Kirk's early years.

Omega_Glory · April 19 2009, 12:10 AM

Kirk's early starfleet career has been mentioned a few times. Any ideas on whether or not the new film will honor:

1) Kirk's first assignment out of the Academy was the USS Farragut. He was a Lieutenant upon leaving the Academy or during at least part of that tour.

2) Kirk served as an Ensign aboard the USS Republic where he exposed an error by his friend Ben Finney. This might have been while he was still at the academy (midshipman's cruise?) if he was a Lieutenant upon graduation. Finney named his daughter after Kirk (Jamie) so they were pretty good friends.

3) Kirk's nemesis at the Academy was an upperclassmen named Finnegan.

4) Kirk was an instructor at the Academy and Gary Mitchell was one of his students.

5) Kirk was the only student to beat the "no-win" scenario at the Academy.

Hopefully, in the new film, the Enterprise won't be Kirks offical first assignment.

Kelso · April 19 2009, 12:16 AM

I think (5) is pretty safe.

Oh, and doesn't Kirk's bio on the OS say that he is an assistant instructor in personal combat... or something along those lines?

It looks like the new Kirk doesn't go to the academy until his mid-twenties. Obviously, he'll have different experiences there.

Mr. Laser Beam · April 19 2009, 12:54 AM

Actually, I think only #1 is going to be flat-out contradicted by the film (since apparently Kirk goes straight to the Enterprise upon graduation, although I believe the Farragut will be mentioned offscreen). Everything else could, technically, still occur.

Aragorn · April 19 2009, 01:32 AM

In the movie, Kirk steps onto the Farragut, then realizes he left his iPod. When he goes back for it, the ship leaves, so he has to get on the Enterprise instead. Problem solved.

ClayHefner · April 19 2009, 01:32 AM

it's a different timeline. It could be totally different than what's said in TOS and still not contradict anything.
In many cases, too many similarities between events in the two timelines would make it less credible. Especially when it comes to stuff like his friendship with Gary Mitchell or his problems with Finnegan.

Stag · April 19 2009, 01:59 AM

Wonder if cupcake in the previews is supposed to be Finnegan?

The Wormhole · April 19 2009, 04:02 AM

Sadly, it seems as thought the movie is neglecting characters of depth and complexity such as Gary Mitchell, Ben Finney, and Finnegan.

Admiral Buzzkill · April 19 2009, 04:11 AM

The Wormhole wrote:

Sadly, it seems as thought the movie is neglecting characters of depth and complexity such as Gary Mitchell, Ben Finney, and Finnegan.

You're a master satirist, or at least you can pass as one around here.

The Keeper · April 19 2009, 04:17 AM

It took me a moment to get it, but yeah, g00d 0ne.

AstroMike · April 19 2009, 05:50 AM

For some reason I think we will see Gary Mitchell in the film.

Mr. Laser Beam · April 19 2009, 06:13 AM

AstroMike wrote:

For some reason I think we will see Gary Mitchell in the film.

I think Gary is a more likely candidate to be Cupcake, since AFAIK Cupcake isn't Irish (at least his accent isn't) so he can't be Finnegan.

Cyke101 · April 19 2009, 07:23 AM

Omega_Glory wrote:

Kirk's early starfleet career has been mentioned a few times. Any ideas on whether or not the new film will honor:

1) Kirk's first assignment out of the Academy was the USS Farragut. He was a Lieutenant upon leaving the Academy or during at least part of that tour.

2) Kirk served as an Ensign aboard the USS Republic where he exposed an error by his friend Ben Finney. This might have been while he was still at the academy (midshipman's cruise?) if he was a Lieutenant upon graduation. Finney named his daughter after Kirk (Jamie) so they were pretty good friends.

3) Kirk's nemesis at the Academy was an upperclassmen named Finnegan.

4) Kirk was an instructor at the Academy and Gary Mitchell was one of his students.

5) Kirk was the only student to beat the "no-win" scenario at the Academy.

Hopefully, in the new film, the Enterprise won't be Kirks offical first assignment.

I'm predicting that a few of these things won't happen by virtue of Nero's attack on the Kelvin. I would think that in the normal timeline, Kirk joins Starfleet like any other person because his parents supported him. In the Abrams timeline, since his good and honorable parents died in Nero's attack, there would be no one suitable to guide him to Starfleet until Pike comes along.

I would also assume that the movie reinforces the idea that no matter what timeline you're dealing with (including the Mirror Universe), Kirk will always end up as a legendary captain.

Praetor · April 19 2009, 07:25 AM

I'm guessing the non-canon bit from the writer's guide about Kirk captaining a destroyer as a Commander before the Enterprise is out...

Valar · April 19 2009, 11:44 AM

I wish someone other than me had read Diane Carey's "Best Destiny" which is what Orci and Kurtzman referenced as one of the inspirations of the new movie's story.

In the novel, Kirk is a 16 yr old hellion, ticked off at the world because he had to live through the Tarsus 4 massacre and his dad is never around- always off on Starfleet missions. His dad forces him to come with him on a cruise with Capt April on the Enterprise, a milk run where Jimmy won't get hurt but might learn to expand his perspective about the world. The first half of the book Kirk spends much of the time rebellious and sullen, but when pirates attack their shuttlecraft, he starts to slowly begin to realize his problems are incosequential. The essential lesson that a hero learns when they realize their place in the grand scheme of things - that the world doesn't owe you, you owe the world- gets through to him and he starts to become the Kirk we all know. I also think the last few pages of the book offer a little more insight into the character - in one passage Capt April explains why he agreed to diverting his mission so Jimmy could get this milk run and hopefully become a responsible person. April says that Jimmy's rebellious/troublemaking spirit is central to what is required for Starfleet because "you can't fight a dirty soul with a clean one"

I gather that when the timeline is changed, George Kirk will never be able to teach his kid this lesson, and that Kirk will remain a hellion for a lot longer, getting into fights, bedding women, breaking rules etc. I also guess that Pike will be the father figure here, offering direction and faith in him until he gets to be the Kirk we know. It's interesting, to echo that dirty soul vs clean soul comment in the book by Capt April, that the Capt Pike dossier on the official site states that he was tired of Starfleet picking by the book commanders, he wants someone with original thinking to lead Starfleet.

"Best Destiny" is out of print BTW.

Omega_Glory · April 21 2009, 06:13 PM

And another thing. Kirk is 20 years old when the Enterprise encounters the Talosians in The Cage and Menagarie I & II (Deadly Years-age 34 & Menagarie-13yrs before TOS). Is he less than 20 during this movie?

If they're changing the timeline, I hope they change it back......otherwise we will have to throw away our tapes & DVDs of Star Trek since it never happened.

April 19 2009, 12:16 AM	#2
Kelso Vice Admiral Location: On the destruct button until the last minute!	Re: Kirk's early years. I think (5) is pretty safe. Oh, and doesn't Kirk's bio on the OS say that he is an assistant instructor in personal combat... or something along those lines? It looks like the new Kirk doesn't go to the academy until his mid-twenties. Obviously, he'll have different experiences there. __________________ "Murder on Tuesday"! The all-new comic strip from Kail Tescar's startrekanimated.com My Puppet Building Blog!

April 19 2009, 12:54 AM	#3
Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Location: The visitor's bullpen	Re: Kirk's early years. Actually, I think only #1 is going to be flat-out contradicted by the film (since apparently Kirk goes straight to the Enterprise upon graduation, although I believe the Farragut will be mentioned offscreen). Everything else could, technically, still occur. __________________ It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

April 19 2009, 01:32 AM	#4
Aragorn Admiral	Re: Kirk's early years. In the movie, Kirk steps onto the Farragut, then realizes he left his iPod. When he goes back for it, the ship leaves, so he has to get on the Enterprise instead. Problem solved.

April 19 2009, 01:32 AM	#5
ClayHefner Commander	Re: Kirk's early years. it's a different timeline. It could be totally different than what's said in TOS and still not contradict anything. In many cases, too many similarities between events in the two timelines would make it less credible. Especially when it comes to stuff like his friendship with Gary Mitchell or his problems with Finnegan.

April 19 2009, 01:59 AM	#6
Stag Rear Admiral Location: Central Florida	Re: Kirk's early years. Wonder if cupcake in the previews is supposed to be Finnegan? __________________ "Guess I picked the wrong week to quit smokin!"

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April 19 2009, 12:10 AM	#1
Omega_Glory Commodore Location: Colorado, USA	Kirk's early years. Kirk's early starfleet career has been mentioned a few times. Any ideas on whether or not the new film will honor: 1) Kirk's first assignment out of the Academy was the USS Farragut. He was a Lieutenant upon leaving the Academy or during at least part of that tour. 2) Kirk served as an Ensign aboard the USS Republic where he exposed an error by his friend Ben Finney. This might have been while he was still at the academy (midshipman's cruise?) if he was a Lieutenant upon graduation. Finney named his daughter after Kirk (Jamie) so they were pretty good friends. 3) Kirk's nemesis at the Academy was an upperclassmen named Finnegan. 4) Kirk was an instructor at the Academy and Gary Mitchell was one of his students. 5) Kirk was the only student to beat the "no-win" scenario at the Academy. Hopefully, in the new film, the Enterprise won't be Kirks offical first assignment.

April 19 2009, 04:02 AM	#7
The Wormhole Admiral	Re: Kirk's early years. Sadly, it seems as thought the movie is neglecting characters of depth and complexity such as Gary Mitchell, Ben Finney, and Finnegan. __________________ "Internet message boards aren't as funny today as they were ten years ago. I've stopped reading new posts." -The Simpsons 20th anniversary special.

April 19 2009, 04:17 AM	#9
The Keeper Commodore Location: Where reality ends and illusion begins	Re: Kirk's early years. It took me a moment to get it, but yeah, g00d 0ne.

April 19 2009, 05:50 AM	#10
AstroMike Captain	Re: Kirk's early years. For some reason I think we will see Gary Mitchell in the film.

April 19 2009, 07:25 AM	#13
Praetor Vice Admiral Location: Totally different head. Totally.	Re: Kirk's early years. I'm guessing the non-canon bit from the writer's guide about Kirk captaining a destroyer as a Commander before the Enterprise is out... __________________ "Dude, put the blasty thing down, and have a toke on this baby." - 420 Kirk.

April 19 2009, 11:44 AM	#14
Valar Rear Admiral Location: Kalifornia	Re: Kirk's early years. I wish someone other than me had read Diane Carey's "Best Destiny" which is what Orci and Kurtzman referenced as one of the inspirations of the new movie's story. In the novel, Kirk is a 16 yr old hellion, ticked off at the world because he had to live through the Tarsus 4 massacre and his dad is never around- always off on Starfleet missions. His dad forces him to come with him on a cruise with Capt April on the Enterprise, a milk run where Jimmy won't get hurt but might learn to expand his perspective about the world. The first half of the book Kirk spends much of the time rebellious and sullen, but when pirates attack their shuttlecraft, he starts to slowly begin to realize his problems are incosequential. The essential lesson that a hero learns when they realize their place in the grand scheme of things - that the world doesn't owe you, you owe the world- gets through to him and he starts to become the Kirk we all know. I also think the last few pages of the book offer a little more insight into the character - in one passage Capt April explains why he agreed to diverting his mission so Jimmy could get this milk run and hopefully become a responsible person. April says that Jimmy's rebellious/troublemaking spirit is central to what is required for Starfleet because "you can't fight a dirty soul with a clean one" I gather that when the timeline is changed, George Kirk will never be able to teach his kid this lesson, and that Kirk will remain a hellion for a lot longer, getting into fights, bedding women, breaking rules etc. I also guess that Pike will be the father figure here, offering direction and faith in him until he gets to be the Kirk we know. It's interesting, to echo that dirty soul vs clean soul comment in the book by Capt April, that the Capt Pike dossier on the official site states that he was tired of Starfleet picking by the book commanders, he wants someone with original thinking to lead Starfleet. "Best Destiny" is out of print BTW. __________________ Last edited by Valar; April 19 2009 at 12:05 PM.

April 21 2009, 06:13 PM	#15
Omega_Glory Commodore Location: Colorado, USA	Re: Kirk's early years. And another thing. Kirk is 20 years old when the Enterprise encounters the Talosians in The Cage and Menagarie I & II (Deadly Years-age 34 & Menagarie-13yrs before TOS). Is he less than 20 during this movie? If they're changing the timeline, I hope they change it back......otherwise we will have to throw away our tapes & DVDs of Star Trek since it never happened.