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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old April 10 2009, 07:45 AM   #631
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Kaych wrote: View Post
I'll just say this, I'm in my senior year of high school, representing the target audience for this movie, and I've never heard of the term "sawbones" until now. Considering I don't know what it is, I can pretty much tell you no one else under 25 will either.
And stupidity like that is why Hollywood dumbs down pretty much everything that it puts out, because the assumption is that its audience is too stupid to be inspired to look something up if they don't understand it, and don't possibly want to learn anything from a movie or TV show.
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Old April 10 2009, 09:52 AM   #632
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

^^ True. Shows like Star Trek and Outer Limits sent me off to the library many times when I was in grade school.

It occurs to me that an even better comparison for this movie than "Heroes Reborn" would be the "Second Foundation Trilogy," the attempt by the Killer Bs to "modernize" Asimov. The three books were written by three very talented SF writers and contained many good ideas-- but those ideas were either contrary to what Asimov had established or completely inappropriate for the Foundation series (in fact, their explanation for the Human-only Galaxy is even more colossally inappropriate than the destruction of Vulcan is). So, instead of being an epic, it became an epic fail.
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Old April 10 2009, 10:23 AM   #633
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Is there an after-credit scene?
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Old April 10 2009, 10:58 AM   #634
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

ONLY 10,000 VULCANS LEFT??? Sorry, but I just cannot believe that. I mean they've been travelling through space for millennia, they must have plenty of colony worlds out there full of their own kind, i.e. the aforementioned Vulcanis Lunar Colony. I'd say there has to be considerably more than a mere ten thousand.

I still hate that they've destroyed Vulcan. I'd love for Spock Prime to travel a little way back in time and stop Nero from blowing it away, but I don't suppose we'll be getting that
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Old April 10 2009, 11:31 AM   #635
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

section9 wrote: View Post
Babaganoosh wrote: View Post
section9 wrote: View Post
I have a pet theory that I'd like to share with the group, based on the villain's name and based on the fact that this Project is to be a Trilogy
Where did you hear that there would be a trilogy? Apparently a sequel is being written, but that's all I'm aware of right now regarding any more films.
The cast are optioned for three films.
But does that necessarily mean that three films will be *made*?
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Old April 10 2009, 11:36 AM   #636
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

A thought that's just occurred to me: We know that a clone of Earth exists in the episode Miri. Well if there can be another Earth, why not another Vulcan? Maybe in the new timeline, such a duplicate world could become the new home of the refugees from the prime Vulcan? They'd have no trouble interbreeding with the planet's indigenous Vulcans, thus ensuring their race's continued survival in the Trek universe.
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Old April 10 2009, 11:44 AM   #637
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

section9 wrote: View Post
I have a pet theory that I'd like to share with the group, based on the villain's name and based on the fact that this Project is to be a Trilogy, imho. It somewhat follows of the early TOS Trek parallels of Romulan society with that of the Roman Empire.

[...] I believe that the Vulcans are being used as a parallel for the Jewish experience after A.D. 71. A highly educated people are suddenly few and made relatively powerless, and forced to migrated to a new home, or to many homes.
While I'm not sure that the creators are putting all that thought into it, the idea of Vulcan Diaspora surfaced of me, too. Maybe it's just because Nimoy infused his acting with some Jewish culture and symbolism, but the resonance is there.

Well, we will see.
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Old April 10 2009, 12:46 PM   #638
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Please tell me.

will we see the crew together in the final scene?
Will we see Kirk in capitain chair?
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Old April 10 2009, 01:25 PM   #639
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Kaych wrote: View Post
I'll just say this, I'm in my senior year of high school, representing the target audience for this movie, and I've never heard of the term "sawbones" until now. Considering I don't know what it is, I can pretty much tell you no one else under 25 will either.
Just to jump in the fray here and add my thoughts for what they are worth - I indeed believe it was the writer's intent to have the 'Bones' nickname for McCoy be short for 'Sawbones' the Civil War era term for a doctor. (Because of the perception that all they ever did to treat bullet wounds to limbs was saw the limb off).

I believe this to be so because of two reasons. One, television at the time leading up to the premiere of the TOS was littered with cowboy and western shows, many times in these shows a doctor was referred to as a 'Sawbones' so it would be a term that was familiar to the general TV watching public.
Secondly, Rodenberry pitched his show as 'Wagon Train to the stars!" to the TV execs. Wagon Train being a popular western TV show at the time. I think when the McCoy character was added it was done so to create a familiar atmosphere for the casual viewer while still having a sci-fi show.

Remember the only other space faring Doctor on TV at the time was Dr. Smith of Lost in Space, and well, we did not want that perception of McCoy did we?
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Old April 10 2009, 02:02 PM   #640
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

section9 wrote: View Post
nordmoon wrote: View Post
FarDreaming wrote: View Post
With only 10,000 Vulcans left in the entire universe, I'd say the odds are very slim that any Vulcans from future series would be born, as both parents would need to have survived and be in a position to get together!
Only 10'000 vulcans? Where did you get that number from?

I can't believe that this will be the end for the Vulcan. I must believe that they will survive even if they are less now.

Everyone will go like "Vulcans? Who are they?" or "Oh, they are the ones that lost their planet?"

I wonder what kind of impact the vulcan's had on the future to come and I guess that could be explored in future? Perhaps we will have a world more like Star Wars.. ! Oh well!

How did the old Spock react when Vulcan was destroyed? Did he reveal his true identity to the younger Spock and explained what has happened and what kind of impact it will have?
I have a pet theory that I'd like to share with the group, based on the villain's name and based on the fact that this Project is to be a Trilogy, imho. It somewhat follows of the early TOS Trek parallels of Romulan society with that of the Roman Empire.

The villain, Nero, is actually named after the Emperor Nero who sent General (later Emperor) Vespasian into Judea with to suppress the Jewish Revolt in A.D. 66. With Vespasian went two veteran Legions, X Fretensis and V Macedonia. These veteran legionaries, 60,000 strong, ruthlessly supressed resistance in Northern Judea. By the end of A.D. 68, resistance in Galilee and the rest of the North had been crushed.

While the Romans bided their time, two things occurred. Civil war broke out amongst the Jews, leading to great bloodletting and a purge of those Jewish leaders who advocated negotiation with Vespasian. Negotiations were made moot, however, when Emperor Nero was murdered and Vespasian himself called back by the Army and crowned Emperor. Vespasian appointed his own son, Flavius Titus, to be Commander of the Roman Expeditinary Army.

The Jewish Resistance, led primarily by the Zealots, fell back on Jerusalem and (later) the fortress of Masada, one of King Herod's old castles. Titus besieged Jerusalem and breached its walls in the Summer of A.D. 70. It was at the conclusion of this siege that the City was sacked and the Second Temple put to the torch. The Zealots then fell back upon Masada. Flavius Titus had to leave for Rome, and his legate, Brassus, died in Campaign. This left command to the very capable Flavius Silva. By now, A.D. 71, Julius Caesar's own Legio X had landed and was ordered to lay siege to the impenetrable fortress. The results of the siege are known to history.

The results of the Jewish Revolt are known as well: the Jews were scattered or enslaved in Diaspora for two thousand years. Emperor Nero was the individual who first incited their diaspora by suppressing the Jewish Revolt in 66. I believe that the Vulcans are being used as a parallel for the Jewish experience after A.D. 71. A highly educated people are suddenly few and made relatively powerless, and forced to migrated to a new home, or to many homes.

There is, imho, much more to JJ's new Star Trek trilogy than action and adventure. The destruction of Vulcan is not just for shock value, but is pregnant with meaning and will speak volumes about just how far the Federation has advanced as a culture. The reaction of humans and others to the destruction of Vulcan, and to Vulcans themselves, will say more about us than it will about them.

If JJ, Orci, and Kurtzman are doing what I think they are doing, they are following in the finest traditions of Trek storywriting.
If...IF this is correct, then not only are they following in the finest traditions of Trek storytelling but they have transcended it.

It is a fairly well known fact that Leonard Nimoy is very active within the Jewish community/causes and this could very well explain his enthusiasm for Abrams' project.

You have reined in my trepidation and I am now drooling again to see this film. Thank you!
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Old April 10 2009, 02:13 PM   #641
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Neopeius wrote: View Post
Enjoy your mediocrity, Dennis.
One of these days you'll actually express some enthusiasm for something that you consider exceptionally good, and I'll have a baseline against which to evaluate your...evaluations.

The fact that you don't like this explanation for the nickname is just that - a dislike. It has nothing to do with the intelligence or other quality of the piece.
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Old April 10 2009, 02:16 PM   #642
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

ODO_FAN_1977 wrote: View Post
[B]With regards to the erosion of viewers from DS9, I do put part of the blame on the attitude of some fans.
TNG had a huge audience of casual fans - it was quite a popular show with entire families, which was one of the things Paramount valued about it marketing-wise. It wasn't trek fans that really abandoned DS9, it was the big audience - and the expressed attitudes of the fandom didn't have much impact on that.

Kaych wrote: View Post
I'll just say this, I'm in my senior year of high school, representing the target audience for this movie, and I've never heard of the term "sawbones" until now. Considering I don't know what it is, I can pretty much tell you no one else under 25 will either.
And there's no reason that they should. Got nothing to do with "mediocrity" and everything to do with the fact that the world, and of course language, changes every day. That alone - the world always changing - accounts for 90% of fannish complaints about this movie. Pretty pathetic.
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Old April 10 2009, 02:27 PM   #643
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Kaych wrote: View Post
I'll just say this, I'm in my senior year of high school, representing the target audience for this movie, and I've never heard of the term "sawbones" until now. Considering I don't know what it is, I can pretty much tell you no one else under 25 will either.
I'm 22 and I've heard the term "sawbones". Did you study the Civil War in history class?
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Old April 10 2009, 02:28 PM   #644
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Lazerlike42-- Thanks!
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Old April 10 2009, 02:31 PM   #645
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

SeamusShameless wrote: View Post
I'm 22 and I've heard the term "sawbones". Did you study the Civil War in history class?
I'm in my fifties and have heard the phrase "23 skidoo." So?

Working that into Kirk's conversation in this movie would make as much sense as "sawbones."
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