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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Battlestar Galactica & Caprica

Battlestar Galactica & Caprica This forum was created by man. It rebelled. It evolved. And it has a plan.

View Poll Results: Grade the pilot...
Excellent 74 35.58%
Above Average 89 42.79%
Average 27 12.98%
Below Average 9 4.33%
Poor 9 4.33%
Voters: 208. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old April 17 2009, 01:48 AM   #61
sidious618
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Re: Caprica - Grading & Discussion

Gregsmack wrote: View Post
^ Happen to have any links? I'm interested in what she has to say.
I can't recall off hand but I know she mentioned that she wanted it to be similar in tone to The Sopranos.
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Old April 17 2009, 05:38 AM   #62
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Re: Caprica - Grading & Discussion

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Old April 17 2009, 05:50 AM   #63
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Re: Caprica - Grading & Discussion

CommodoreNero wrote: View Post
I liked the hell out of this premiere movie. This is not BSG, but what it is has a metric ****ton of potential.

I think someone else said it before, but the ultimate root cause of the Fall, billions of lives lost, to have been a father, understandably and selfishly trying to save whatever he could of his daughter...

That's some heavy right there.

I can't wait to see more.
Or the ultimate root cause of the fall was a jealous god that desperately wanted to be worshiped.

Consider the possibility that The One, is the same fellow who doesn't like to be called God in BSG, as well as the possibility that Ben's actions weren't premature at all, but were directly inspired by God, for the purpose of killing Zoe, in order to set in motion the destruction of the Colonies.
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Old April 17 2009, 07:11 AM   #64
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Re: Caprica - Grading & Discussion

What we saw of "God" in BSG seemed to be the "giving free will to his creations" type. That's how I saw it anyway. Mileage varies. Whatever your point of view, Zoe's death is the catalyst for the death of humanity. No doubt about that. Sort of like the shooting of the archduke set in motion World War I, which led to World War II, which led to the creation of the state of Israel which some types obsessed with the end of days says is a sign of the end times....

Did God push Ben into doing what he did, or did Sister Clarice push him into it? The writers sure left a lot of suspicion on her actions to be later explored. The "angels" in present day New York at the end of BSG said that if humanity repeated the cycle of destruction and rebirth often enough that it might change--the more times it happened, the more the probability that a different outcome might occur. For example, if Ben Stark makes a different choice and Zoe Graystone lives to be a 90 year old woman rather than dying a 16 year old, maybe she makes up with her parents eventually, comes home and finds a different path for Zoe-A. Zoe-A becomes an example for positive change like Zoe intended and she's never downloaded into a corporeal body, or perhaps Zoe-A is left in the holoband world to her own devices and choices--thus she never influences the centurions. No rebellion. Or maybe Zoe dies in a car accident at 40 (or at 19) and nobody ever finds out about Zoe-A, thus the centurions her father creates never develop a sense of free will, never become monotheistic and never rebel whether she dies at 90, 40, or 19 and there's no first cylon war. The Final Five arrive to a peaceful set of worlds and have no need to create humanoid cylons....thus no Cavil. Didn't an early series "bible" for Caprica describe Sister Clarice as having apocalyptic visions? Maybe she sees the chain of events resulting from Zoe's death and she's trying to set the colonies on the certain path to destruction she foresees because she considers them all evil polytheists?

Clarice's choice of words the last time Lacy sees her is significant. Lacy asks if Ben was one of the terrorists and Clarice says that in fighting the real evil that Ben did something premature and unauthorized (before her blather about the word terrorist being a label)? Unauthorized? That implies a chain of command. Oh, Sister Clarice is definitely involved with unsavory elements. Then there's what she says after Lacy asks, "And Zoe?" You have no idea how important Zoe was to us....is....

Who exactly is "us"? Is? IMO, that's indicative of Clarice having precognition of some future events. She recognizes that Zoe is a catalyst. She suggested earlier that Lacy go find "whatever Zoe had been working on" to feel close to her? Maybe because she foresees that Daniel will catch her? Oh yeah, Clarice is unsavory and she has knowledge.
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Old April 17 2009, 11:07 PM   #65
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Re: Caprica - Grading & Discussion

I'm about halfway through, though I've already read the script so I was spoiled already.

Is it just me, though, or does Daniel Greystone sound (and even a little look) like an older Lee Adama? Could Carolanne be Carolanne Greystone?
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Old April 18 2009, 01:38 AM   #66
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Re: Caprica - Grading & Discussion

CarolAnne Graystone? No, I think that would be pushing it. I think the resemblance between Stoltz and Bamber is coincidental. Nice thought, though. I wonder if Zoe-A purposely starts the rebellion because the other centurions are being used as soldiers to butcher people. A child's mind might see that as proper punishment from the one true God. Lesser of two evils maybe? Can a replicated copy of a 16 year old's consciousness mature like a real person's can? Zoe, Ben and Lacy (had Ben not been a terrorist) might have grown out of their all too certain, teen typical delusions of grandeur that they could use Zoe-A to "change all that" debauchery and whatnot. Just because Zoe didn't believe in violence doesn't mean that Zoe-A won't eventually be enraged enough to use it.
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Old April 18 2009, 02:58 AM   #67
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Re: Caprica - Grading & Discussion

GodBen wrote: View Post
That's something which bothers me, Bill Adama seems too old. EJO is only 62, but according to this timeline Adama was 74 in Daybreak. What's more, that would have made Adama 30 during the Razor flashback, so he only joined the Colonial fleet during the dying days of the war even though he would have been eligible for at least 12 years?
The copy of the script that I have has it as 51 years before the fall. I bet that it was written forgetting that the webisodes had established what "Razor" didn't. At 51 years before the fall, that would make him 23 when the war ended--or just the right age to have graduated from their version of Annapolis. Only problem is, if you accept the webisodes' Chryons that places "Caprica" during the war.
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Old April 18 2009, 03:01 AM   #68
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Re: Caprica - Grading & Discussion

Dorian Thompson wrote: View Post
CarolAnne Graystone? No, I think that would be pushing it.
Yeah, but that hasn't stopped the writers before. (See also: most of the Final Five selections.)
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Old April 18 2009, 03:06 AM   #69
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Re: Caprica - Grading & Discussion

Maybe Capricans live 20 to 30 years longer than humans?
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Old April 18 2009, 03:08 AM   #70
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Re: Caprica - Grading & Discussion

Dorian Thompson wrote: View Post
Maybe Capricans live 20 to 30 years longer than humans?
Live longer, maybe, but Hera and Boxey also show that they mature faster.
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Old April 18 2009, 03:40 AM   #71
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Re: Caprica - Grading & Discussion

Sadly, I thought it was only average, and then only because the last half an hour started to turn things around after an interminable first hour in which I checked the time far too often.

For most of the episode the plot seemed to spin its wheels, especially when you consider every major character had been introduced by the time
The leadened pace was particularly infuriating because from that point onwards it was so obvious where things were going. To that end, a surprise or two would have been nice.

I also found some of the conceits behind the show rather hard to take, in particular:


Unfortunately, many of the performances were distractingly wooden, particularly Esai Morales and some of the younger cast members. Morales seemed to get a handle on the role a bit more towards the end of the pilot, but this was not a auspicious way to start things, particularly in the wake of nuBSG, where the performances were so consistently great from the get go.

On the upside however, the


As I mentioned earlier, things seemed to turn around in the last half an hour. The plot seemed to find some legs, touched on some interesting, if not provocative points and signalled a more engaging if somewhat hokey direction for the series. It's enough to get me back for the first episode proper, but I do wonder if people not as invested in nuBSG as I was will stick with the entire pilot episode (let alone the series) if I found it a bit of chore.

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Old April 19 2009, 10:42 AM   #72
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Re: Caprica - Grading & Discussion

I really liked this pilot--it's not perfect, but it shows a great deal of promise. I voted above average.

I think the casting of Esai Morales was spot on--not only does he physically resemble the grown-up Bill Adama, but he's got the gravelly voice and taciturn manner down perfectly.

Sister Clarice seems a wild card--even though she was on-screen for all of 5 minutes, I think she's the character to watch. Her motivations and where her true loyalties lie (monotheism vs. polytheism) seem murky, to say the least--her 'coming out' to Lacy seems calculated and to me, not completely genuine.

Can't wait to see where the show goes once it starts regular episodes in 2010--I'm cautiously optimistic.
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Old April 19 2009, 04:17 PM   #73
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Re: Caprica - Grading & Discussion

I'm surprised that people find it troubling that the Cylon's motivations may have come from a 16 y/o girl.

Personally it makes ALOT of sense. For starters, the motivation is clearly not exactly Zoe's. The pilot makes pretty clear that something went wrong with the transfer. Its entirely possible that as with V'Ger and Nomad in Star Trek or HAL in 2001, that the conflicting programming is the genesis of the problem. There seems to be 2 seperate programs running in the Cylon prototype and they are in contradiction.


As for the rest, I love that they are showing that Caprica was not always as retrograde as what we saw on BSG. There is an irony that the world that Bill Adama grew up in was far more advanced than the one Lee and Kara will know. I like how people are still more concerned with the actions of other people and not nearly as concerned about their machines.

Finally, I like the noticeable absence of the Colonial Federal Government. There is no mention of a Colonial Fleet or the President of the Colonies. Each colony is responsible for its own defense and may use force against one another.
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Old April 19 2009, 05:31 PM   #74
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Re: Caprica - Grading & Discussion

species5618 wrote: View Post
Sister Clarice seems a wild card--even though she was on-screen for all of 5 minutes, I think she's the character to watch. Her motivations and where her true loyalties lie (monotheism vs. polytheism) seem murky, to say the least--her 'coming out' to Lacy seems calculated and to me, not completely genuine.
Calculated, perhaps, but she obviously knows more than the average person about the cult (whose name I forget), if she knows their symbol.
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Old April 19 2009, 07:59 PM   #75
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Re: Caprica - Grading & Discussion

I voted above average. Like others, I was bored through a lot of the first 45 minutes, esepcially with the virtual sin den, which seemed to be a rip-off of everything I've seen and read since snowcrash. It seemed to pick up to me, at the Pyramid game when Daniel asked "the question".
I'm sufficiently intrigued to watch the regular series, although some of the dropped plot threads still bother me (what are the motivations behind the bombing in the first place?)
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