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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old April 16 2009, 01:26 PM   #721
StarryEyed
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Dane_Whitman wrote: View Post
Agreed, I find False Profits a terrible bore. The last thing VOY needed was a Ferengi episode, it wasn't funny and the crew was acting beyond stupid.
I disagree about the funny part. Exploitation begins at home!

I agree completely about the crew being stupid and incompetent. It was nothing though compared to how stupid the crew was in "Rascals" - my pick for the worst episode of ST-TNG by far. Maybe Ferengi have the ability to telepathically feeble-mind their opponents.
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Old April 16 2009, 01:48 PM   #722
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

False Profits is entertaining. I would give it **½ or ***.
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Old April 16 2009, 03:10 PM   #723
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I found False Profits pretty funny. Not as funny as m,ost DS9 Ferengi episodes (The Magnificent Ferengi still makes me laugh when I think of it, even though I saw it a couple of months ago), but still pretty funny. StarryEyed seems to have a point about Ferengi telepathically making people stupid though, as in many Ferengi episodes including this one, people act pretty dumb.
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Old April 16 2009, 05:43 PM   #724
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I agree with the review about False Profits. Not a good episode at all, but that's mostly because other than a few exceptions on DS9, I don't like Ferengi episodes. This one seemed to be one of the worst.
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Old April 16 2009, 06:00 PM   #725
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

apenpaap wrote: View Post
I found False Profits pretty funny. Not as funny as m,ost DS9 Ferengi episodes (The Magnificent Ferengi still makes me laugh when I think of it, even though I saw it a couple of months ago), but still pretty funny. StarryEyed seems to have a point about Ferengi telepathically making people stupid though, as in many Ferengi episodes including this one, people act pretty dumb.
Ah, that must be why Betazoids can't read them. The stupid field overloads their brains.
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Old April 16 2009, 07:58 PM   #726
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

The Ferengi do seem to have an innate ability to drag people down to their level. On the other hand, maybe people always underestimate them - Quark, Rom and Nog were incredibly resourceful.
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Old April 16 2009, 08:04 PM   #727
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

"The Chute"

I'm a bit unsure what to think of this episode. The story is good but it's too melodramatic for my taste and nothing is happening most of the time. Still, a good episode.

I'll give it 3 points out of 5.
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Old April 16 2009, 08:44 PM   #728
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Lynx wrote: View Post
"The Chute"

I'm a bit unsure what to think of this episode. The story is good but it's too melodramatic for my taste and nothing is happening most of the time. Still, a good episode.

I'll give it 3 points out of 5.
On TNG they always go on and on about not sending the Captain on dangerous away missions - starfleet policy. So why oh why oh why when Voyager is stuck where it couldn't just get replacement senior staff is the Captain the one to go first and whizz down that chute into who knows what to get her crew members back? Any competent phaser wielding person could've gone.

That's something that happens a lot in Voyager I've noticed - the very senior staff go off together into dangerous places. Pretty stoopid.
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Old April 16 2009, 09:17 PM   #729
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Remember (*½)

What is worse than an episode which could have been done on TNG? How about an episode which was already done on TNG? Okay, that's not entirely fair, only the first half was a copy of Violations, the second half was its own story. My big problem with this episode is the first half which I feel is entirely unneeded and seems to just be there to fill time. Once you get to the second half of the story it gets better.

Even still, the second half suffers from some major problems, the biggest of which is that we never get to see how the Regressives live so it is hard to judge them. For all we know the propaganda could be true, they could be unruly and trying to bring down normal society, the episode just wants us to side with B'Elanna unquestionably. Or maybe the memories were distorted, they did come from a woman on the brink of death after all.

The entire episode hinges on a plea to emotion rather than rational thought based on evidence, that is not how an exploration of societal issues should be handled. There is a good story in here somewhere, but it is hidden behind the gimmick of telepathic memories which take up most of the story. And even though Roxann Dawson is on screen for most of the episode, there is no character exploration of B'Elanna because most of the time she is playing someone else. This episode was TNG fare, and it wasn't even good TNG fare.

Ah well, I'll probably forget it again by next month.
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Old April 16 2009, 09:33 PM   #730
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I'll flatly admit that I had to look this episode up because I didn't remember it, but I did once I looked it up, unfortunately.

This episode has so many problems that I think anything over a half-star is being too generous. It's not so bad it's unwatchable, so much as it is boring. Your suggestion for ditching the first half 'mystery' would have helped, but ultimately as you point out the emotional argument is the wrong way to approach social issues - at least without the counterpoint of rational thought.

Interestingly, the Memory Alpha article mentions this:
Jeri Taylor stated that both this episode and the previous one ("False Profits") were examples of episodes which "didn't work". (Star Trek: Voyager - A Vision of the Future)
How interesting.
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Old April 16 2009, 10:23 PM   #731
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

^^
I have to disagree here. I like "Remember". A thought-provoking and well-written story about genocide and the falsification of history. I also think that it's one of Dawson's best performances, even if she's not really B'Elanna in this episode. A good and exciting episode.

I'll give it 4 points out of 5.

As for Jeri Taylor, is she criticizing those episodes because she didn't write them herself?
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Old April 16 2009, 10:31 PM   #732
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I'm with Lynx on this one. I found the episode interesting and powerful.
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Old April 16 2009, 10:35 PM   #733
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

YMMV, of course, Lynx and StarryEyed. It just bored me because it didn't offer anything new. With the high-concept premise of VGR in particular, I wanted new and different.

As to this--

Lynx wrote: View Post
As for Jeri Taylor, is she criticizing those episodes because she didn't write them herself?
A valid question. There weren't even her much-maligned arcs present here. I've often wondered when the producers admit that something 'didn't work' if it isn't their tails-tucked way of just admitting that a chunk of the fans didn't like it?
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Old April 16 2009, 11:37 PM   #734
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Praetor wrote: View Post

Lynx wrote: View Post
As for Jeri Taylor, is she criticizing those episodes because she didn't write them herself?
A valid question. There weren't even her much-maligned arcs present here. I've often wondered when the producers admit that something 'didn't work' if it isn't their tails-tucked way of just admitting that a chunk of the fans didn't like it?
Nah, she's just admitting it was a weak episode, which it undoubtedly was. The problem with these sorts of episodes is that they have to be interesting and entertaining in their own right, and have some meaning for our characters. When they work, like "The Inner Light", or I suppose "Far Beyond The Stars", they can be fantastic. I just don't think "Remember" succeeded on either front.

Incidentally, I just saw on Wiki that Jeri Taylor is the mother of Alexander Enberg, AKA: Ensign Vorik. I never knew that.
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Old April 17 2009, 12:09 AM   #735
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

It's been a long time since I watched most of the third season episodes, but I don't recall disliking this episode, really. Mostly for the ending - the woman isn't asking for forgiveness, just asking that someone knows and the truth doesn't die with her.

Though I'll agree that for an episode focused on B'Elanna, it doesn't really seem to care about the fact that it is focused on her - it could just as easily been Janeway, Kes, or even one of the male characters there.
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