RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,414
Posts: 5,506,336
Members: 25,129
Currently online: 483
Newest member: krishna

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Paramount Star Trek 3 Expectations
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Star Trek #39 Sneak Peek
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Star Trek 3 Potential Director Shortlist
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Official Starships Collection Update
By: T'Bonz on Dec 15

Retro Review: Prodigal Daughter
By: Michelle on Dec 13

Sindicate Lager To Debut In The US Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 2 2009, 09:13 AM   #1
gastrof
Rear Admiral
 
gastrof's Avatar
 
Location: New Vulcan
Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice...

One of the complaints I had about the restored version (the combined black&white/color version and then the full color version) was that they combined the original voice of the Keeper with the voice they dubbed in for him in "The Menagerie".

The switching from one voice to another was...strange at best. (If they'd used one for telepathy and the other for his audible voice it might have made SOME kind of sense, but they used both for his audible voice.)

Anyway, it just dawned on me as the episode was ending that during the whole thing, all I'd heard was the voice dubbed in for "The Menagerie".

Didn't catch ONE example of the original voice.

WERE there any such examples? Did I just miss it?

Now, if they'd switched back to the original voice for the whole thing, THAT I could have understood. They'd have had recordings of the lines spoken in that voice for the entire episode...but they shouldn't have had recordings of the dubbed voice for any scenes that didn't get used during "The Menagerie".

And yet, again, NO case (apparently) of the original voice being used.

HOW did they do that? Did TOSR's aired version simply not include any scenes that weren't in "The Menagerie"?

Any of you who have the "Remastered" DVDs... What do YOU hear when you watch the episode? You'd have heard the entire thing, uncut, so did they use only the dubbed voice (the one used in "The Menagerie") in the version on the Remastered DVDs?

I can see why'd they'd have made that choice, since it fits in with the later "Menagerie" flashbacks, but HOW did they get recordings of the Keeper's voice from lines that were never recorded for the flashbacks?

Get what I mean?

Think they re-dubbed any lines that hadn't been redubbed back in the 60s, maybe using a sound-alike voice artist, or even a computerized voice imitation?
__________________
Trek:
Onscreen is canon, books are interesting. Movies change canon, scissors wrap paper...or...something.
gastrof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2 2009, 07:05 PM   #2
gastrof
Rear Admiral
 
gastrof's Avatar
 
Location: New Vulcan
Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

Aw, come on guys. I really want some input here. It really looks like in remastering they somehow recreated the "Menagerie" version of the Keeper's voice, and if so I'm very impressed. I'm just not sure if anything we saw on the air was NOT included in "The Menagerie".

Those of you with the remastered discs that've already been released, does the Keeper have the Menagerie voice thru the whole thing? (Including in scenes that had to be edited out for time in this week's aired version?)
__________________
Trek:
Onscreen is canon, books are interesting. Movies change canon, scissors wrap paper...or...something.
gastrof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2 2009, 08:08 PM   #3
Merry Stripmas
Fleet Captain
 
Merry Stripmas's Avatar
 
Location: Alabama
View Merry Stripmas's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to Merry Stripmas Send a message via AIM to Merry Stripmas Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Merry Stripmas Send a message via Yahoo to Merry Stripmas
Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

gastrof wrote: View Post
Aw, come on guys. I really want some input here. It really looks like in remastering they somehow recreated the "Menagerie" version of the Keeper's voice, and if so I'm very impressed. I'm just not sure if anything we saw on the air was NOT included in "The Menagerie".

Those of you with the remastered discs that've already been released, does the Keeper have the Menagerie voice thru the whole thing? (Including in scenes that had to be edited out for time in this week's aired version?)
The uncut remastered version does have the "Menagerie" voice throughout the entire episode.
__________________
J. Lester
Merry Stripmas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2 2009, 08:09 PM   #4
davejames
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Sac, Ca
Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

Haven't seen it yet, but considering all the amazing things they can do with audio now, I wouldn't be surprised if they could alter those bits to sound like the higher-pitched female voice.
davejames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2 2009, 08:10 PM   #5
Praetor
Vice Admiral
 
Praetor's Avatar
 
Location: The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

IIRC, it's also actually the same voice - they just sped it up to give it a higher pitch for 'The Menagerie' because the voice was provided by the actor playing Commodore Mendez and it was felt it would be recognizable and/or confusing.
__________________
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." - Q
Praetor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2 2009, 08:20 PM   #6
number6
Vice Admiral
 
Location: number6 has left the village through some inexpicable hole in the ground to head the corporation.
Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

Praetor wrote: View Post
IIRC, it's also actually the same voice - they just sped it up to give it a higher pitch for 'The Menagerie' because the voice was provided by the actor playing Commodore Mendez and it was felt it would be recognizable and/or confusing.
That's right. They ptiched the voice to avoid confusion.
number6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2 2009, 08:46 PM   #7
Praetor
Vice Admiral
 
Praetor's Avatar
 
Location: The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

Malachi Throne does have a very distinctive voice, IMO.
__________________
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." - Q
Praetor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2 2009, 09:10 PM   #8
SantaEddie74
Fleet Admiral
 
SantaEddie74's Avatar
 
Location: The North Pole of the Warped Sector of the Demented Quadrant
View SantaEddie74's Twitter Profile
Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

I've always preferred the original "Cage" version of the Keeper's voice. Just my own personal tastes.
__________________
Remember what cooleddie74 says, kids:

"Don't forget to have a Patrick Swayze Christmas!"
SantaEddie74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2 2009, 09:22 PM   #9
Praetor
Vice Admiral
 
Praetor's Avatar
 
Location: The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

It does better complete the notion of having female actors play the Talosians dubbed with male voices to feel more 'alien.'
__________________
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." - Q
Praetor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2 2009, 09:27 PM   #10
davejames
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Sac, Ca
Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

Plus it's just a lot less annoying.
davejames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2 2009, 09:59 PM   #11
gastrof
Rear Admiral
 
gastrof's Avatar
 
Location: New Vulcan
Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

So....

The already-released remastered DVDs have the same voice for the Keeper thru the whole episode, the "not deep" one?
__________________
Trek:
Onscreen is canon, books are interesting. Movies change canon, scissors wrap paper...or...something.
gastrof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2 2009, 10:38 PM   #12
Ziz
Commodore
 
Ziz's Avatar
 
Location: NY
Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

I wish people would look at things from a production perspective and get their history straight.

The original half color/half black and white version (which is in the TOS R S3 set) has that same audio change for the keeper line at the end. That was one of the shots they cut out for Menagerie. When they found the remaining color footage for the subsequent restoration, that was apparently all they found. The audio element was most likely lost or damaged beyond repair. Remember, we're talking about physical film and audio tape media here, not digital data.
__________________
Modular Models - Build your fleet YOUR way.
Ziz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2 2009, 10:47 PM   #13
Praetor
Vice Admiral
 
Praetor's Avatar
 
Location: The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

My thought is that when they found the other color footage, they sped up the other original voice audio to match the sped-up voice they had from 'The Menagerie.'
__________________
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." - Q
Praetor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3 2009, 01:57 AM   #14
GSchnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
 
GSchnitzer's Avatar
 
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland, USA, Terra
Send a message via AIM to GSchnitzer Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to GSchnitzer Send a message via Yahoo to GSchnitzer
Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

If I have my facts correct, the Frankenstein version of "The Cage" was shown on television for the first time and released on VHS back in 1986. This was the version that took the nice, clean "Cage" footage that was used in "The Menagerie" and incorporated it with crappy black and white with lousy sound footage pulled from Roddenberry's 16 mm working print. Shortly after that, Bob Furmanek, in 1987, found the pieces that had been cut out from "The Cage" in making "The Menagerie." Unfortunately, all he found was negatives without any sound. So, it was possible to make a full color version of all of "The Cage"--but those few non-"Menagerie" scenes, although now in color, would still have the old crappy sound. But the Keeper's voice in those two "Cage"-only scenes (Malachi Throne) was digitally monkeyed with (amazing what we can do nowadays) to make it sound higher pitched--like Vic Perrin's overdubs in the rest of the Menagerie. But when you listen to the few "Cage-only" scenes, there's clearly poor quality sound with a great deal of hiss.

Both versions (the Frankenstein version with black-and-white footage with Malachi Throne's deep voice and the all color version using the "recently" found color footage with the same old black and white *sound* but tricked up to sound like Malachi Throne) are available on the original DVDs (two episodes per disc) and the "old" Third Season boxed set and the "new" Third Season Remastered boxed set.

And, of course, you can still hear Malachi Throne's voice as the Keeper in one quick scene in the "Scenes from Next Week" for "The Menagerie, Part 2."
__________________
Greg Schnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
Star Trek Phase II
http://www.startrekphase2.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3348883/
GSchnitzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3 2009, 11:27 AM   #15
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
If I have my facts correct, the Frankenstein version of "The Cage" was shown on television for the first time
No, the b/w & color compile was a direct-to-video release. Then the lost color negatives were found. Then the all-color restored version was aired on TV, as part of "From One Saga To the Next", to kick off Season 2 of TNG, and then was released on VHS.
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:06 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.