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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > TV & Media > Lost

Lost We're not the only forum on this board, and we all know it!

View Poll Results: Grade the episode...
Excellent 36 54.55%
Above Average 21 31.82%
Average 8 12.12%
Below Average 1 1.52%
Poor 0 0%
Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old May 1 2009, 05:19 AM   #76
Aragorn
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Re: Lost 5x14: "The Variable"

So obviously Team Jack is going to fail in setting off the hydrogen bomb... because that's what Desmond did at the end of season two, right?

On a side note, what happened to Sayid? And when did Jack become a gun expert?
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Old May 1 2009, 05:23 AM   #77
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Re: Lost 5x14: "The Variable"

Mr Light wrote: View Post
I thought he was a great actor, ...
Jeremy Davies is definitely a great actor in my book. I just love watching him act.

Aragorn wrote: View Post
On a side note, what happened to Sayid?
Well, personally I'm hoping for a surprise return in a precarious situation.

Aragorn wrote: View Post
And when did Jack become a gun expert?
Yeah, I wondered that myself. Him holding a gun somehow looks off to me.
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Old May 1 2009, 06:49 AM   #78
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Re: Lost 5x14: "The Variable"

Mr Light wrote: View Post
I thought he was a great actor
True that. I've always liked the "energy" (for lack of a better term) that he brought to the show, and he was on full display last night.

I can see why some people may not dig it though. He does make odd choices.
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Old May 1 2009, 07:23 AM   #79
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Re: Lost 5x14: "The Variable"

I don't know, Jack's had quite a bit of experience with guns over the last few seasons. And maybe after he got off the island he realized it was a good idea to learn how to better defend himself. He might have been taking lessons. He was the one who realized right off the bat that they would have to lie about what happened on the island and that if they didn't then people might have come after them. No matter what people might think of Jack, he's always been pretty damn smart. And it would be smart of him to learn how to use guns after what he had been through.
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Old May 1 2009, 07:25 AM   #80
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Re: Lost 5x14: "The Variable"

Excellent.

I'm going to miss Faraday if that is indeed the last we're going to see of him.
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Old May 1 2009, 02:25 PM   #81
Mr Light
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Re: Lost 5x14: "The Variable"

Actually I thought the gun battle in this episode was hilarious because clearly nobody involved knew how to shoot because they shot a hundred bullets at each other in close range and only 1-2 people got hit! I thought it was a nice touch of realism, as scientists and civilians wouldn't be able to hit the broad side of a barn.
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Old May 1 2009, 02:31 PM   #82
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Re: Lost 5x14: "The Variable"

Aragorn wrote: View Post
And when did Jack become a gun expert?
I know! I was thinking ...'shouldn't Kate be covering Jack?'
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Old May 1 2009, 02:46 PM   #83
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Re: Lost 5x14: "The Variable"

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Mr Awe wrote: View Post
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post

You're going to stop watching because of one character (a guest star even)?



To assume they can alter the past is to assume they weren't in the past originally.
That's not true at all. They are back in time but they have knowledge of the future. There currently is one timeline but they can force another. That's what we're talking about here, creating a new timeline. Or maybe, they enter a parrallel universe. The original universe stays intact but they effectively create a new one?

Mr Awe
You're missing my point. How can they force another if they were always there back in time in the first? They always had knowledge of the future and always took actions with that in mind. It's not that they can cause different results to take place. They already used their free will to create the future we know. From our perspective, these events took place in the 70s, even if that isn't the case from their perspective.
Actually, you're missing my point. It's a feedback loop, where the characters are the one thing (the variable) that can bring back the information from the previous loop to retry it from the beginning. So, the losties brought back the outcome of the last loop with them to 1977. They can try to make a change. From their point of view, they don't remember any previous loops but they do know how this loop worked out and can plan accordingly.

This transfer of information, of people being the variables that can change things, is what Daniel was getting at. They still have free will. In fact, I'd say they even have freer will than usual, if that's possible. They know how things will work out unless they make specific changes. You don't usually have this information. So, this additional information makes them even more powerful change agents, not less.

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Old May 1 2009, 03:43 PM   #84
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Re: Lost 5x14: "The Variable"

Mr Light wrote: View Post
Actually I thought the gun battle in this episode was hilarious because clearly nobody involved knew how to shoot because they shot a hundred bullets at each other in close range and only 1-2 people got hit! I thought it was a nice touch of realism, as scientists and civilians wouldn't be able to hit the broad side of a barn.
I was snickering because I could only picture a Police Squad! type gunfight where they are on opposite sides of the same barrel.
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Old May 1 2009, 07:03 PM   #85
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Lost 5x14: "The Variable"

Mr Awe wrote: View Post
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Mr Awe wrote: View Post

That's not true at all. They are back in time but they have knowledge of the future. There currently is one timeline but they can force another. That's what we're talking about here, creating a new timeline. Or maybe, they enter a parrallel universe. The original universe stays intact but they effectively create a new one?

Mr Awe
You're missing my point. How can they force another if they were always there back in time in the first? They always had knowledge of the future and always took actions with that in mind. It's not that they can cause different results to take place. They already used their free will to create the future we know. From our perspective, these events took place in the 70s, even if that isn't the case from their perspective.
Actually, you're missing my point. It's a feedback loop, where the characters are the one thing (the variable) that can bring back the information from the previous loop to retry it from the beginning. So, the losties brought back the outcome of the last loop with them to 1977. They can try to make a change. From their point of view, they don't remember any previous loops but they do know how this loop worked out and can plan accordingly.

This transfer of information, of people being the variables that can change things, is what Daniel was getting at. They still have free will. In fact, I'd say they even have freer will than usual, if that's possible. They know how things will work out unless they make specific changes. You don't usually have this information. So, this additional information makes them even more powerful change agents, not less.

Mr Awe
Oh, I understand that. I just think Ferraday is wrong in this case. I don't think it's a feedback loop. His original explanation that all these events already happened makes sense to me (and by all, I'm including them being there).
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Old May 1 2009, 07:29 PM   #86
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Re: Lost 5x14: "The Variable"

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Oh, I understand that. I just think Ferraday is wrong in this case. I don't think it's a feedback loop. His original explanation that all these events already happened makes sense to me (and by all, I'm including them being there).
Well, Farraday apparently changed his mind after much research on the mainland and I'll take his word on it!

Plus, I like to go with the more empowering notion. That information empowers you rather than imprisons you.

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Old May 1 2009, 07:53 PM   #87
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Re: Lost 5x14: "The Variable"

The writers have said repeatedly in interviews that their time travel can't change the past, though, that they think that kind of time travel is garbage and ruins your show of its drama and consequences. So for them to go back on that, I would be extremely surprised. This is why I think it's a misdirect. They'll try to change the past and end up causing the established timeline.
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Old May 1 2009, 08:13 PM   #88
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Lost 5x14: "The Variable"

Mr Awe wrote: View Post
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Oh, I understand that. I just think Ferraday is wrong in this case. I don't think it's a feedback loop. His original explanation that all these events already happened makes sense to me (and by all, I'm including them being there).
Well, Farraday apparently changed his mind after much research on the mainland and I'll take his word on it!

Plus, I like to go with the more empowering notion. That information empowers you rather than imprisons you.

Mr Awe
The information doesn't imprison you unless you know what your actions were in the past. If you don't, you do whatever you like. It just happens to be that, in the future, those actions that you did were always done.
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Old May 1 2009, 08:49 PM   #89
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Re: Lost 5x14: "The Variable"

I don't think they will change the past, just our perceptions on what we believe is the past.

I thought Jeremy Davies was a great actor, I think he brought to Faraday a quiet desperation that made him appealing to me.
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Old May 1 2009, 09:26 PM   #90
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Lost 5x14: "The Variable"

Mr Light wrote: View Post
I thought he was a great actor, what part did you think he was bad in? Well maybe he was a little off during the "memory problem" flashbacks...
Every time he tried to cry or express emotion made me cringe. I guess till now he's been so low-key that I haven't noticed that his acting is unconvincing.

The writers have said repeatedly in interviews that their time travel can't change the past, though, that they think that kind of time travel is garbage and ruins your show of its drama and consequences.
It's not easy to write, because of the "then why does the audience care what happens?" problem - which is why we don't see it attempted very often in TV or movies, and it's pretty rare in novels, too, compared with the more popular forms of time travel logic that don't render the characters powerless.

The advantage is that it's straightforward and easy to grasp, and doesn't lead to annoying logic problems that writers can be tempted to paper over with cheats (eg, ENT's Temporal Cold War).

I think Lost has a shot at pulling it off simply because the characters are compelling enough that they are worth watching even if we suspect they are on a fool's errand, trying to change an unchangeable past.
They'll try to change the past and end up causing the established timeline.
Which means they are supporting the notion that time travel can't change the past - I thought you said you disliked that?
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