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Old March 30 2009, 02:41 PM   #451
neogothboy74
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I've been away and the reviews have gone on without me. lol. Um...let's see.

Tattoo (**) was mostly lame, and made me giggle and groan a lot.

Cold Fire (***) reeked of potential, but was missing something - I did like that they didn't wait for the finale to find the Caretaker's mate - though calling her Suspiria annoyed me. I thought the story should have been followed up on at a later point, but it doesn't overly irk me that it wasn't.

Maneuvers (****) was great. I loved the return of Seska and her manipulation of the Kazon and the Voyager crew. I probably would have been less impressed, but this was the first Kazon story I'd enjoyed since 'State of Flux'. Plus female Cardassians are frakking creepy looking, so Seska came back looking a lot like the possessed girl from the Exorcist.

Resistance (****) was Janeway Gold. I do remember however that the UPN promo for this episode made it look like it was all about Janeway being a hooker. Those old UPN promos did not do this series any favors. Joel Grey's performance breaks my heart every time!

Prototype (**) was ok. Not much to say about it really. Though the production design for the androids or whatever they were was lame. Actually, this feels slightly sub-par in retrospect.

Alliances (***) also ok. It has moments I really like, and other moments that I hate. I like that the crew tries to do things differently. And I hate that Janeway cries foul at the end when it doesn't work out - I found that really annoying. And the attempt at deepening the Kazon that failed so miserably in 'Initiations' works a lot better here (even if they should have left the Kazon behind by now).

Threshhold (*) is shit. It's science was bad and made no sense. It was bad when it was ripping off 'The Fly' and then it just got worse...and worse... I don't do 'no stars' or 'negative stars'. So 1 star it is.

Meld (**) I don't like this episode. It's not that it's bad, because it's not, and it's actually a pretty cool story...it's the casting I have a problem with. When this episode aired the guy that played Suder (Brad Dourif) had already played weird pschos in multiple venues (including Dune, The X-Files, The Exorcist III, & the Child's Play movies - just to name a few) and I just found it hard to take him seriously as a result. He's cool. He is. But his performance lost something for me when I realized I'd seen it several times before. And his character is at the center of everything - so I accpet that others probably get a lot more out of this than me - though I did like the pay off for the character later in the season - when he wasn't central. This one just...I don't enjoy it.

Dreadnought (****) I like this one a lot. The Cardassian design. The Torres vs. Torres storyline. I like it. A lot. It's kind of cheesy, but I'm ok with that.

And finally...

Death Wish (*****) this is my favorite ever Q episode. I don't care for his other 2 appearances on Voyager, or his appearance on DS9 - I loathe 'Encounter at Farpoint', 'Hide & Q', & 'True Q'. I think 'Q Who?', 'Q-Pid' & 'All Good Things...' are ok (Q-Pid being the lesser of the 3). I enjoy 'Deja Q' & 'Tapesty' a great deal. But this one is my favorite. I like the message. I like the guest actor (who I recognized right away as a guest star from China Beach, which starred Robert Picardo as a different doctor). I love the continuity (can't say that often on this series). I love Janeway in this episode. And I love Q, which seldom if ever happens. So, I like this one a lot.

All caught up now I think.
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Old March 30 2009, 07:32 PM   #452
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

^ Here's another for you.

Lifesigns (***)

I had seen bits and pieces of this episode in the past but I don't think I ever saw it from beginning to end. It is one of only a handful of episodes of Trek which I have never fully seen before, I think that Resolutions and Real Life are the only two others.

The episode moved a bit slowly for my tastes, although the writing is good and I believed the chemistry between the Doctor and Pel. Picardo had me laughing out loud during the scene where he reveals to Pel that he is in love with her, great timing on his part. I didn't like the ending so much, I really hated that final scene because it was played as if this was the first time the Doctor had seen Pel since she went back into her own body, but he is the one who performed the procedure! Of course he knows what she looks like, he was probably talking to her in sickbay 20 minutes ago. Also, you don't see a goodbye scene between them. Maybe it wasn't needed, maybe we've seen similar goodbyes too many times in the past, but I wasn't satisfied by them just dancing at the end.

Also, what happened with his new name? Shmullus wasn't a great name, but we never hear it again, not even Pel calls him it again after their first date.

Then there is the Paris story which I know plays into next week's episode. The problem I have with this Paris insubordinate arc is that I know he is only pretending as part of a ruse planned by Tuvok and Janeway, I would have much preferred if this had been happening for real.
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Old March 30 2009, 07:58 PM   #453
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Agreed regarding 'Lifesigns,' GodBen.

Good story, enjoyable, but a bit oddly paced at times, and you're particularly spot-on in regard to the ending. It was bittersweet, but felt just a tiny bit off. I've often thought that this episode, a lot like 'Death Wish' but to a lesser, more subtle extent, seemed to verge on being a 'very special episode' by addressing the issue of love versus appearance. I'm not sure if the writers had a specific 'message' to get across here, though. Kudos nonetheless for addressing a socially-relevant issue in a sci-fi medium.

GodBen wrote: View Post
Also, what happened with his new name? Shmullus wasn't a great name, but we never hear it again, not even Pel calls him it again after their first date.
Maybe his full name in the 'Endgame' future is 'Joe Shmullus'?

Seriously, it seemed rude of him to apparently completely ignore a name given him by a woman he loved. Perhaps it was too painful, because it made him think of her? More likely, continuity ball dropping.

Then there is the Paris story which I know plays into next week's episode. The problem I have with this Paris insubordinate arc is that I know he is only pretending as part of a ruse planned by Tuvok and Janeway, I would have much preferred if this had been happening for real.
I agree again, actually. (How long til I get another keyring? )

I wonder if anyone actually thought Tom would leave? I was, what, 11, at the time this episode aired, and knew that he wasn't going anywhere. I don't recall whether I realized that it was a ruse, but I was sure he wasn't going anywhere. It would, therefore, have been interesting if not only was it genuine but they had displayed the courage to have him actually leave for a while, or end up in the brig for a few episodes.
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Old March 30 2009, 08:09 PM   #454
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Brit wrote: View Post
I'm not confused, I've spent a lot of time learning the difference between plot driven and character driven. You are confusing character developement as character driven and they are two very different things.

Brit
Well, if characters don't grow and change, a character-driven show will get mighty boring, with the characters going over the same issues again and again.
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Old March 30 2009, 08:23 PM   #455
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Praetor wrote: View Post
Seriously, it seemed rude of him to apparently completely ignore a name given him by a woman he loved. Perhaps it was too painful, because it made him think of her?
I thought that myself and then I remembered why I thought it; that is exactly what happened with Freya in Heroes and Demons. This guy really needs to stop associating his name with the women he has been with.


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I'm afraid I only made one. I have a Bart Simpson keyring here if you want it.
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Old March 30 2009, 08:32 PM   #456
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
Also, what happened with his new name? Shmullus wasn't a great name, but we never hear it again, not even Pel calls him it again after their first date.
You'll hear the name again later this season.
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Old March 30 2009, 10:39 PM   #457
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

neogothboy74 wrote: View Post
Those old UPN promos did not do this series any favors.
Just WAIT until we reach the fourth season and beyond - it's tragically hilarious when I read descriptions of them from Jammer's reviews. 'Counterpoint' is advertised as 'sleeping with the enemy' and I mean in the non-metaphorical terms.
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Old March 30 2009, 10:45 PM   #458
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

DGCatAniSiri wrote: View Post
neogothboy74 wrote: View Post
Those old UPN promos did not do this series any favors.
Just WAIT until we reach the fourth season and beyond - it's tragically hilarious when I read descriptions of them from Jammer's reviews. 'Counterpoint' is advertised as 'sleeping with the enemy' and I mean in the non-metaphorical terms.
Yeah... I remember those. I recorded seasons 4-7 on VHS as I watched. And boy howdy...
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Old March 30 2009, 11:32 PM   #459
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
^ Here's another for you.

Lifesigns (***)

Also, what happened with his new name? Shmullus wasn't a great name, but we never hear it again, not even Pel calls him it again after their first date.

Then there is the Paris story which I know plays into next week's episode. The problem I have with this Paris insubordinate arc is that I know he is only pretending as part of a ruse planned by Tuvok and Janeway, I would have much preferred if this had been happening for real.
I liked the episode a great deal. I thought it yet another great use of the Vidians, a race that I felt Voyager got just right, and didn't press into stories that didn't really need them. I loved the continuity from 'Faces', with the scene where B'Elanna is confronted in sickbay. The minor recurring plot with Tom annoyed me when it first aired, but looking back I could see they were trying out continuing plot threads, which they just got wrong on their first attempt, and then decided to never try again for a very long time - which is a shame. I think it would be less annoying if I was someone that watched Voyager on DVD in a marathon session, but seeing it one episode at a time, that plot felt really odd. And as noted above (and I loved this about the episode too) the name Shmullus does indeed return later in the season as a really great continuity point. I agree that they should have had a goodbye scene, but I think they just ran out of time is all - and the important thing to see was that the Doctor really didn't care about the way she looked - and the dance played that out nicely, with it's sad music giving just the right touch for the doomed romance. I also figured he gave up the name based on the character's not liking it based on a sad memory, but I think the series and the character would have been better served if he'd kept the name in honor of her - which is more moving, seems more adult, and also would have jettisoned the long running, and incredibly lame Doctor Name Plot - it was cute in the first 2 seasons but then it stopped being fun, and it was never clever.
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Old March 31 2009, 12:13 AM   #460
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

neogothboy74 wrote: View Post
...and the important thing to see was that the Doctor really didn't care about the way she looked...
I don't wish to sound like I'm being negative because that is a beautiful sentiment, but my problem is that anyone who has truly been in love knows this to be true. For that reason the episode just didn't connect for me at the end because it seemed like such an obvious thing that it didn't need to be stated. It was a lovely scene, I just wish it was more.
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Old March 31 2009, 12:38 AM   #461
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
neogothboy74 wrote: View Post
...and the important thing to see was that the Doctor really didn't care about the way she looked...
my problem is that anyone who has truly been in love knows this to be true.
Of course they have, but the point of the story is that she had not been in love before; she'd been affected by the Phage as a child and lived her life devoid of such things - so seeing her find that was touching for me, though I'd experienced such things before myself - I was experiencing that wonder again through her performance. And I imagine it must have been touching for those that had not experenced such things before as well. That's the way art works; isn't it?
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Old March 31 2009, 01:04 AM   #462
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

neogothboy74 wrote: View Post
Of course they have, but the point of the story is that she had not been in love before; she'd been affected by the Phage as a child and lived her life devoid of such things - so seeing her find that was touching for me, though I'd experienced such things before myself - I was experiencing that wonder again through her performance. And I imagine it must have been touching for those that had not experenced such things before as well. That's the way art works; isn't it?
It might have worked better for me had they not added in the faux-suspense of her trying to kill her body. I would have preferred it if she had just been mature and had a conversation with Shmullus about not wanting to go back to her body rather than taking matters into her own hands. I can understand why they did it, but it just didn't work well for me.
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Old March 31 2009, 01:56 AM   #463
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Tachyon wrote: View Post
Deathwish (***)
I would give the episode three stars too. Not my fav, but good.
I would have gone higher - this along with "Resistance" and "Meld" are my top episodes.

As for "Lifesigns" it's the best Trek love story ever.
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Old March 31 2009, 05:24 AM   #464
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I would have given Resistance * and Meld ****½. Lifesigns was just alright for me. It had its moments, but not my fav.
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Old March 31 2009, 08:04 AM   #465
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

"Lifesigns" is a good one. Some funny conversations between The Doctor, Denara Pel and Kes. Also nice to see that Denara Pel learned that The Doctor was more interested in her as a person than for her looks.

We also have the ongoing "Michael Jonas" arc which is excellent and the events in this episode leads up to the final in "Investigations".

I'll give the episode 3 points out of 5.
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