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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Battlestar Galactica & Caprica

Battlestar Galactica & Caprica This forum was created by man. It rebelled. It evolved. And it has a plan.

View Poll Results: Grade the episode...
Excellent 300 71.94%
Above Average 59 14.15%
Average 20 4.80%
Below Average 19 4.56%
Poor 19 4.56%
Voters: 417. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old March 25 2009, 02:01 AM   #586
Gregsmack
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Re: Battlestar Galactica Series Finale: "Daybreak, Part II"

^ To be fair, I voted excellent but still had some minor qualms with the NYC coda.

On that note, love the sig. Very moving scene. I personally think the episode and series should have ended on that image of Adama on the hill.
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Old March 25 2009, 02:08 AM   #587
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Re: Battlestar Galactica Series Finale: "Daybreak, Part II"

zekkie wrote: View Post
I'm gonna venture to say....you didn't get it.
Saying someone "didnt get it" because they dont hold the same opinion as you is one of the laziest and meaningless criticisms you can give.

I thought it was ok. There were a few parts I enjoed, quite a few parts I didnt care for.

I liked Baltar a lot in this episode for some reason.
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Old March 25 2009, 02:44 AM   #588
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Re: Was the ending realistic?

Gregsmack wrote: View Post
middyseafort wrote: View Post
They mutinied and bickered over equipment because, at the time, there was no hope, no planet to settle, and the prospect of spending their entire lives in those flying tin cans. Before that they had some hope and it was shattered by the discovery of Cylon Earth. Their dreams were torn asunder.

Moreover, the series has showed us that the Colonials have clung onto their lives Before the Fall. A few examples: establishing a Quorum; adhering to Colonial military traditions and laws; the jobs they held before the attacks, like the gardners and such on Cloud Nine; presidential elections and the presidency; Colonial designations such as Caprica, Tauron, etc.; and the hierarchy of that society.

And in the background, growing over the four years, this idea that things must change or "all of this has happened and will happen again." For example: Zarek's ideas from the first season on how society has to be redefined and how it was impossible to maintain that lifestyle (he may have been an egotistical ass with delusions of martyrdom but he had a point); Lee's speech at Baltar's trial; the outlaw of abortion; the dangers of vocational inheritance in "Dirty Hands"; and Lee's notion that a new Quorum should be ship-based representation not colony-based.

Because of these examples that I've listed, I do believe that the Colonials once they had planetfall, and particularly this Eden, would be perfectly willing to abandon that which overly complicated their lives and destroyed their civilization. And that there would be a final epiphany... of letting go of their previous lives... the death of the Colonial way of life. And as in Baltar's speech to Cavil, stop the cycle at birth -- in this case, rebirth.

Granted, we didn't get the interstitial conversations and debates that no doubt took place between Lee's proposal in "Daybreak, II" and the acceptance by the fleet. Then again, it wasn't important to moving the story to show that. That it happened was the only thing that needed to be shown from a writerly stand-point, imao.

Excellent post. You've articulated it better than any other poster here that I've seen.
Thank you.
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Old March 25 2009, 02:53 AM   #589
WeAreTheBorg
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Re: Battlestar Galactica Series Finale: "Daybreak, Part II"

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: View Post
It's amazing how top-heavy the review poll is, considering how terrible and full of holes the finale was.
I voted excellent despite having some reservations. The reason was even with those faults, it was still amazing. There was more awesomness in this episode than in any before.

Think of it like going to a resort for 2 week vacation, with great weather and good fun, great service etc the whole time... except one day it was rainy, you got locked out of your room, got food poisoning and lost your shoes.

Still beats a week of your regular life.
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Old March 25 2009, 02:54 AM   #590
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Re: Was the ending realistic?

middyseafort wrote: View Post
Gregsmack wrote: View Post
middyseafort wrote: View Post
They mutinied and bickered over equipment because, at the time, there was no hope, no planet to settle, and the prospect of spending their entire lives in those flying tin cans. Before that they had some hope and it was shattered by the discovery of Cylon Earth. Their dreams were torn asunder.

Moreover, the series has showed us that the Colonials have clung onto their lives Before the Fall. A few examples: establishing a Quorum; adhering to Colonial military traditions and laws; the jobs they held before the attacks, like the gardners and such on Cloud Nine; presidential elections and the presidency; Colonial designations such as Caprica, Tauron, etc.; and the hierarchy of that society.

And in the background, growing over the four years, this idea that things must change or "all of this has happened and will happen again." For example: Zarek's ideas from the first season on how society has to be redefined and how it was impossible to maintain that lifestyle (he may have been an egotistical ass with delusions of martyrdom but he had a point); Lee's speech at Baltar's trial; the outlaw of abortion; the dangers of vocational inheritance in "Dirty Hands"; and Lee's notion that a new Quorum should be ship-based representation not colony-based.

Because of these examples that I've listed, I do believe that the Colonials once they had planetfall, and particularly this Eden, would be perfectly willing to abandon that which overly complicated their lives and destroyed their civilization. And that there would be a final epiphany... of letting go of their previous lives... the death of the Colonial way of life. And as in Baltar's speech to Cavil, stop the cycle at birth -- in this case, rebirth.

Granted, we didn't get the interstitial conversations and debates that no doubt took place between Lee's proposal in "Daybreak, II" and the acceptance by the fleet. Then again, it wasn't important to moving the story to show that. That it happened was the only thing that needed to be shown from a writerly stand-point, imao.

Excellent post. You've articulated it better than any other poster here that I've seen.
Thank you.
Well said.

Thinking about the ending a bit now, I feel really sad for Lee, all alone at the end. As one of my favourite characters I really hope he went on to have a good life and met someone special
I'm actually welling up thinking about it as I write this
Yeah, I do too. His father apparently doesn't want to see him anymore and Kara is gone. Although considering the fact that we learned he was going to sleep with his brother's girlfriend less than 12 hours after he met her while his brother was in the room, maybe he deserves to be alone on that front.

It's really a shame about Dee though. If she would have hung on a few more months, she would have had a new home and Lee to herself.
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Old March 25 2009, 03:04 AM   #591
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Re: Was the ending realistic?

Gregsmack wrote: View Post
But I do have to ask why you think a clean slate is not the right solution. I don't understand your reasoning whatsoever. Is there some precedent here you're referring to that the Colonials are tragically repeating? How did not it work? What didn't work? Obviously if NYC exists, there hasn't been another AI holocaust in 150,000 years -- a way better margin than the 2000 year intervals they had going there.
But those 2000 year intervals were periods of continuous culture with no known loss of technology (besides resurrection). Over those 150,000 years, we had to start everything from scratch.
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Old March 25 2009, 03:04 AM   #592
McCoy
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Re: Was the ending realistic?

The thing with Bill saying goodbye to Lee. I think Lee knew what Bill was going to do when Laura's time was near. Perhaps they had discussed it, or maybe Lee just knew his father.

Bill decided to fly until Laura died. When that happened, he would land wherever they were and build their cabin there. He didn't know how far he'd get, but knew it would be far enough that, after disassembling the raptor for parts, it was highly unlikely he'd ever see anyone again.

Or at least, that's what I got out of those scenes.
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Old March 25 2009, 03:29 AM   #593
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Re: Battlestar Galactica Series Finale: "Daybreak, Part II"

Lee can hook up with that lady doctor that appeared out of nowhere this season. Apparently she has a thing for men that look like Jamie Bamber.
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Old March 25 2009, 03:43 AM   #594
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Re: Battlestar Galactica Series Finale: "Daybreak, Part II"

She was also in Season Two.
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Old March 25 2009, 04:06 AM   #595
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Re: Battlestar Galactica Series Finale: "Daybreak, Part II"

Aragorn wrote: View Post
Lee can hook up with that lady doctor that appeared out of nowhere this season. Apparently she has a thing for men that look like Jamie Bamber.
She wasnt a doctor, she's a nurse/medic. She was the one who operated on Adama in Scattered and has been in the show ever since then.
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Old March 25 2009, 11:17 AM   #596
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Re: Battlestar Galactica Series Finale: "Daybreak, Part II"

Fabulous ending despite the occasionally dodgy CG Centurions. Nice refs to other SF though - laughed out loud at Cavill's quoting Grand Moff Tarkin ("I think you overestimate their chances!")

Hera can't be mitochondrial Eve though, if, as Head Six and Head Baltar suggest, she was still a little girl when she died.

OTOH, we know some of the Cylons (2, 8 and 6s) stayed, so maybe they eventually did manage to interbreed and the skeleton in the magazine was one of their offspring.
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Old March 25 2009, 11:39 AM   #597
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Re: Battlestar Galactica Series Finale: "Daybreak, Part II"

Lonemagpie wrote: View Post
Hera can't be mitochondrial Eve though, if, as Head Six and Head Baltar suggest, she was still a little girl when she died.

OTOH, we know some of the Cylons (2, 8 and 6s) stayed, so maybe they eventually did manage to interbreed and the skeleton in the magazine was one of their offspring.
The phrase used was "young woman" not "little girl" - it is Hera.
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Old March 25 2009, 12:39 PM   #598
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Re: Battlestar Galactica Series Finale: "Daybreak, Part II"

WeAreTheBorg wrote: View Post
Aragorn wrote: View Post
Lee can hook up with that lady doctor that appeared out of nowhere this season. Apparently she has a thing for men that look like Jamie Bamber.
She wasnt a doctor, she's a nurse/medic. She was the one who operated on Adama in Scattered and has been in the show ever since then.
Ha, yeah that would have been cool. Maybe we'll see that in the extended DVD version


btw, nice review from SFX magazine here
The series that smashed the SF rulebook so completely that even so-called highbrow critics stood up and took notice comes to an end, and does so with a dignity rarely associated with “last ever” episodes. While some will claim it’s too contrived, too neat and requires a few too many leaps of faith, this conclusion is exactly what Galactica deserved. It’s huge yet intimate, explosive yet thoughtful, and works as a kind of televisual catharsis, providing a massive release of positive emotion after four seasons of almost relentless doom and gloom.
It’s a testament to showrunner Ronald D Moore’s writing – and some of the finest acting you’ll see anywhere on telly – that so many disparate elements hang together. After weeks of money-saving ship-based episodes, the budget’s splurged on screen in a space battle so spectacular it competes with the liberation of New Caprica for edge-of-the-seat thrills. With the crippled Galactica clearly doomed, all bets are off on the survival front, meaning you’re never quite sure if one of your favourite characters is about to bite the big one. That so many of the principal cast make it to the end comparatively unscathed is something of a surprise.
But considering that what marked the show out early on was its non-stop action, the remarkable thing here is that it’s the character stuff that hits you hardest – a reminder, perhaps, of how much the programme has evolved. It takes a steely resolve to suppress a tear through the inevitable losses and poignant farewells (the unexpected standout is Roslin’s heartfelt goodbye to a Dr Cottle who reveals he does actually have feelings).
Even the Colonists’ arrival on our Earth avoids falling into the trap of cheesiness. Yes, the notion of abandoning technology in favour of an entirely clean slate 150,000 years in the past seems like an overly hippyish ideal (and maybe even Golgafrinchan), but in context it feels entirely right – these are people from a civilisation destroyed by machines, and logically this is their happy ending (or endings – this rivals Return Of The King for sheer quantity of closing scenes).
My one quibble is with the angels, demons or whatever the hell Head Six, Head Baltar and Kara are. I have no problem with the principle – the existence of some higher power in the Galactica universe has been clear since very early on – but Starbuck’s disappearance, and the Head couple’s arrival in present day Earth remove some much-needed ambiguity. Yet this hardly counts as jumping the shark or nuking the fridge, and I for one will be very sad to see the back of one of the best TV shows ever. It’s been one hell of a ride. We may never see anything quite like it again.
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Old March 25 2009, 01:05 PM   #599
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Re: Battlestar Galactica Series Finale: "Daybreak, Part II"

Ethros wrote: View Post
WeAreTheBorg wrote: View Post
Aragorn wrote: View Post
Lee can hook up with that lady doctor that appeared out of nowhere this season. Apparently she has a thing for men that look like Jamie Bamber.
She wasnt a doctor, she's a nurse/medic. She was the one who operated on Adama in Scattered and has been in the show ever since then.
Ha, yeah that would have been cool. Maybe we'll see that in the extended DVD version
Eh? Would have been? It happened. She's the exact same nurse that was in Season 2. She's the one that saved Adama's life after Boomer shot him.
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Old March 25 2009, 01:33 PM   #600
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Re: Battlestar Galactica Series Finale: "Daybreak, Part II"

^ I think Ethros was responding to Aragorn, about Lee hooking up with Ishay (the nurse portrayed by Bamber's wife).
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