth as a theory for why the -A was withdrawn from service a while back; The arms reduction treaty with the Klingons mandated removing ships from service. While the -A herself was fairly new...the design was old (dating back 50 years if you consider it a direct lineage to 2245). In the end run, Starfleet would probably want another new Excelsior (or other new type) in service than keeping the -A.
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Old May 6 2009, 12:51 AM   #232
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Re: Excelsior Technical Manual - Revived!

ShinRa Actual wrote: View Post
Praetor wrote: View Post
Okay, time to pick this back up.
I prefer that the E-A was a new-build testbed, because I think it just makes more sense with the on-screen evidence. It might have been called Yorktown or Ti-Ho. My only purpose was to establish 1) it was a new build that proved unsuccessful, both explaining the E-A's early retirement and why Starfleet would favor Excelsiors instead of refit Connies, and 2) that it was not the original Yorktown.
My personal opinion (and my adherance to the old salt's opinion on renaming a ship) is that the Ent-A was a new ship, and definately not the Yorktown mentioned in STIV and TOS before that. That being said, she may have been ordered with another prospective name before it being decided to change the name to have another Enterprise in service ASAP. (such as Yorktown, Lexington, and Wasp during WWII)
Exactly where I'm at.

I also believe she was built from parts pares left after the refit program was completed - much as the space shuttle Endeavour was, only incorporating Excelsior-level tech.

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So in the long and short of it, the E-A may indeed have had transwarp when she was first cobbled together. Somehow I imagine that by the time the old crew got their hands on her, the transwarp drive would have either been reconfigured or refit into standard warp drive - maybe even by Scotty himself.
Scott's Guide only covered the TVH Ent-A as I recall...is there any mention of Transwarp on the TFF Graphics anywhere? If not, the Transwarp stuff being removed may have been part of the reason of the -A's...less than stellar condition during TFF.
The Okudagrams for the TVH set mentioned transwarp, and 'Mr. Scott's Guide' seemed to suggest that transwarp was a success because of it. TFF removed the transwarp references from the graphics, presumably reflecting TNG's recalibration of the warp scale. In fact, I imagine that's why it was decided transwarp failed - they wanted to revamp the system anyway.

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Having driven from Florida to NY many times, I've been to see the Showboat several times (and other memorials). North Carolina is one of the best ones to visit, imho.
That's good to know. I really want to visit some more.

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There was a throwaway reference to it in the history section, which was hopefully vague enough for anyone to ignore, that NCC-2001 went from being slated to be Enterprise to Ingram, which was an attempt to make a 'Space Control Ship' out of what was quickly becoming a 'failure.' And that is basically my take on it - that Ingram was built to quite different specifications and formed its own subclass.
Ingram was, a copy of the configuration can be found over at the old SSDB; http://shipschematics.net/startrek/i...ser_ingram.jpg
The implication I got from the old SotSF book was more along the lines that Excelsior was the one that was the 'modified' version, which would explain why the Ingram has a slightly more 1701-Refit style to it. Another fanon book series that tried being a continuation of the SotSF books stated that Sulu was involved in having Excelsior refit from a fast Battleship into a more exploratory-minded ship (I can try and find the links to those if you're interested) which helped the class move beyond the failed Transwarp Battleship project into the more general purpose ship they evidently became between ST6 and TNG.
I'm sort of opposite thinking about it - for me, the Ingram was an attempt to take the basic shape of the Excelsior, imbue it with refit-level (and therefore theoretically 'safe') tech, and produce a Space Control Ship as a way of salvaging the research that had gone into it. For me, Excelsior was meant to be a traditional heavy cruiser and replacement for the Constitution class all along - it was the people trying to make the Space Control Ship that wanted it to be something else, and ultimately sort of where the Ambassador comes from later on.

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Of course, given that we never saw them on screen, it's my belief that they were less successful than the Excelsior, and, being even more limited in role, met with the same problem that dreadnoughts did (i.e., not having anything to do) and hit the chopping block in the early 24th century as a part of the decommissioning/disarmament concessions to the Klingons.
I actually put that forth as a theory for why the -A was withdrawn from service a while back; The arms reduction treaty with the Klingons mandated removing ships from service. While the -A herself was fairly new...the design was old (dating back 50 years if you consider it a direct lineage to 2245). In the end run, Starfleet would probably want another new Excelsior (or other new type) in service than keeping the -A.
That's actually almost exactly what I have going on - the Klingons and Federation agree to disarm, and the Federation agrees to only have x number of heavy cruisers, and decides it is best to decommission the old Connies and sequentially replace them with Excelsiors, which was what they were probably going to do anyway. (They are also forced to decommission all battleships/dreadnoughts - which ultimately gives rise to the Ambassador and Galaxy - battleships/dreadnoughts in power, but with an entirely different purpose.)
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Old May 6 2009, 01:48 AM   #233
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Re: Excelsior Technical Manual - Revived!

Found that link for the SotSF inspired manuals....

http://www.asdb.net/asdb/

There's a few documents that focus on the Excelsior, one is an article on the ship's 50th year in service, and there's a SotSF style entry in their SotSF edition
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Old May 6 2009, 08:22 PM   #234
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Re: Excelsior Technical Manual - Revived!

Praetor wrote: View Post
That's actually almost exactly what I have going on - the Klingons and Federation agree to disarm, and the Federation agrees to only have x number of heavy cruisers, and decides it is best to decommission the old Connies and sequentially replace them with Excelsiors, which was what they were probably going to do anyway.
I like to think that the Khitomer Accords did result in genuine concessions from the Federation. It also neatly explains why we don't see any Connies in the TNG era (the BoBW wreckage aside), even though you can't move for the contemporary Mirandas. Maybe the bits and pieces left over from those Connies resulted in the Constellation class, which would work as a cheaper counterpart to the Excelsiors for the deep space jobs.

(They are also forced to decommission all battleships/dreadnoughts - which ultimately gives rise to the Ambassador and Galaxy - battleships/dreadnoughts in power, but with an entirely different purpose.)
And ironically, the destruction of an Ambassador-class ship by their mutual enemy resulted in the full alliance between the Klingons and the Federation.
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Old May 6 2009, 08:33 PM   #235
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Re: Excelsior Technical Manual - Revived!

Yes, I tend to think that the good spirit of those concessions, while initially forced, did take full hold of both parties by the time of the Enterprise-C's destruction.
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Old May 25 2009, 04:58 AM   #236
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Re: Excelsior Technical Manual - Revived!

Praetor - any word on when we might get the next update? You've done a great job so far, and I'm just waiting to see more
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Old May 25 2009, 05:07 AM   #237
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Re: Excelsior Technical Manual - Revived!

Thanks, CTM. I should have mentioned sooner that real life has gotten in the way a bit. I hope to get back to it relatively soon. It's definitely not forgotten.
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Old May 31 2009, 01:37 PM   #238
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Re: Excelsior Technical Manual - Revived!

A thought for much later why not put an appendix at the end of all the varients and Dominion war kitbashes and include the Ingram
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Old May 31 2009, 04:48 PM   #239
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Re: Excelsior Technical Manual - Revived!

Great work, Preator. This was a great way to spend a Sunday morning. Although I'll admit I skipped over all of the grammatical nitpickings by a certain poster ;-)

Anyway, I can't add too much at this point, but I will grab all my tech manuals I've accumulated over the years and see if I can add something... but I do have one thing I'd like to add...

There was some confusion regarding the size of the "starfleet" itself. I did a little bit of research, and I'd like to cite actual historical precedence for the size of a fleet...

Currently, the US Navy has a fleet of approximately 400 vessels. This includes active ships, ships on reserve, and ships under construction. The known registered ship count breaks down as follows:

11 aircraft carriers, 22 cruisers, 55 destroyers, two littoral combat ships, 31 frigates, 11 amphibious assault ships, two amphibious command ships, 13 amphibious transport docks, 12 dock landing ships, 53 attack submarines, 14 ballistic missile submarines, 4 guided missile submarines, 14 mine countermeasures ships, 8 patrol boats, and 1 technical research ship

Support ships include two hospital ships, four salvage ships, two submarine tenders, four ammunition ships, five combat stores ships, four fast combat support ships, nine dry cargo ships, 15 replenishment oilers, four Fleet Ocean Tugs, four ocean surveillance ships, four container ships, 16 cargo ships (used for pre-positioning of Marine and Army materiel), and seven vehicle cargo ships (also used for prepositioning)
Given those numbers, and the fact this count is for a single nation on a single planet with a couple million crewmen, it is certainly feasible that the Federation, with 150+ member planets, could certainly have a fleet of 800+ Excelsior class vessels... afterall, space is INFINITELY larger than the oceans and seas of Earth.

It's also feasible, that given the scope and scale of the Federation at the time of the Excelsior-class, ships could be rather spread out, as I'm sure Starfleet stations multiple vessels at each port of call, similar to what the US Navy does. And remember too, just because the canon of Trek has focused heavily on Starfleet in San Francisco and construction of ships around Earth, it is certainly conceivable that Starfleet has auxiliary development and construction facilities spread throughout the territory controlled by the Federation.

Furthermore, it would be believable that given the wealth of resources of 150 member planets, and Starfleet could be constructing HUNDREDS of vessels at a single time, given the fact that the US Navy, with their limited resources, has between 10 and 15 vessels under construction at any point in time (obviously great accelerated during wartime).

For reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ed_States_Navy

Once again, great work, and I hope I can help contribute to this fantastic document!

But now it's time to go play golf :-)

EDIT: From the TNG Technical Manual published in 1991:

"The third Enterprise, NCC-1701-B, was an Excelsior-class ship built at Starfleet's Antares Ship Yards. Although the decision to model this ship on the failed experimental Excelsior was at the time controversial, the economics of using the existing (and otherwise successful) engineering of the basic spaceframe were compelling. The wisdom of this decision has been corne out by the large number of Excelsior-class starships that still serve Starfleet in a variety of capacities. (Indeed, the Excelsior herself ultimately proved to be a distinguishhed part of the Starfleet.) The third Enterprise was a key figure in the exploration of space beyond the Gourami Sector. The ship and her crew were responsible for mapping over 142 star systems, including first contact with seventeen civilizations."

Last edited by thedude; May 31 2009 at 09:42 PM.
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Old June 1 2009, 12:27 AM   #240
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Re: Excelsior Technical Manual - Revived!

regemet wrote: View Post
A thought for much later why not put an appendix at the end of all the varients and Dominion war kitbashes and include the Ingram
Thank you for suggesting that. Indeed, I have rough drafts of those already.

thedude wrote: View Post
Great work, Preator. This was a great way to spend a Sunday morning. Although I'll admit I skipped over all of the grammatical nitpickings by a certain poster ;-)

Anyway, I can't add too much at this point, but I will grab all my tech manuals I've accumulated over the years and see if I can add something... but I do have one thing I'd like to add...

There was some confusion regarding the size of the "starfleet" itself. I did a little bit of research, and I'd like to cite actual historical precedence for the size of a fleet...

Currently, the US Navy has a fleet of approximately 400 vessels. This includes active ships, ships on reserve, and ships under construction. The known registered ship count breaks down as follows:

11 aircraft carriers, 22 cruisers, 55 destroyers, two littoral combat ships, 31 frigates, 11 amphibious assault ships, two amphibious command ships, 13 amphibious transport docks, 12 dock landing ships, 53 attack submarines, 14 ballistic missile submarines, 4 guided missile submarines, 14 mine countermeasures ships, 8 patrol boats, and 1 technical research ship

Support ships include two hospital ships, four salvage ships, two submarine tenders, four ammunition ships, five combat stores ships, four fast combat support ships, nine dry cargo ships, 15 replenishment oilers, four Fleet Ocean Tugs, four ocean surveillance ships, four container ships, 16 cargo ships (used for pre-positioning of Marine and Army materiel), and seven vehicle cargo ships (also used for prepositioning)
Given those numbers, and the fact this count is for a single nation on a single planet with a couple million crewmen, it is certainly feasible that the Federation, with 150+ member planets, could certainly have a fleet of 800+ Excelsior class vessels... afterall, space is INFINITELY larger than the oceans and seas of Earth.

It's also feasible, that given the scope and scale of the Federation at the time of the Excelsior-class, ships could be rather spread out, as I'm sure Starfleet stations multiple vessels at each port of call, similar to what the US Navy does. And remember too, just because the canon of Trek has focused heavily on Starfleet in San Francisco and construction of ships around Earth, it is certainly conceivable that Starfleet has auxiliary development and construction facilities spread throughout the territory controlled by the Federation.

Furthermore, it would be believable that given the wealth of resources of 150 member planets, and Starfleet could be constructing HUNDREDS of vessels at a single time, given the fact that the US Navy, with their limited resources, has between 10 and 15 vessels under construction at any point in time (obviously great accelerated during wartime).

For reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ed_States_Navy

Once again, great work, and I hope I can help contribute to this fantastic document!

But now it's time to go play golf :-)

EDIT: From the TNG Technical Manual published in 1991:

"The third Enterprise, NCC-1701-B, was an Excelsior-class ship built at Starfleet's Antares Ship Yards. Although the decision to model this ship on the failed experimental Excelsior was at the time controversial, the economics of using the existing (and otherwise successful) engineering of the basic spaceframe were compelling. The wisdom of this decision has been corne out by the large number of Excelsior-class starships that still serve Starfleet in a variety of capacities. (Indeed, the Excelsior herself ultimately proved to be a distinguishhed part of the Starfleet.) The third Enterprise was a key figure in the exploration of space beyond the Gourami Sector. The ship and her crew were responsible for mapping over 142 star systems, including first contact with seventeen civilizations."
Thanks for the compliments and those facts, thedude.

I'm actually hoping to get back to work on this in a couple of weeks - I have to send my HP off for repairs, so maybe when that comes back.
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