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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old April 10 2009, 03:26 AM   #616
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

They had a little mishap on the sickbay set...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtosEkzHzLA
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Old April 10 2009, 03:34 AM   #617
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

There are quite a few people on this board who would have been genuinely thrilled if the Trek XI production design had been identical to the sets and costumes used in This Ain't Star Trek XXX.


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Old April 10 2009, 03:37 AM   #618
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Kelso wrote: View Post
There are quite a few people on this board who would have been genuinely thrilled if the Trek XI production design had been identical to the sets and costumes used in This Ain't Star Trek XXX.


Probably.

"This Ain't Star Trek" isn't up to the set design standards of some of the better fan films - imagine if it were! - but the folks who built this stuff clearly are real familiar with and fond of Trek, as apparently are some of the performers as well.
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Old April 10 2009, 03:42 AM   #619
section9
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Kelso wrote: View Post
There are quite a few people on this board who would have been genuinely thrilled if the Trek XI production design had been identical to the sets and costumes used in This Ain't Star Trek XXX.


Look, hand it to Larry Flynt; at least Uhura is played by Jada Fire (although personally, I could think of better AVN starlets to play Uhura than Jada).
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Old April 10 2009, 03:56 AM   #620
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Yeah, Jada Fire wouldn't have been my first choice.
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Old April 10 2009, 04:18 AM   #621
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

You know I was wondering, I get that the Kelvin blowing to bits had a huge impact on Kirk's life and altered the timeline for him and thus his actions in starfleet and when he met his crew...etc.

But why would it effect when the Enterprise itself it built? Why would the Kelvin blowing to bits cause the Enterprise to not be built for at least 10-15 years later than it was intended since it was a brand new ship when Pike took it Vulcan apparently according to what Pike says and in the old timeline Pike was captain of it for I believe 11 years?

Thats the only thing I can't figure out.
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Old April 10 2009, 04:22 AM   #622
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Because the construction of that vessel was not delayed. There was a Constitution-class vessel, nearly identical to the TOS Enterprise, that was launched from orbital drydock at the time that the TOS Enterprise would have been.

In fact, that ship would have been the "Enterprise" except for the Kelvin disaster.

Instead, it was christened "U.S.S. Robau."
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Old April 10 2009, 04:23 AM   #623
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

section9 wrote: View Post
I have a pet theory that I'd like to share with the group, based on the villain's name and based on the fact that this Project is to be a Trilogy
Where did you hear that there would be a trilogy? Apparently a sequel is being written, but that's all I'm aware of right now regarding any more films.
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Old April 10 2009, 04:29 AM   #624
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

FarDreaming wrote: View Post
But that is the difference between a well written character and a pedestrian one. A well written character will have multiple layers, just as a real person does. The writer will take into account the experiences that made their character the way he is. Otherwise, all we have is a cookie cutter just going through the motions. It is for the writers to decide which approach to take, but to me, as a viewer and a fan, the prior is certainly the more satisfactory one.
Strawman argument. Just because Spock is going to have a different background doesn't preclude him being well-written or layered.
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Old April 10 2009, 04:53 AM   #625
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Lazerlike42 wrote: View Post
darkwing_duck1 wrote: View Post
Starship Polaris wrote: View Post

Unfortunately it didn't reduce the erosion of viewership.
Which can be blamed on the implosion of the syndication market and the general splintering of the viewership base across the board brought on by the rise of the 2nd generation cable franchises but also satellite TV.

Honestly... this might get me into big trouble around here, but we'll see. I think that one of the problems Trek has had in the past decade and a half or so has been some of it's fans attitudes - not all of them, by any means. At some point, lots of folks decided Rick Berman was awful and just decided not to pay attention to anything he was involved in. That doesn't mean he didn't make poor Trek or hurt the franchise. It just means that at a certain point, folks stopped giving stuff he did a chance to see if it actually was any good.

So lots of folks just started not tuning in. In fact, this was most noticable with Enterprise. I've seen an awful lot of folks on boards talk about how they never watched it in the original run, or how they hated it, but now watching re-runs on Sci-Fi they realize that it was actually a pretty good show. Not everyone will share that opinion. The point is just that if you go around the net you'll find a significant number of people who'll right out and say that they were so angry at the time they wouldn't give it a chance, and now years later that they've "cooled off" they can see the show for what it really was and actually enjoy it.
With regards to the erosion of viewers from DS9, I do put part of the blame on the attitude of some fans. In particular, those fans who argued that the show was "boring" because it was set on a space station and didn't go anywhere. As someone who feels that DS9 really pushed the franchise forward, creatively speaking, these comments still upset me to this day. Not to mention, that these comments probably made Berman and company less likely to take risks, particularly when it came to VOY, In fact, I find a lot of the criticism of VOY particularly interesting since it many respects Berman and company gave some what they asked for (BTW, I like VOY, despite some of its shortcomings).

When it comes to Star Trek XI, I have very mixed feelings, in part because of the above. One of the things I have noticed in the reviews that have come out, is that they seem very dismissive of the material that preceded the film. The tag line "forget all you know" does not help much either.

Furthermore, while the reviewers seem to focus on how great the film looks (no surprise given the budget), the spoilers suggest that the film threads on very familiar ground (revenge plot, weapon of mass destruction), while not pushing the envelope in terms of story or sci-fi content. Also, based on the spoilers, I do not really see the need for creating an alternative timeline. IMO, they could have crafted a good origin story, while keeping the timeline more or less intact. Some inconsistencies and were bound to happen in any such story (even the most hardcore fan will admit to the inconsistencies present in the first season of TOS regarding the nature of Earth, Starfleet, and the Federation), but the destruction of Vulcan, death of Amanda, and the changes these events will undoable have on the character of Spock seem drastic and unnecessary. As some have already pointed out, this is bound to change the dynamic between Kirk, Spock, and McCoy, the heart of TOS.

With that said, I am looking forward to the Kobayashi Maru scene, Kirk meeting McCoy, Kirk meeting Old Spock, and Greenwood's performance as Pike among others.

As a Star Trek fan since 1987, when I first saw TVH on video, followed by TNG shortly thereafter, I want Star Trek XI to be succeed. However, I am bothered by this tendency of bashing the previous incarnations of Star Trek as way to promote or elevate this film's worth.

Each Star Trek, whether it was Rodenberry's, Meyer's, Berman's, Behr's and Abrams' has had its strengths and weaknesses.
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Old April 10 2009, 05:03 AM   #626
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Starship Polaris wrote: View Post
Neopeius wrote: View Post
od0_ital wrote: View Post

When Kirk & McCoy first meet aboard the shuttle, McCoy has a long ass monologue about all the dangers of space & how easy it is to die in it. Kirk makes the comment that Starfleet operates in outer space. McCoy says that his ex-wife got the whole damned planet in the divorce, and all he, McCoy, has left is his bones.

And, thus, the nickname is born.
This is a joke, right? That has to be the most retarded, least necessary explanation for his name *ever*.
Everyone probably won't agree. The business about the wife getting the whole planet is pretty damned funny, and fannish assumptions about the derivation of his nickname have never been very imaginative.
Yes, "bones" being derived from "sawbones" because McCoy was a doctor was too abstruse for the average moviegoer to get.

Enjoy your mediocrity, Dennis.
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Old April 10 2009, 05:09 AM   #627
Kaych
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

I'll just say this, I'm in my senior year of high school, representing the target audience for this movie, and I've never heard of the term "sawbones" until now. Considering I don't know what it is, I can pretty much tell you no one else under 25 will either.
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Old April 10 2009, 05:13 AM   #628
section9
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Babaganoosh wrote: View Post
section9 wrote: View Post
I have a pet theory that I'd like to share with the group, based on the villain's name and based on the fact that this Project is to be a Trilogy
Where did you hear that there would be a trilogy? Apparently a sequel is being written, but that's all I'm aware of right now regarding any more films.
The cast are optioned for three films. Dead giveaway. JJ has LOTR ambitions, methinks.
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Last edited by section9; April 10 2009 at 05:14 AM. Reason: Expanded explanation.
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Old April 10 2009, 05:25 AM   #629
Lazerlike42
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Supervisor 194 wrote: View Post
FarDreaming wrote: View Post
But that is the difference between a well written character and a pedestrian one. A well written character will have multiple layers, just as a real person does. The writer will take into account the experiences that made their character the way he is. Otherwise, all we have is a cookie cutter just going through the motions. It is for the writers to decide which approach to take, but to me, as a viewer and a fan, the prior is certainly the more satisfactory one.
Strawman argument. Just because Spock is going to have a different background doesn't preclude him being well-written or layered.
While I am not particularly concerned with the particular point that you and FarDreaming are discussing, I must point out that you are arguing in circles now.

Originally, FarDreaming said that they will need to seriously change the character of Spock from TOS because of the destruction of Vulcan. To this, you said:

"If Spock were a real person, you'd be absolutely correct. However, as a fictional character Spock is literally whatever the writers say he is. I suspect the Kirk/Spock/McCoy we see coming out of the film will be close to the general confines of the characters established by TOS. Does that work if you compare them to the events of TOS? Probably not, but that's just the way ongoing fiction works."

To this, FarDreaming replied that this sort of thing is the difference between a well-written character and a poorly written one. A poorly written character simply has the personality that the writers want him to, even if it does not make sense given his experiences. A well-written character, on the other hand, has a personality which flows from and is connected to the experiences he's had.

Your response is now that just because Spock has a different background from Spock Prime, it doesn't prevent him from being well-written. This is certainly true.

However, the original point that FarDreaming made was that if this new Spock is to be well-written, he will not be able to be the same as Spock Prime because of the dramatic differences in their life experiences. The destrcution of Vulcan will have to lead him to be a very different character. If the creators simply ignore this tremendous event in his life and write him to be very similar to Spock Prime because "that's what they want him to be," then he will be poorly written. If they take into account that he has lost his entire planet and write him accordingly differently, he can be well-written.

The point is that he can not be both well-written and very similar to Spock Prime, because Spock Prime never experienced this event that must surely shape the "new" Spock's personality in a profound way.
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Old April 10 2009, 05:44 AM   #630
Supervisor 194
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Lazerlike42 wrote: View Post
Supervisor 194 wrote: View Post
FarDreaming wrote: View Post
But that is the difference between a well written character and a pedestrian one. A well written character will have multiple layers, just as a real person does. The writer will take into account the experiences that made their character the way he is. Otherwise, all we have is a cookie cutter just going through the motions. It is for the writers to decide which approach to take, but to me, as a viewer and a fan, the prior is certainly the more satisfactory one.
Strawman argument. Just because Spock is going to have a different background doesn't preclude him being well-written or layered.
While I am not particularly concerned with the particular point that you and FarDreaming are discussing, I must point out that you are arguing in circles now.

Originally, FarDreaming said that they will need to seriously change the character of Spock from TOS because of the destruction of Vulcan. To this, you said:

"If Spock were a real person, you'd be absolutely correct. However, as a fictional character Spock is literally whatever the writers say he is. I suspect the Kirk/Spock/McCoy we see coming out of the film will be close to the general confines of the characters established by TOS. Does that work if you compare them to the events of TOS? Probably not, but that's just the way ongoing fiction works."

To this, FarDreaming replied that this sort of thing is the difference between a well-written character and a poorly written one. A poorly written character simply has the personality that the writers want him to, even if it does not make sense given his experiences. A well-written character, on the other hand, has a personality which flows from and is connected to the experiences he's had.

Your response is now that just because Spock has a different background from Spock Prime, it doesn't prevent him from being well-written. This is certainly true.

However, the original point that FarDreaming made was that if this new Spock is to be well-written, he will not be able to be the same as Spock Prime because of the dramatic differences in their life experiences. The destrcution of Vulcan will have to lead him to be a very different character. If the creators simply ignore this tremendous event in his life and write him to be very similar to Spock Prime because "that's what they want him to be," then he will be poorly written. If they take into account that he has lost his entire planet and write him accordingly differently, he can be well-written.

The point is that he can not be both well-written and very similar to Spock Prime, because Spock Prime never experienced this event that must surely shape the "new" Spock's personality in a profound way.
In a sequel: it is possible Spock can be well-written, and follow up on the events of the first movie OR Spock could be well-written and the events of the first film not be mentioned at all. Or he could be poorly written. In any event, the events of the film do not "lock" Spock into anything other than what the writers choose for him. It is entirely possible to get a Spock/McCoy/Kirk dynamic that is similar to TOS by way of the events of the first film, if that's what the film makers choose to do.
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