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Old March 31 2009, 08:29 PM   #136
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Re: Cobra Commander revealed (SPOILERS)

Janus VI wrote: View Post

The idea behind CC Comic book origins I think work much better. His character was defined by the growing dissillusionment felt in the 70's by the Vietnam war and Government actions. I always interpreted him as Everyman gone down the wrong path and being irrevocably corrupt.
Out of curiosity, having never read the comics, how did they handle CC's personality? That's one area the cartoon could have done better, since he was mostly a one-dimensional villain who usually failed. Characters like Destro and the twins were more cunning and less arrogant, and thus more capable of achieving victory.
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Old March 31 2009, 08:35 PM   #137
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Re: Cobra Commander revealed (SPOILERS)

Plecostomus wrote: View Post
Captain Craig wrote: View Post
hyzmarca wrote: View Post
I think that Cobra-La would have worked better if it was called something else, and if it wasn't connected to Cobra. The used car salesman origin for Cobra Commander isn't much better, but I think that Cobra works better as a ruthless terrorist organization than it does as an ancient conspiracy.
Seriously, there was an alternate origin where CC had been a prior used car salesman?!
The comics.

Frankly if some nobody in the middle east can whip people into a frenzy to the point where they are blowing up sky-scrapers and attacking Government buildings in the USA and masterminding terrorist attacks around the world then a used car salesman isn't that much of a stretch.

Frankly if you own a used-car-lot you already know how to contact people to get stuff... Cars... parts... repairmen... You know where to order stuff how to organize people...

It's not that much of a stretch that this business-savvy-but-down-on-the-world dude decides to buy an ex-military vehicle and pimp it... hire some thugs... His buddy at the Electronics Factory catches wind and smuggles out a few prototypes.... Word spreads about this dude and his manifesto... more followers join money comes in... and it builds from there.


*shrug* Its plausible provided the system fails to notice what's going on until the terror-org has built up a large force. Kind of like how we let home-grown nutcases build up huge arms stashes THEN raid them.
That's what I also liked about the used car salesmen origin: The fact that it was the guy with nothing left to lose, so he's going to set the world on fire to watch it burn.
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Old March 31 2009, 09:21 PM   #138
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Re: Cobra Commander revealed (SPOILERS)

Unicron wrote: View Post
Janus VI wrote: View Post

The idea behind CC Comic book origins I think work much better. His character was defined by the growing dissillusionment felt in the 70's by the Vietnam war and Government actions. I always interpreted him as Everyman gone down the wrong path and being irrevocably corrupt.
Out of curiosity, having never read the comics, how did they handle CC's personality? That's one area the cartoon could have done better, since he was mostly a one-dimensional villain who usually failed. Characters like Destro and the twins were more cunning and less arrogant, and thus more capable of achieving victory.
Nice thing about the comics. In the cartoon, its like the Harlem Globetrotters vs. their shill team. The fix was in. GIJOE would always win, and since its a series of half hour shows for kids, COBRA's plots in general could never be all that complex, and that could only work if the grand chief looked like a buffoon (Thanks in part to Chris Latta's great voice performance).

There was no such fix in the comics, so CC had to actually look like he knew what he was doing, whether COBRA won or not, and they often did win. The only reason Cobra Island exists is because Cobra created it, then got it recognized as a country and kept the Joes from pushing them off it beforehand. And even though Cobra often lost ad hoc battles, the schemes that kept the organization going - pyramid schemes, arms sales, political intrigue - for the most part went on unchecked. All this is mainly CC's doing. In the comics, Destro, Zartan and the Twins were competitors as often as they were Cobra officers. Only the Baroness was fiercely loyal.
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Old March 31 2009, 09:38 PM   #139
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Re: Cobra Commander revealed (SPOILERS)

Admiral2 wrote: View Post
There was no such fix in the comics, so CC had to actually look like he knew what he was doing, whether COBRA won or not, and they often did win. The only reason Cobra Island exists is because Cobra created it, then got it recognized as a country and kept the Joes from pushing them off it beforehand.
Actually a handful of Joes kicked Cobra's asses, it was only the last minute legal recognition that allowed Cobra to own the island. So, Cobra's fighting bought just enough time...barely.

And even though Cobra often lost ad hoc battles, the schemes that kept the organization going - pyramid schemes, arms sales, political intrigue - for the most part went on unchecked. All this is mainly CC's doing.
True, the comic book Cobra Commander was a crafty CEO and a decent strategist. Tactically speaking, on the actual battlefield, he wasn't much more competent than cartoon counterpart. In the first battle of Cobra island he takes to the field himself and gets trashed. Most of his personally led missions were flops. His attack on an airfield was a minor disaster. He was buried alive in the ruins of the Pit. His later attack on the Pit II was a failure (he claimed it was a test for new radar jammers...).

In the comics, Destro, Zartan and the Twins were competitors as often as they were Cobra officers. Only the Baroness was fiercely loyal.
No, actually she and Major Bludd tried to have C.C. assassinated using the Commander's own son, Billy, as the gunman. She later wholly quit Cobra to live with Destro, only to brainwashed back into Cobra service (when the comic got worse).

The Twins' loyalties were more ambiguous. After Cobra Commander was presumed dead, they served Serpentor, even in the Cobra Civil War, but the Cobra Commander Serpentor fought was an imposter...which they surely knew (because Serpentor did). Later, they were spared from the purge when the real Commander returned.

Major Bludd was not like the cartoon version at all. In the comics he was mostly a hitman. In the toons he was little more than a named field officer.

I know far too much about GI JOE.
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Old March 31 2009, 09:44 PM   #140
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Re: Cobra Commander revealed (SPOILERS)

God Magnus wrote: View Post
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Seriously, though, I loved the Movie. It went all-out into weirdsville--in that respect like Transformers: The Movie (you know, the real one). It wasn't as successful in execution as that movie--nor quite as courageous, for that matter, as Duke lives when Optimus Prime dies--but both take the WTFotron straight to 11.
I love the flick. It's fun and wacky. And I have to say it has one of the nicest updates of a TV theme song and opening sequence of any movie I've seen since. The whole battle at the Statue of Liberty is just wonderfully done.

What I also love is how similar the plots for both movies are. Both involve "new recruits" and a greater element being added to the Joe conflict. They also have big bads who are partly big balls.
I love the part where Lieutenant Falcon opens the Matrix of Leadership.

darkwing_duck1 wrote:
Duke lived BECAUSE Prime died. They didn't want to go through the firestorm again so they rewrote and revoiced it so he lived.
Really? Oh well, what might've been.

As for CC being a used car salesman, you could just as easily say that Hitler was a failed artist, Stalin was a passionate seminary student, and bin Laden was a bored construction worker.
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Old March 31 2009, 09:47 PM   #141
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Re: Cobra Commander revealed (SPOILERS)

Capt_Piett wrote: View Post
Agreed Vonstadt; if a fan can make a convincing Cobra Commander costume true to the comics; why couldn't a director with millions in the budget do it? If the Hooded Commander was too offensive to his taste; what was wrong with Mask Commander?

Just a dumb visual; like Deadpool in the Wolverine movie, at least from what we've seen so far.
Exactly my point, with the right minimal budget we could've had a GREAT Masked Cobra Commander. What we are about to get is the director taking creative license waaaay too far.

It ruins the core source material, visually. Not to mention now anyone who sees what this fan could do...show how the movie concept of CC is just pathetic.

As well as the KKK hood excuse, I mean Jeez god forbid that he draw any type of villainous connection with his hood. Cobra was the worse of Terrorist organizations and Nazi/Facism...and he was worried about a KKK connection??

I mean ..huh???

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Old March 31 2009, 09:54 PM   #142
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Re: Cobra Commander revealed (SPOILERS)

I think that sums it up nicely MeanJoePhaser; though I would add the closest similarities with the Comic and Cartoon CC was that they both suffered from extreme paranoia. the cartoons version was of course over the top and usually caused his schemes to fall apart, but in a few cases the comic versions paranoia actually served him well (e.g. the Fred series of Seigee's).
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Old March 31 2009, 11:26 PM   #143
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Re: Cobra Commander revealed (SPOILERS)

Okay, so I guess what i'm trying to say is that comic CC isn't the moustache twirling, tie-the-damsel-to-the-track type villain that cartoon CC is by design. In answer to Unicron's question, comic CC did show more depth of character, especially where Billy was concerned, as in after the assassination attempt MJP mentioned, when CC had to be goaded into using the brain-wave scanner on him, or after he escaped from the Pit, when he found out Billy was in the hospital. When writing the comic, Larry Hama tried to make all the characters three dimensional.
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Old April 1 2009, 12:09 AM   #144
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Re: Cobra Commander revealed (SPOILERS)

I don't feel like digging through my comics to find that issue but I think when CC decided to use the Brain wave scanner on Billy his concern was that it might potentially reveal vital information about Cobra and CC's former life and identity, not so much concerned about the harm it may cause his son (not to say he wasn't concerned). but I may be misremembering that. MeanJoePaser this is were your knowledge can help out lol.
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Old April 1 2009, 12:33 AM   #145
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Re: Cobra Commander revealed (SPOILERS)

Janus VI wrote: View Post
I don't feel like digging through my comics to find that issue but I think when CC decided to use the Brain wave scanner on Billy his concern was that it might potentially reveal vital information about Cobra and CC's former life and identity, not so much concerned about the harm it may cause his son (not to say he wasn't concerned). but I may be misremembering that. MeanJoePaser this is were your knowledge can help out lol.
It could be a little of both. He only expressed that concern about information after Billy was strapped in. If that were his main concern, I would think that he would have argued that at the outset, and used it as an excuse to not put him on at all.

But I could be wrong. have been before...
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Old April 1 2009, 12:47 AM   #146
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Re: Cobra Commander revealed (SPOILERS)

Oh I love it. Neither of us are interested in arguing our points. Particularly something that may or may not occurred in a couple of panels in a comic published about 25 years ago. We probably should be careful or someone may revoke our geek license.
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Old April 1 2009, 01:36 AM   #147
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Re: Cobra Commander revealed (SPOILERS)

I have that comic issue in question. Zartan suggests using the brainwave scanner (which he heard about from the criminal underground), and someone (probably the Baroness) says it may harm the Commander's son. It's Cobra Commander himself who says that person in question being his son is irrelevant. Cobra Commander stops the process when Billy blocks out the identities of his handlers (Baroness and Bludd) and focuses on older memories of his the origins of Cobra.

This leads to Storm Shadow quitting Cobra, because he admires Billy's character for refusing to betray the plotters who abandoned him. He rescues Billy and they flee Springfield. (I don't recall the assassination attempt being mentioned again, though Bludd seems to disappear from the comic for a few years.)

The cartoon C.C. had some good moments, but like the show itself, was inconsistently written. I like the Cobra T.V. episode (which had some great satire) where Cobra Commander changes the ending of KING KONG, so that the ape destroys the planes and wins. Instead of "Beauty killed the beast" the guy says "You can never win if your enemy is bigger and stronger than you!"

To the cartoon producers' credits, in the second season they tried to make the show less GI JOE ALWAYS WINS...they had the USS Flagg carrier sunk (later raised, though) and had some not so happy endings, like meeting war orphaned "dust children" in southeast asia. But you know there was a lot of restrictions on animation in the day. GI JOE was considered violent at the time. On older network shows (GI JOE was syndicated), like the Super Friends, the heroes were not allowed to punch anyone!
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Old April 1 2009, 02:10 AM   #148
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Re: Cobra Commander revealed (SPOILERS)

Of the toon, I think "Sink the Montana" is still my favorite episode. Just for the fact that, for a kid's show, it's a pretty serious episode. The whole Navy admiral that gives up everything to save his old ship angle.]
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Old April 1 2009, 04:01 AM   #149
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Re: Cobra Commander revealed (SPOILERS)

MeanJoePhaser wrote: View Post
I have that comic issue in question. Zartan suggests using the brainwave scanner (which he heard about from the criminal underground), and someone (probably the Baroness) says it may harm the Commander's son. It's Cobra Commander himself who says that person in question being his son is irrelevant. Cobra Commander stops the process when Billy blocks out the identities of his handlers (Baroness and Bludd) and focuses on older memories of his the origins of Cobra.

This leads to Storm Shadow quitting Cobra, because he admires Billy's character for refusing to betray the plotters who abandoned him. He rescues Billy and they flee Springfield. (I don't recall the assassination attempt being mentioned again, though Bludd seems to disappear from the comic for a few years.)
Maybe you could clear this up for me: was CC at that point the "impostor" CC (a "Fred" who had shot the real CC way back when Billy was in a coma and CC was talking about throwing in the towel), or the real one post his "resurrection"?
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Old April 1 2009, 04:05 AM   #150
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Re: Cobra Commander revealed (SPOILERS)

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Of the toon, I think "Sink the Montana" is still my favorite episode. Just for the fact that, for a kid's show, it's a pretty serious episode. The whole Navy admiral that gives up everything to save his old ship angle.]
The G1 Transformers series had an unexpectedly serious ep too. It was the ep where Beachcomber found a pool of some sort of "supermetal" that when a TF was coated in it made them invulnerable (for a time).

Cue the inevitable Autobot/Decepticon brawl, and in the aftermath while all the other Autobots are celebrating, 'Comber is looking around the area (formerly a beautiful little hidden glade) all torn up and blasted to shreds and says "Yeah...we won..."
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