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Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

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Old March 24 2009, 05:22 PM   #31
Sakrysta
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Re: Firefly - Joss Whedon

The main reason your search didn't bring up much is that the show ended in 2002 - seven years ago. And the movie came out in 2005 - four years ago. We talked it to DEATH back then - happily and with joyous abandon. In the years between the cancellation and the movie, there were dozens of threads at any given time on all manner of different Firefly-related subjects. We tracked the DVD sales of the show religiously. We had countdown threads to the movie's release date. We talked about the conventions we went to where Browncoats ruled the day and the cast of the show were treated as super-humans. We delighted in the reports of those lucky few Browncoats who managed to get into the movie as extras. We bought multiple copies of the DVDs to give to our friends and family. We participated in viral marketing campaigns trying to get the word out about the show and the movie. We produced and followed podcasts that were wildly popular solely on the basis of being Firefly-related. We scrambled and fought for those oh-so-elusive tickets to the early screenings of Serenity, then fought the urge to read spoilers from those who had managed to see it. And then we went to the movie ourselves - as many times as we could manage - trying desperately to send the message that THIS is the kind of movie we want to see.

I think now, even four years later, we're all tired. We Browncoats have all kinda turned into Mal in a way - we fought our battle valiantly, and in the end we lost. But we still have our ship, and we mean to just continue. No more heroic battles. No more desperate cries against the injustice of it all. It is what it is. We have our memories. It was a good run. But the passion has cooled, and we've moved on.

At least, that's how I feel about it.
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Old March 24 2009, 06:14 PM   #32
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Re: Firefly - Joss Whedon

It appears to me that since the show received so much interest in the forums back then and there are still weekly new guys that want to continue the discussion - it warrants a header thread, a place easily identifiable, its exclusive location on this site for the subject. I will not be the last guy to come and say hey let's discuss firefly, again. Fans are going to find this forum and want to revisit that subject. It needs its on header thread like BSG, Dr. Who, and Stargate in the promenade under the science fiction or somewhere. How much effort is that? The spirit is still alive.
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Old March 24 2009, 06:24 PM   #33
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Re: Firefly - Joss Whedon

Subforums are only allocated for high-volume subjects that produce a large number of threads. Firefly produces threads regularly, but usually not many at once anymore. Hence no subforum. (Besides, we still have to convince someone that Lost belongs under SF+F! One battle at a time! )

Feel free to start a thread on anything you want to discuss, though.
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Old March 24 2009, 06:27 PM   #34
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Re: Firefly - Joss Whedon

Sakrysta wrote: View Post
I think now, even four years later, we're all tired. We Browncoats have all kinda turned into Mal in a way - we fought our battle valiantly, and in the end we lost. But we still have our ship, and we mean to just continue. No more heroic battles. No more desperate cries against the injustice of it all. It is what it is. We have our memories. It was a good run. But the passion has cooled, and we've moved on.

At least, that's how I feel about it.
Gorram it! Well said, very shiny. That's exactly how I feel.
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Old March 24 2009, 06:41 PM   #35
C.E. Evans
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Re: Firefly - Joss Whedon

MNM wrote: View Post
rramarr wrote: View Post
Actually those (Enterprise and Andromeda) were much later cancellations but Babylon 5 and DS9 were cancaelled. Andromeda and Enterprise just didn't make it very long either. The only bright side was Farscape.
Andromeda got five seasons, that's hardly short.
Yeah, and IIRC Andromeda wasn't so much cancelled as it was a case of the heyday of first-run syndicated action shows coming to an end at the time. There were reportedly some behind the scenes problems with Tribune Entertainment too...

It actually makes me wonder how Firefly would have faired in first-run syndication (before the bubble burst) rather than on FOX...
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Old March 24 2009, 06:51 PM   #36
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Re: Firefly - Joss Whedon

Lindley wrote: View Post
Subforums are only allocated for high-volume subjects that produce a large number of threads. Firefly produces threads regularly, but usually not many at once anymore. Hence no subforum. (Besides, we still have to convince someone that Lost belongs under SF+F! One battle at a time! )

Feel free to start a thread on anything you want to discuss, though.
And perhaps most importantly, SG, BSG (up until this week) and Who are actually in production.
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Old March 24 2009, 07:37 PM   #37
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Re: Firefly - Joss Whedon

FordSVT wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
rramarr wrote: View Post
Man you guys are quick draw McCalls LOL

Its just odd to cancel something in the middle of the season and not greenlight all the shows then pull the plug for next season.

Do you think westernizing the space concept was a benefit or part of the demise?
I think it was brilliant. I'm not a westerns fan, but there's something very attractive about Whedon's approach with Firefly. I love it, and would have happily watched it much longer than it's single season.

J.
That's not what he asked. He asked if the approach helped it or hurt it's chances of success, not whether or not you liked it. I would argue it hurt it's chances.
I answered his question.
Whether you like it or not, my opinion counts toward whether the show was helped or hurt by the western themes.
Just because you don't like the show doesn't mean my answer isn't legitimate because I do. You assume too much.

I don't find it very productive to ask Firefly fans (or fans of anything) why the show (or whatever) was cancelled. To them, everything was perfect and it was all the network, exterior circumstances, etc. It's fine if people loved the show, I just don't think those are necessarily the people you want to ask about it's faults and the reasons why people didn't watch it.
I hated the show first time around. I watched two episodes and gave up on it. It was after I watched Serenity I chose to go back and look it over again.

Believe it or not, I know people who watched the entire series and don't like it, wouldn't watch it again. I know people who watched the first few episodes on TV and then never watched again. It wasn't because of scheduling, they knew nothing of behind the scenes politics, they simply didn't like the show, the characters, the themes, whatever. I'm one of these people, so shoot me.
Meh. That's your opinion, and that's fine.


J.
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Old March 24 2009, 10:57 PM   #38
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Re: Firefly - Joss Whedon

rramarr wrote: View Post
There is not many western type settings in a space exploration science fiction TV series. Why did Joss Whedon's "Firefly" end after only one season? Did anyone else like that show? I can't find a forum for this show. I thought it was a great change up from the neat starfleet concepts. It spawned the "Serenity" movie sequels so what happened to the TV series?
Um, despite your Lt.Jr.Grade status I feel compelled to say Welcome to the boards, welcome to the internet in general I suppose.

This is one of the few topics to be discussed more than Superman Returns outside of Trek specific forums.

Fox aired it out of order.
Fox aired it sporadically and it was preempted for the MLB worldseries a few times.
It was so different that the masses couldn't accept it or because of Fox's handling of it found it unimpressive and confusing.
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Old March 24 2009, 11:04 PM   #39
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Re: Firefly - Joss Whedon

FordSVT wrote: View Post
I don't find it very productive to ask Firefly fans (or fans of anything) why the show (or whatever) was cancelled. To them, everything was perfect and it was all the network, exterior circumstances, etc. It's fine if people loved the show, I just don't think those are necessarily the people you want to ask about it's faults and the reasons why people didn't watch it.

Believe it or not, I know people who watched the entire series and don't like it, wouldn't watch it again. I know people who watched the first few episodes on TV and then never watched again. It wasn't because of scheduling, they knew nothing of behind the scenes politics, they simply didn't like the show, the characters, the themes, whatever. I'm one of these people, so shoot me.
I simply cited FOX's scheduling decisions as a contributing reason to why it was canceled. It certainly didn't get as fair a shot to succeed as other shows.

That said, I fully accept that there are people out there who didn't like the show. However, I have introduced the show on DVD to at least a dozen people, and not a single one of them hasn't fallen in love with it. Half of these people aren't even scifi fans.
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Old March 25 2009, 01:59 AM   #40
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Re: Firefly - Joss Whedon

Sakrysta wrote: View Post
I think now, even four years later, we're all tired. We Browncoats have all kinda turned into Mal in a way - we fought our battle valiantly, and in the end we lost. But we still have our ship, and we mean to just continue. No more heroic battles. No more desperate cries against the injustice of it all. It is what it is. We have our memories. It was a good run. But the passion has cooled, and we've moved on.

At least, that's how I feel about it.
You keep on postin' like that, because it's a perfect little analogy to it all.

Beautiful!
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Old March 25 2009, 02:14 AM   #41
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Re: Firefly - Joss Whedon

J. Allen wrote: View Post
I hated the show first time around. I watched two episodes and gave up on it. It was after I watched Serenity I chose to go back and look it over again.
My own Firefly story...

My wife started watching it when it was first on Fox. She kept saying "You've got to watch this new show! It's amazing!" I stalled and resisted, I'm not even sure why. But she kept at it, and finally I tuned in. I can't remember what episode it was (maybe Shindig?).

Anyway, I watched about 5-10 minutes of it, and pretty much dismissed it. Cowboys? In Space? Speaking Chinese? No thanks. I figured my wife just liked it because it had one of her favortie soap opera stars in it. Soon it was cancelled, I felt vindicated, and thought no more of it.

But primarily due to the people on this board, I kept hearing how great it was, how they loved it so much, etc. Then the announcement that a movie was being made came, and everyone went bat-shit.

I figured, for one of the few times in my life, that maybe I was wrong, and I ought to give it another try. When Sci-Fi ran the marathon, I planted myself. I remember saying to my wife after it was over "What the hell was I watching the first time??!?! This is brilliant!" She likes to remind me of that one.



We bought the DVD's to get the unaired episodes, watched them all, and just loved them tremendously. We saw the movie several times, and hoped against hope that the box office numbers would take off. Alas it was not to be.

I'm okay with it all. If I could wave my magic wand I'd renew it in a second, but I don't feel angry or cheated or anything like that. I thought it was clever, moving, exciting, and different. But yes, finally, most of us Browncoats have moved on.
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Old March 25 2009, 02:36 AM   #42
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Re: Firefly - Joss Whedon

It was the widespread enthusiasm for the show on this forum during and shortly after its run that led me to buy the DVDs sight unseen. Thanks all.
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Old March 25 2009, 02:55 AM   #43
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Re: Firefly - Joss Whedon

What do you guys mean we browncoats have moved on? Star Trek fans helped cause the second wave that kept coming. Joss Whedon is still in his writing hey day. Why not keep the heat on while he has influential power to answer to it? It may not be firefly it can be browncoats or something related. Besides some of those actors have commitments that would make firefly impossible, but the concept can be revived. Do anyone know Whedon's thought's on continue the story line?
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Old March 25 2009, 03:05 AM   #44
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Re: Firefly - Joss Whedon

I shouldn't claim to speak for anyone else. I was just agreeing with the previous poster. Like the Battle of Serenity Valley, we fought the good fight and lost. I have accepted it.

If you want to reminisce, let's go for it. If you want to gather for another battle, I'm not interested in that.

JMHO
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Old March 25 2009, 03:50 AM   #45
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Re: Firefly - Joss Whedon

rramarr wrote: View Post
Its just odd to cancel something in the middle of the season and not greenlight all the shows then pull the plug for next season.

Do you think westernizing the space concept was a benefit or part of the demise?
You might be surprised how many shows have been canceled without airing all of their episodes; some have had as few as a single episode air, and because the ratings are considered unacceptable, not one more episode is ever aired nor seen. Firefly was actually lucky in that it got such an enthusiastic response from those who did like it that FOX Home Video (who apparently have a better head for business than the FOX network suits) delivered the entire series as intended, in order and including the unaired eps. I can't really address the wisdom of not at least getting the studio or network's value out of what they paid for by airing the remaining eps, since it often seems that what they fill the now-empty space with gets even lower ratings. And whether you want to consider it to FOX's "credit" or not, after they thoroughly sabotaged the show's ratings through pre-emptions for MLB, they then publically issued a mea culpa in the general language of, "We may have been a bit shortsighted in frequently pre-empting a new series, still trying to find its audience, and might have had better results had we thought of this beforehand. We'll try to keep that in mind in the future." Of course, the future was already too late for Firefly.

As to whether the Western elements may have had an effect: of course they did! If you had seen the discussions here, you'd have seen many sci-fi fans who just couldn't wrap their heads around "science fiction" that had horses instead of hovercraft (although one of the unaired eps did have a hovercraft ) and bullets instead of blasters. To many, sci-fi is synonymous with ray guns and robots and spandex and aliens, not a lived-in universe of human beings who, despite living on other planets and traveling twixt them in spaceships, look more like the Old West than Metropolis (Fritz Lang's, not Clark Kent's). Now, there are several very good arguments that such a situation is more rather than less likely under the circumstances of humanity's exodus from Earth, but they weren't explained in the course of the show - IMHO, to Joss's eternal credit, because it made the show feel more real if it wasn't bogged down by a bunch of characters explaining to each other the things they should take for granted. In much the same way that the original Star Trek series simply took its circumstances and technology for granted, unlike later series that explained everything with technobabble and pseudo-science in an effort to "seem" high-tech, but more accurately just seemed silly (and sillier as it went on).

And if the sci-fi fans couldn't wrap their minds around a concept that brought back the Old West on other worlds, then non-sci-fi viewers must've suffered a one-two punch: here was a Western show - already considered a 'dead' genre - but it had spaceships in it, too?? All the smart writing in the world isn't going to help when the viewer is suffering one of Sheldon Cooper's facial tic storms as he tries to figure that one out!

Still, it's better - IMHO, again - to have a thoughtful concept, with solid characters and well-crafted storytelling, that dies prematurely than to be given nothing but the same old sitcoms and reality shows, and no effort to ever reach people on a level that rises above their necklines.
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