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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > TV & Media > Lost

Lost We're not the only forum on this board, and we all know it!

View Poll Results: Grade the episode...
Excellent 20 31.25%
Above Average 29 45.31%
Average 11 17.19%
Below Average 3 4.69%
Poor 1 1.56%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old April 3 2009, 02:50 PM   #76
Mr Awe
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Re: Lost 5x11: "Whatever Happened, Happened"

The Habs Fan wrote: View Post
Campe98 wrote: View Post
The Habs Fan wrote: View Post
Average

This episode was filler. Entertaining filler, but filler nonetheless.
Filler? We find out why Ben is the way he is, clear up what happened to Aron, actually move Kate's character in an interesting direction and give her an actual purpose and resolve an important character point from last season's finale and you call that filler?

Definitely a high Above Average on the Lost scale, but if it was the "Everything else" scale, it would be Excellent.
An important character point? What a big twist giving Aaron to his grandmother was! Who didn't see that one coming? Anyone?

Ok...who didn't see Ben getting saved by The Others? *crickets*

This episode was so obvious it was boring. I did however like the time travel discussion between Hurley and Miles and we got some good character stuff for Kate (although she is still as dumb as ever).
I agree with this sentiment, although I still found the episode enjoyable. As I stated in my review, I was actually hoping that young Ben would die just to throw a monkey wrench into the works. A twist would've made it interesting. Instead, we got the obvious and all the drama leading up to it only produce the expected result. The result that they actually spent a lot time belaboring had to happen, actually did happen. Ok.

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Old April 3 2009, 03:48 PM   #77
exodus
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Re: Lost 5x11: "Whatever Happened, Happened"

roliver wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
If Jack had helped young Ben, he wouldn't have gone to the Others to become who he is today.
Not necessarily. If Jack had agreed to helped with Ben then the timeline would have self-corrected and events would have still played out more or less the same.

Example: Jack agrees to help, but on the way to the infirmary he trips on a rock, smacks his head on (insert random object) and is knocked unconscious for a long period of time. Events play out the same as if he had not agreed to help.

Not the best example, but you get the point. Jack is not to blame. Sayid is not to blame. Whatever happened, happened.
So why doesn't Desmond remember Fairaday?
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Old April 3 2009, 05:15 PM   #78
Mallet
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Re: Lost 5x11: "Whatever Happened, Happened"

exodus wrote: View Post
roliver wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
If Jack had helped young Ben, he wouldn't have gone to the Others to become who he is today.
Not necessarily. If Jack had agreed to helped with Ben then the timeline would have self-corrected and events would have still played out more or less the same.

Example: Jack agrees to help, but on the way to the infirmary he trips on a rock, smacks his head on (insert random object) and is knocked unconscious for a long period of time. Events play out the same as if he had not agreed to help.

Not the best example, but you get the point. Jack is not to blame. Sayid is not to blame. Whatever happened, happened.
So why doesn't Desmond remember Fairaday?
Because the writers didn't know that they were going to meet up back in time when they first wrote scenes with those characters. Just like they didn't know when Sayid & Ben first met that they would eventually have Sayid shoot Young Ben. That is why we are getting all of this forced explanations that "Desmond thought it was a dream" and "The process to save Young Ben will make him forget being shot", yadayadayada.

Since these specifics wern't worked out exactly 2+ years ago, and since their style of time travel is "you can't change anything" then we will keep getting situations where they will make/force people not to remember events that they should remember. It's just the nature of writing a long running seriaized tv series.

I mean, maybe they knew back in season two & three that in season 5 some of the main characters would be back in time in the 1970's dealing with Dharma. And maybe (and this is a big maybe) they even had the idea tat someone would shoot Young Ben... but for all we know it was going to be Mr. Eko or Ana-Lucia that they had planed to pull the trigger and then when those actors had to suddenly be written off of the show they had to change their plans. Now Sayid is the shooter and since they wern't planning on that, that's why they have to make sure that it Ben doesn't remember who shot him by having the "process" erase his memory. It's the only way to tie up those loose ends.

But I still doubt they had this fully planned out back then. They probably had a general idea of what was going to happen, but no specifics since at that time they didn't even know how long the series was going to go on for (7 seasons with 24 eps. each? 8 seasons?) they didn't know. They also didn't know which actors would still be around by the time they got to telling this part of the story.
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Old April 3 2009, 06:24 PM   #79
gh4chiefs
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Re: Lost 5x11: "Whatever Happened, Happened"

LOL @ myself. It's so easy to get wrapped up in this stuff and to forget, "hey none of this is real." Very good post Mallet. I think you hit the nail squarely on the head.
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Old April 3 2009, 06:35 PM   #80
ITL
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Re: Lost 5x11: "Whatever Happened, Happened"

The show's creators always said that LOST was planned from beginning to end - but in a way that was flexible enough to adapt to new ideas and circumstances along the way without sacrificing the Big Plan.

Kinda neat.

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Old April 3 2009, 07:37 PM   #81
gh4chiefs
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Re: Lost 5x11: "Whatever Happened, Happened"

ITL wrote: View Post
The show's creators always said that LOST was planned from beginning to end - but in a way that was flexible enough to adapt to new ideas and circumstances along the way without sacrificing the Big Plan.

Kinda neat.

The thing is, for me anyway, I just I don't believe them. I'm kind of an asshole in that if you lie to me once, I'm very skeptical of everything you say from there on out. In their case, the "Oh this is not a sci-fi show, everything can be explained through normal science" bullshit line has made me VERY distrustful of anything they say.

They may very well be telling the truth about having it all planned out, but I find it hard to trust them.
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Old April 3 2009, 07:49 PM   #82
Gertch
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Re: Lost 5x11: "Whatever Happened, Happened"

gh4chiefs wrote: View Post
ITL wrote: View Post
The show's creators always said that LOST was planned from beginning to end - but in a way that was flexible enough to adapt to new ideas and circumstances along the way without sacrificing the Big Plan.

Kinda neat.

The thing is, for me anyway, I just I don't believe them. I'm kind of an asshole in that if you lie to me once, I'm very skeptical of everything you say from there on out. In their case, the "Oh this is not a sci-fi show, everything can be explained through normal science" bullshit line has made me VERY distrustful of anything they say.

They may very well be telling the truth about having it all planned out, but I find it hard to trust them.

Example of changing direction: Ben was only supposed to being in 2 or 3 episodes but because of the actor/character decided to give him a bigger part. I have no problem with that change because it probably made the journey so much better.

Example of future planning: The runway being cleared in S3 by Kate, Sawyer and others. It was used in S5 so that Ben's plane could land safely.
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Old April 3 2009, 07:51 PM   #83
ITL
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Re: Lost 5x11: "Whatever Happened, Happened"

gh4chiefs wrote: View Post
ITL wrote: View Post
The show's creators always said that LOST was planned from beginning to end - but in a way that was flexible enough to adapt to new ideas and circumstances along the way without sacrificing the Big Plan.

Kinda neat.

The thing is, for me anyway, I just I don't believe them. I'm kind of an asshole in that if you lie to me once, I'm very skeptical of everything you say from there on out. In their case, the "Oh this is not a sci-fi show, everything can be explained through normal science" bullshit line has made me VERY distrustful of anything they say.

They may very well be telling the truth about having it all planned out, but I find it hard to trust them.
The problem as I see it is that IMO the plan was to initially make us think LOST was a standard - if a bit strange - drama, and over time move into the sci-fi arena. So to the creators, it always was a sci-fi show. But one that kept it's powder dry on that front for a while.

But the fans very quickly ('cos we're clever like that!) sussed out that LOST was indeed a sci-fi show - so what could the creators do when confronted? If they admitted it, then we'd have said "Alrighty then! Give us the big sci and indeed fi! And do it now!". But LOST is a slow-burn concept that needed to take it's time to get round to the juicy sci-fi. So they said "Nope! No sci-fi here!". They had to.

That's my take on it, anyway.
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Old April 3 2009, 08:09 PM   #84
TheArsenal
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Re: Lost 5x11: "Whatever Happened, Happened"

ITL wrote: View Post
The show's creators always said that LOST was planned from beginning to end - but in a way that was flexible enough to adapt to new ideas and circumstances along the way without sacrificing the Big Plan.
I'll buy into they've always known more or less where they were going, but had little idea of how they were going to get there. But now that there is a definitive end point, I'd say the path to the end point is probably pretty clear. Now the hard part is making it mesh up with everything that's come before.
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Old April 3 2009, 10:13 PM   #85
Mr Light
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Location: Pennsylvania
Re: Lost 5x11: "Whatever Happened, Happened"

As I understand it, by the time they were into S2 they knew exactly what would happen all the way through. The only big diff has been actor changes; people leaving the show (for drinking? heh) or upgrading the role of Ben. It's not a huge change to the story though. All that changed was that Henry Gale was going to be offed in a few episodes, then in S3 when they're captured they would have been introduced to the leader of the Others played by a diff actor with the same character/backstory. They knew they were gonna be SF the entire time but they couldn't say that or the audience would dwindle from 23 million to 9 million, which is exactly what's happened this season. That's why they discover Adam and Eve in the cave at the beginning, as future proof that they knew what they were doing all along.
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Old April 4 2009, 03:35 AM   #86
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Lost 5x11: "Whatever Happened, Happened"

Above Average. Nice episode for Kate (for a change).

The scene where Sawyer and Kate turn lil Ben over to Richard despite the warning was creeeepy as hell...

But I don't think the writers needed to give lil Ben amnesia. I don't recall any point at which he "should" have revealed he already knew the Losties. It would have given him more power over them not to reveal that, and he always had that "I know more than you do" aura about him.

But it seems like Jack's indifference to helping Ben is what created Evil Ben.
If Jack saved lil Ben, something else would have made him evil. Jack's speech to Juliet about the island doing what the frak the island wants to do says to me that he's starting to grasp the "rules."
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Old April 4 2009, 04:46 AM   #87
McCoy
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Re: Lost 5x11: "Whatever Happened, Happened"

Agreed, I think they could have got away with Ben eventually revealing that he did indeed remember them all. Much more interesting that way.
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Old April 4 2009, 01:07 PM   #88
zengoth
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Re: Lost 5x11: "Whatever Happened, Happened"

Did I miss it?
Between Juliet delivering Ethan and her trying out her hand at bullet-extraction surgery - when did Juliet explain to the Dharma-hippies that she had more than just auto mechanical skillz?
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Old April 4 2009, 03:31 PM   #89
Mr Light
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Re: Lost 5x11: "Whatever Happened, Happened"

That threw me as well. I guess once she delivered the baby they figured she could be the backup medic. Of course she's been living there for three years so I imagine they've already had a situation where she had to use her medical skills.
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Old April 4 2009, 06:26 PM   #90
Mallet
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Re: Lost 5x11: "Whatever Happened, Happened"

It's only been a couple of days and the doctor isn't due back from the Looking Glass station for another week or so. So Juliet is all they have.
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