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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old April 7 2009, 08:27 PM   #151
Brent
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

mswood wrote: View Post
And Really we have had several planetary sized disasters from the Doomsday Machine destroying full planets, to Nomad, to the damned space aomeba (sp). And just because the planet is destroyed doesn't mean that the Vulcan's people are all destroyed or their importance to the Federation.
precisely, i'm sure they had colonies and such, i doubt all vulcans are dead, their species will live on
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Old April 7 2009, 08:27 PM   #152
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Oh, for crying out loud; wear black and go light a candle. Maybe somebody will launch a Genesis device into the rubble and the whole lot of 'em will reincarnate.

"Don't Change Anything" - "All The Stories Are The Same"
"It's A Rehash" - "Maybe They Can Meet Khan Again."
"Reboots Suck" - "Maybe They Can Reboot TNG"

"Reboot," "Alternate Universe," Whatever. It's what we've got. Deal with it - and the consequences of this new storyline - or lock yourself away with your reruns and write fanfic. It is what it is.
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Old April 7 2009, 08:30 PM   #153
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

well the most prominent problem i can foresee is that star trek will seize to exist the way we knew it.

if this movie happens to be a success at the box office the next movie will most likely pick up where this one has ended. all future tv series are likely to feature storylines which are connected to this alternate reality.

dont get me wrong, this might be an enjoyable flick but if this movie is a success "nuStar Trek" might alter our view on the things which seperate a Star Trek movie from every other big budget sci fi movie
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Old April 7 2009, 08:32 PM   #154
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

mswood wrote: View Post
And Really we have had several planetary sized disasters from the Doomsday Machine destroying full planets, to Nomad, to the damned space aomeba (sp). And just because the planet is destroyed doesn't mean that the Vulcan's people are all destroyed or their importance to the Federation.
I wonder what would happen to America if 90% of its population and territory were destroyed? You think this wouldn't have apocalyptic ramafications for the American people and the world at large? And comparing the destruction of Vulcan to unnamed meaningless worlds makes little sense.
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Old April 7 2009, 08:35 PM   #155
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Jefferies wrote: View Post
urbandk wrote: View Post
Jefferies wrote: View Post

The destruction of one of the founding worlds that made that utopia happen somehow doesn't make sense. They could have blown up Earth in stead, as far as the Federation is concerned the difference would have been negligible. This is not utopian and if it were realistic in any fashion it would cast a very dark cloud of doom over the Federation for a long long time. Just imagine if the state of New York were entirely wiped out by terrorists. I doubt America would recovery from that any time soon, and nor would there world as there would be hell to pay I'm sure.
it is a big deal. but isn't how we face tragedy more a test of who we are as a people than how we face good times?
That is naive and totally simplistic. An extreme disaster like that will not let any people, regardless of how advanced they are just continue as if nothing happened. Dispair and grief seem much more likely and I doubt that was the future Roddenberry had in mind. Star Trek was about a future where we live in safty, where there are no WMDs to scare us shitless any more. That was one of the big morale points of the show - humanity having overcome the Cold War and all those types of conflicts not just with themselves but with a larger community of intelligent beings. This movie seems to make a mockery of that vision.
Excuse me, but we had 9/11. We ARE at peace with other beings. VULCUNS !!!! OTHER ALIENS !!!!

The Planet Killer destroyed planets and starships (the Doomsday Machine).

Vejur destroyed countless worlds.

Star Trek is not about us being in a Utopia, it is about us being better, and surviving to that future.

There was conflict with the Romulans and the Klingons.

The antagonists actions have NOTHING TO DO WITH HUMANITY'S SENSIBILITIES !!!!!

Saying this film violates Gene Roddenberry's visoon of HUMANITY (not Romulans) is absolutely incorrect.
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Old April 7 2009, 08:40 PM   #156
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

OneBuckFilms wrote: View Post
Jefferies wrote: View Post
urbandk wrote: View Post

it is a big deal. but isn't how we face tragedy more a test of who we are as a people than how we face good times?
That is naive and totally simplistic. An extreme disaster like that will not let any people, regardless of how advanced they are just continue as if nothing happened. Dispair and grief seem much more likely and I doubt that was the future Roddenberry had in mind. Star Trek was about a future where we live in safty, where there are no WMDs to scare us shitless any more. That was one of the big morale points of the show - humanity having overcome the Cold War and all those types of conflicts not just with themselves but with a larger community of intelligent beings. This movie seems to make a mockery of that vision.
Excuse me, but we had 9/11. We ARE at peace with other beings. VULCUNS !!!! OTHER ALIENS !!!!

The Planet Killer destroyed planets and starships (the Doomsday Machine).

Vejur destroyed countless worlds.

Star Trek is not about us being in a Utopia, it is about us being better, and surviving to that future.

There was conflict with the Romulans and the Klingons.

The antagonists actions have NOTHING TO DO WITH HUMANITY'S SENSIBILITIES !!!!!

Saying this film violates Gene Roddenberry's visoon of HUMANITY (not Romulans) is absolutely incorrect.
I am getting tired of repeating myself so I wont again. Read what I have already written or don't, I don't care. If you cannot see how this might be at odds with the peacful and hopeful future potrayed in Star Trek then that's your prerogative.
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Old April 7 2009, 08:42 PM   #157
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Jefferies wrote: View Post
I am getting tired of repeating myself so I wont again. Read what I have already written or don't, I don't care.
Good. You thoroughly failed to make your point convincingly.
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Old April 7 2009, 08:43 PM   #158
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Jefferies wrote: View Post
Starship Polaris wrote: View Post
Jefferies wrote: View Post
My point isn't that there can't be tragedy on Star Trek, but that this type of tragedy is so colossal and close to home, that it will destroy the positive and utopian outlook of the Federation.
No it won't.

Hell, my country is recovering from something that was tragic and awful and quite a shock to us - "this changes everything," everyone here told one another in 2001. What's remarkable, eight years later, is how little Americans have changed and how optimistic we remain.

(Oh, and Earth's optimism seems to have weathered the Xindi attack as well. )
The collapse of two buildings compares to the destruction of a large and ancient civilization how exactly? A comparable disaster (scaled down to earth proportions) would have been the nuclear carpet bombing of an entire state with a large population. I doubt America would be settling any time soon after an attack like that.
Emotionally, it is very similar. A direct strike, out of nowhere, on something fundamental, with a large loss of life.

Don't reduce it to "two buildings". The families don't. I don't. Al-Qaida don't when they celebrate.

Things happen we all have to deal with, and this is just as true in Star Trek as elsewhere.

Americans are NOT settling down from 9/11, but they are getting on with their lives, doing their best to deal with the aftermath.

The Federation is not tied to any one world. It, like America, is founded much more as an idea, an ideal, that has been made real.
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Old April 7 2009, 08:44 PM   #159
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

This new movie just sounds good. I've read every scrap of info I could find on the screening and it's multiplied my excitement. This apparently is a new and different Star Trek. You know that's life, things change. If it's going to continue into the future it's going to change.

I'm actually ok with people who aren't a fan of the new Star Trek not coming to this forum at all. I mean, this is for fans. I wouldn't want some college basketball fans invading this Star Trek fan forum either. If I didn't like the novels, then I just wouldn't be a fan of the novels and wouldn't go to the novels forum. This is the new direction of Star Trek, like it or not.

Maybe in the coming years some of these guys who are stuck in their ways and not willing to accept anything new or different will disappear from Trek fandom, and this new Star Trek will bring in a lot of new fans who are excited for the new direction.
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Old April 7 2009, 09:03 PM   #160
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

OneBuckFilms wrote: View Post

Emotionally, it is very similar. A direct strike, out of nowhere, on something fundamental, with a large loss of life.

Don't reduce it to "two buildings". The families don't. I don't. Al-Qaida don't when they celebrate.

Things happen we all have to deal with, and this is just as true in Star Trek as elsewhere.

Americans are NOT settling down from 9/11, but they are getting on with their lives, doing their best to deal with the aftermath.

The Federation is not tied to any one world. It, like America, is founded much more as an idea, an ideal, that has been made real.
Well I certainly don't want to margenalise what happend on 9/11. But what if that attack had been a lot worse, say not just 1000s dead, but 10s of millions? I think the anger, fear and retribution from that would have been understandably worse. In Irak probably hundres of thousands died as a concequence of the invasion which occured indirecctly as the result of what happened on 9/11. So what might have happened if 9/11 had been a lot worse, WWIII? Furthermore, the war in Iraq didn't exactly give me the impression that the American government was holding on to the ideals of the constitution all that tightly. But then again, the Federation might, maybe that's what some are interpreting as utopia in this thread.
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Old April 7 2009, 09:07 PM   #161
perigee
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

locborg wrote: View Post
well the most prominent problem i can foresee is that star trek will seize to exist the way we knew it.

if this movie happens to be a success at the box office the next movie will most likely pick up where this one has ended. all future tv series are likely to feature storylines which are connected to this alternate reality.

dont get me wrong, this might be an enjoyable flick but if this movie is a success "nuStar Trek" might alter our view on the things which seperate a Star Trek movie from every other big budget sci fi movie
Of Course Star Trek moving forward will be drastically altered.

It HAS to be.

TOS is reaching towards AARP status - and I don't say that lightly, because that's My series. It was my time, it was our circumstances at the time... and on Saturday mornings I'd laugh like a loon at that piece of junk that Buster Crabbe flew around in when he fought giant lizards and a bald-headed drag queen.

Now, Star Trek is Older than "Flash Gordon" was, when I thought it was pathetic. '66 Trek is over. Cyrano Jones is Done. Harry Mudd is Done. You're old enough now to just leave it. This is not your "Star Trek." It will Never be your "Star Trek." Yours is way over there, and the new one is way over here. Not Equivalent. Not Yours.

What we have now is "turning death into a fighting chance to live." This franchise, which we have loved so well, is now officially the property of a new generation. So far, it seems like we're doing better than the Star Wars fans got. Maybe, in 2050, there will still be a "Star Trek," which I promise will be completely different than anything you can imagine. Maybe Captain Jane Kirk - who knows? Who cares?

In the long run, the series becomes more than a franchise, and becomes something much more - the first real American Mythos. The American Illiad. The American Beowulf.

But you've got to let it go, to let it grow.
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Old April 7 2009, 09:13 PM   #162
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Again, LOOK AT IDW COMICS AND POCKET BOOKS. They are good indications that we don't have to mutilate the Star Trek universe in order to tell exciting new stories! Working new stories into the existing canon is part of the fun!!! If you start chucking huge great chunks of what's gone before out the window, it stops being fun, and is just indicative of a lazy attitude.
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Old April 7 2009, 09:14 PM   #163
OneBuckFilms
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Jefferies wrote: View Post
OneBuckFilms wrote: View Post

Emotionally, it is very similar. A direct strike, out of nowhere, on something fundamental, with a large loss of life.

Don't reduce it to "two buildings". The families don't. I don't. Al-Qaida don't when they celebrate.

Things happen we all have to deal with, and this is just as true in Star Trek as elsewhere.

Americans are NOT settling down from 9/11, but they are getting on with their lives, doing their best to deal with the aftermath.

The Federation is not tied to any one world. It, like America, is founded much more as an idea, an ideal, that has been made real.
Well I certainly don't want to margenalise what happend on 9/11. But what if that attack had been a lot worse, say not just 1000s dead, but 10s of millions? I think the anger, fear and retribution from that would have been understandably worse. In Irak probably hundres of thousands died as a concequence of the invasion which occured indirecctly as the result of what happened on 9/11. So what might have happened if 9/11 had been a lot worse, WWIII? Furthermore, the war in Iraq didn't exactly give me the impression that the American government was holding on to the ideals of the constitution all that tightly. But then again, the Federation might, maybe that's what some are interpreting as utopia in this thread.
Actually, the soldiers on the ground were. The American people wanted justice, but they still believed in democracy.

For goodness sake, that was one of th Bush administration's goals.

Methods and effectiveness are a different story in many cases.

The destruction of Vulcan in this film serves one key dramatic purpose: It raises the stakes. It raises them to a level where we are drawn into the situation.
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Old April 7 2009, 09:17 PM   #164
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

perigee wrote: View Post
Of Course Star Trek moving forward will be drastically altered.

It HAS to be.

TOS is reaching towards AARP status - and I don't say that lightly, because that's My series. It was my time, it was our circumstances at the time... and on Saturday mornings I'd laugh like a loon at that piece of junk that Buster Crabbe flew around in when he fought giant lizards and a bald-headed drag queen.

Now, Star Trek is Older than "Flash Gordon" was, when I thought it was pathetic. '66 Trek is over. Cyrano Jones is Done. Harry Mudd is Done. You're old enough now to just leave it. This is not your "Star Trek." It will Never be your "Star Trek." Yours is way over there, and the new one is way over here. Not Equivalent. Not Yours.

What we have now is "turning death into a fighting chance to live." This franchise, which we have loved so well, is now officially the property of a new generation. So far, it seems like we're doing better than the Star Wars fans got. Maybe, in 2050, there will still be a "Star Trek," which I promise will be completely different than anything you can imagine. Maybe Captain Jane Kirk - who knows? Who cares?

In the long run, the series becomes more than a franchise, and becomes something much more - the first real American Mythos. The American Illiad. The American Beowulf.

But you've got to let it go, to let it grow.
That's probably the smartest thing anybody has written about this topic the entire evening*...

*It's 10:16 P.M. where I'm right now.
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Old April 7 2009, 09:17 PM   #165
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Well what bothers me is that for the first time in ST history this movie is having a serious amount of covert advertising. in another spoiler i read that kirk is clearly driving a BMW motorcycle. this is not Star Trek as i remember it. covert advertising should always be a sacrilege in the Star Trek world.
What if the next movies featurs a warp core powered by general electrics or a microsoft lcars interface?
im afraid that JJ is capable of doing this...
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