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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old April 7 2009, 07:50 PM   #136
urbandk
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Jefferies wrote: View Post
urbandk wrote: View Post
Jefferies wrote: View Post
So that's it? They destroy Vulcan for good??? Is this a frakking joke??? So no more Vulcan in any future incarnations of "Star Trek"? This is the most ludicrous, rdiculous thing I have ever heard them do! Where on earth is the hope and humanity in that as Abrams keeps espousing? That must be billions dead! And don't give me this alternate universe crap with how it's all bright and dandy in the real Star Trek universe. Why is everyone so gang ho on watching an alternate universe anyway? If you hate Star Trek that much go and watch another show! For Christ's sake.

watch the movie for yourself.
I am sorry to say this, but if this is the type of thing this movie is about then I do not see myself watching it. This is meant to be a utopian future, not some type of armageddon endtime story.
it is a utopian future, but it is our future. bad things have certainly happened in star trek land before, need i remind you.
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Old April 7 2009, 07:53 PM   #137
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Jefferies wrote: View Post
This is meant to be a utopian future, not some type of armageddon endtime story.
Have you ever counted up the billions of intelligent creatures - entire planets - that were wiped out in the episodes of TOS?

Now, was that acceptably "utopian" just because they were people you didn't see, on worlds you had no investment in? Pretty shallow ground in which to stake your argument that this movie somehow violates the optimistic spirit of Star Trek.
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Old April 7 2009, 07:55 PM   #138
EJA
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Starship Polaris wrote: View Post
Jefferies wrote: View Post
Why is everyone so gang ho on watching an alternate universe anyway? If you hate Star Trek that much go and watch another show! For Christ's sake.
Nah, we get to watch this - and this is Star Trek.

"Alternate universe" my butt - it's a reboot with a little sleight-of-hand, and it's overdue.
And that's what bothers me. Regardless of what the producers say, this film's purpose is to entirely replace the original version of Star Trek, not to honour it. And before anyone starts on about how all these alterations mean new future storylines, let me point you in the direction of IDW Comics and Pocket Books, who produce cool, interesting stories and still remain entirely faithful to what has gone before. In doing away with Vulcan in this fashion, the new film simply cannot be called Star Trek. If Abrams & co. want to do this, they should remove the words Star Trek from the title, change the names of the characters, change the name of the ship, and change the names of the planets. What they are doing to the franchise isn't creative, it's LAZY.
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Old April 7 2009, 07:57 PM   #139
urbandk
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Starship Polaris wrote: View Post
Jefferies wrote: View Post
This is meant to be a utopian future, not some type of armageddon endtime story.
Have you ever counted up the billions of intelligent creatures - entire planets - that were wiped out in the episodes of TOS?

Now, was that acceptably "utopian" just because they were people you didn't see, on worlds you had no investment in? Pretty shallow ground in which to stake your argument that this movie somehow violates the optimistic spirit of Star Trek.
not a quote of me. EDIT EDIT!!!

[Fixed - there and here. - M']
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Last edited by M'Sharak; April 7 2009 at 08:06 PM. Reason: corrected quote attribution
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Old April 7 2009, 07:58 PM   #140
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

EJA wrote: View Post
And that's what bothers me. Regardless of what the producers say, this film's purpose is to entirely replace the original version of Star Trek, not to honour it.
Replace, no.

Succeed, yes.

Clearly, the studio wants to produce profitable Star Trek projects again. This is their best path to doing that; oldTrek was as lively as an insect in amber.
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Old April 7 2009, 07:59 PM   #141
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

urbandk wrote: View Post
Jefferies wrote: View Post
urbandk wrote: View Post


watch the movie for yourself.
I am sorry to say this, but if this is the type of thing this movie is about then I do not see myself watching it. This is meant to be a utopian future, not some type of armageddon endtime story.
it is a utopian future, but it is our future. bad things have certainly happened in star trek land before, need i remind you.
The destruction of one of the founding worlds that made that utopia happen somehow doesn't make sense. They could have blown up Earth in stead, as far as the Federation is concerned the difference would have been negligible. This is not utopian and if it were realistic in any fashion it would cast a very dark cloud of doom over the Federation for a long, long time. Just imagine if the state of New York were entirely wiped out by terrorists. I doubt America would recover from that any time soon, and nor would the world as there would be hell to pay I'm sure.
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Old April 7 2009, 08:00 PM   #142
urbandk
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Jefferies wrote: View Post
urbandk wrote: View Post
Jefferies wrote: View Post

I am sorry to say this, but if this is the type of thing this movie is about then I do not see myself watching it. This is meant to be a utopian future, not some type of armageddon endtime story.
it is a utopian future, but it is our future. bad things have certainly happened in star trek land before, need i remind you.
The destruction of one of the founding worlds that made that utopia happen somehow doesn't make sense. They could have blown up Earth in stead, as far as the Federation is concerned the difference would have been negligible. This is not utopian and if it were realistic in any fashion it would cast a very dark cloud of doom over the Federation for a long long time. Just imagine if the state of New York were entirely wiped out by terrorists. I doubt America would recovery from that any time soon, and nor would there world as there would be hell to pay I'm sure.
it is a big deal. but isn't how we face tragedy more a test of who we are as a people than how we face good times?
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Old April 7 2009, 08:01 PM   #143
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Jefferies wrote: View Post
The destruction of one of the founding worlds that made that utopia happen somehow doesn't make sense.
Oh, I see - this version is less "utopian" than TOS because Vulcan lives are more important than all the people living on those planets that Nomad wiped out (remember, that episode that ended in the characters joking around on the bridge, as usual).

How noble and optimistic.
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Old April 7 2009, 08:02 PM   #144
Jessop
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Jefferies wrote: View Post
urbandk wrote: View Post
Jefferies wrote: View Post
So that's it? They destroy Vulcan for good??? Is this a frakking joke??? So no more Vulcan in any future incarnations of "Star Trek"? This is the most ludicrous, rdiculous thing I have ever heard them do! Where on earth is the hope and humanity in that as Abrams keeps espousing? That must be billions dead! And don't give me this alternate universe crap with how it's all bright and dandy in the real Star Trek universe. Why is everyone so gang ho on watching an alternate universe anyway? If you hate Star Trek that much go and watch another show! For Christ's sake.

watch the movie for yourself.
I am sorry to say this, but if this is the type of thing this movie is about then I do not see myself watching it. This is meant to be a utopian future, not some type of armageddon endtime story.
No it is not 'meant to be a utopian future'- Star Trek has never been that. Sure, it portrays a humanity which is unified, striving to better itself and find a place in the galaxy but it's not some hippy la la land where nothing bad ever happens. The truth is, bad things do happen. Things beyond our control do happen. Part of our humanity is how we deal with them, how it shapes our lives, how we treat those affected. You sound like you want some perfect world where nothing bad ever happens, might as well have everyone doped up on drugs in holodecks.
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Old April 7 2009, 08:05 PM   #145
Jefferies
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Starship Polaris wrote: View Post
Jefferies wrote: View Post
This is meant to be a utopian future, not some type of armageddon endtime story.
Have you ever counted up the billions of intelligent creatures - entire planets - that were wiped out in the episodes of TOS?

Now, was that acceptably "utopian" just because they were people you didn't see, on worlds you had no investment in? Pretty shallow ground in which to stake your argument that this movie somehow violates the optimistic spirit of Star Trek.
My point isn't that there can't be tragedy on Star Trek, but that this type of tragedy is so colossal and close to home, that it will destroy the positive and utopian outlook of the Federation.
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Old April 7 2009, 08:08 PM   #146
M
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

MUST. STOP. CLICKING. ON. THIS. THREAD.

Do I understand it correctly that the mods have to read this thread? If so I don't envy them.
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Old April 7 2009, 08:14 PM   #147
Jefferies
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

urbandk wrote: View Post
Jefferies wrote: View Post
urbandk wrote: View Post

it is a utopian future, but it is our future. bad things have certainly happened in star trek land before, need i remind you.
The destruction of one of the founding worlds that made that utopia happen somehow doesn't make sense. They could have blown up Earth in stead, as far as the Federation is concerned the difference would have been negligible. This is not utopian and if it were realistic in any fashion it would cast a very dark cloud of doom over the Federation for a long long time. Just imagine if the state of New York were entirely wiped out by terrorists. I doubt America would recovery from that any time soon, and nor would there world as there would be hell to pay I'm sure.
it is a big deal. but isn't how we face tragedy more a test of who we are as a people than how we face good times?
That is naive and totally simplistic. An extreme disaster like that will not let any people, regardless of how advanced they are just continue as if nothing happened. Dispair and grief seem much more likely and I doubt that was the future Roddenberry had in mind. Star Trek was about a future where we live in safty, where there are no WMDs to scare us shitless any more. That was one of the big morale points of the show - humanity having overcome the Cold War and all those types of conflicts not just with themselves but with a larger community of intelligent beings. This movie seems to make a mockery of that vision.
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Old April 7 2009, 08:15 PM   #148
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Jefferies wrote: View Post
My point isn't that there can't be tragedy on Star Trek, but that this type of tragedy is so colossal and close to home, that it will destroy the positive and utopian outlook of the Federation.
No it won't.

Hell, my country is recovering from something that was tragic and awful and quite a shock to us - "this changes everything," everyone here told one another in 2001. What's remarkable, eight years later, is how little Americans have changed and how optimistic we remain.

(Oh, and Earth's optimism seems to have weathered the Xindi attack as well. )
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Old April 7 2009, 08:19 PM   #149
Jefferies
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Starship Polaris wrote: View Post
Jefferies wrote: View Post
My point isn't that there can't be tragedy on Star Trek, but that this type of tragedy is so colossal and close to home, that it will destroy the positive and utopian outlook of the Federation.
No it won't.

Hell, my country is recovering from something that was tragic and awful and quite a shock to us - "this changes everything," everyone here told one another in 2001. What's remarkable, eight years later, is how little Americans have changed and how optimistic we remain.

(Oh, and Earth's optimism seems to have weathered the Xindi attack as well. )
The collapse of two buildings compares to the destruction of a large and ancient civilization how exactly? A comparable disaster (scaled down to earth proportions) would have been the nuclear carpet bombing of an entire state with a large population. I doubt America would be settling any time soon after an attack like that.
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Old April 7 2009, 08:23 PM   #150
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

And Really we have had several planetary sized disasters from the Doomsday Machine destroying full planets, to Nomad, to the damned space aomeba (sp). And just because the planet is destroyed doesn't mean that the Vulcan's people are all destroyed or their importance to the Federation.
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