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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Future of Trek

Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

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Old March 23 2009, 03:25 PM   #31
jefferiestubes8
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Location: New York City
Animated Series idea

How about using a videogame-engine for the rendering of 3-D CGI environments? Why? Once you build the various ships interiors and exteriors CGI models the actual animation would be done by motion capture data and rendered by a game console.
As a plus alien characters such as The Borg would be easily duplicated as the humanoids all mostly look alike. Lots of 'extras' in the background for production value...

What about the idea of selling a Trek videogame for PS3 and XBOX360 for $20. and then instead of game expansion packs you have 'scripted episodes' that are sold afterward for $5. as downloads and the in-game engine renders these WATCH-ONLY episodes?

If a Trek animated series could look like this:
http://pc.gamespy.com/dor/objects/74...105017521.html
43 screenshots that show off what level we are at of actual gameplay in 2009.
or this video of it:
'graphic and physics demo' of the environments
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV2AY...eature=related

It is not just a 3D CGI environment but now it is lighting effects and atmospheric effects (smoke, fog, haze, mist) that adds a lot of realism.
this video shows off the animation of characters in closeups at 36 seconds as well as slow motion action shots:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSZ2x...eature=related
A whole series could be created in a much cheaper way. The PS3 and XBOX360 doing the playback.
At the end of the 'season' of episodes a Blu-ray/DVD disc is sold with all of them.

I'm not talking about the upcoming 'Star Trek Online' videogame but a dedicated download scripted episode to playback.

The general model for 'Star Trek Online' videogame would be $30. for initial purchase and then a monthly subscription fee of around $15.
I'm proposing something much less costly for consumers. As a plus you would be able to explore the environments in great detail created by pausing the game and flying around like the above video 'graphic and physics demo' of the environments shows of the Alan Wake game.
Think about that. Being able to fly around the 'set' of a scripted episode for every scene and explore it. that has NEVER been available before for a scripted series.
The only close to it was a videogame sold where you could explore the Enterprise-D.
"TNG Interactive Technical Manual"
which lets you explore the major TNG sets via Quicktime VR (photos turned into 360 degree views)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XESSd28orc
but those were only photographs turning left and right. I'm talking about being able to explore the virtual sets used for these locations and scenes in 3D CGI in detail from any angle or height on those sets.

reuse the music from TNG, Voyager, and Enterprise episodes. It's good enough...

The other thing is if downloadable episodes were done they wouldn't have to adhere to a time constricted TV schedule for 13 or 22 episodes. Each 30-60 minute episode would be available say every 2 or 3 months. So in 1 years time you would have a 4 hour miniseries total that would be 'available on BluRay'/iTunes to watch all together. Maybe customers who purchased the episodes as a download would get 50% off the Blu-Ray or iTunes download later?

Last edited by jefferiestubes8; March 23 2009 at 04:27 PM.
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Old April 1 2009, 09:02 PM   #32
jefferiestubes8
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CGI Animated Series idea

jefferiestubes8 wrote: View Post
How about using a videogame-engine for the rendering of 3-D CGI environments? Why? Once you build the various ships interiors and exteriors CGI models the actual animation would be done by motion capture data and rendered by a game console.
Why stop with just the environments.
The physical modeling engines have gotten so good (Havok) that you can do various "takes" of CGI characters and the action will be different each time. That is actually how FX houses are doing CGI stunts. The pick the take they like the best for the CGI model's performance and then render it out.


and this video (length 6:31) show the behind-the-scenes of positioning the camera and locations along with the new technologies for action.
this video (length 4:47) shows a behind the scenes interview and gameplay with the project lead Haden Blackman on SW: The Force Unleashed (2008 game).
this video shows and discusses the Havok physics, Pixelux's Digital Molecular Matter (substance simulation for breaking objects), and NaturalMotion's Euphoria (behavorial A.I.) with a few examples and how much it does that an animator would have to do frame by frame.

Imagine if a Trek TV series could do action "takes" and then replay those takes but while moving the 3rd-person camera and having different lens focal lengths and depth of field and then edit them together just like an action scene shot with multiple cameras?
Once characters and locations are built this model CAN be used to create a scripted series. A series based on a ship like The Enterprise reuses many of the same locations over and over.
The animation is done IN REAL TIME using a Playstation 3 not over months by animators in a foreign country.
Not a little wireframe or shaded but no texture CGI animation, but complete HD-quality animation of action scenes.

Imagine physics modeling from simulation-based on a starship in which artificial gravity is lost (ala STVI:TUC)...
Or some planets that have lighter than earth gravity similar to the moon so the characters have a bounce to their step.
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Old April 2 2009, 03:15 PM   #33
Jeyl
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Re: New Animated Series

......I'm still more interested in 2D, but thanks for the explanations jefferiestubes8.
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Old April 10 2009, 04:23 PM   #34
jefferiestubes8
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Location: New York City
CGI series based on Peter David's 1984/1989 comic book series

What about a CGI animated series based on Peter David's comics series circa 1984/1989?
Star Trek (1984) #48-55, Annual #3
IMAGE IMAGE
LINK to all the others from that year's series.
some of the uniforms are circa StarTrek II feature film



also related:
Star Trek Web Comics on iPhone
IMAGE
Star Trek Archives: The Best of Peter David #1 is the first issue of the ongoing digital comics series that reprints some of the best comics from Star Trek's illustrious history.
Star Trek Archives #1 is available now in the iTunes App Store for 99 cents.
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Old April 14 2009, 06:34 PM   #35
jefferiestubes8
Commodore
 
Location: New York City
CGI Animated Series - visual style

If videogames game-engine-rendering and medium-grade CGI cutscenes bother picture quality bothers you as a motion picture storytelling medium Pixar's budgets are not possible with Trek.

Stories are possible with great science fiction visuals (not just space battles)

check out the production values at 1:59 of the plane crash.
Resident Evil: Degeneration Red Band (Movie Trailer)
You just can't do that with live-action on a weekly basis budget. The pilot for "Lost" did but that was a pilot and outdoors not using a whole airport wing. The weekly episodes for Knight Rider has 200-300 visual effects shots.
A Trek series would need more regardless of the actual content & timeline. Going all CGI would allow for this without any live-action shooting except motion capture.
A miniseries budget would not allow this either really.

Resident Evil: Degeneration MoCap 2 min. video
Actually these sets are kind of funny. I wonder if this type of idea would work for a TV series like Trek?
No time spent for lighting, makeup, camera repositioning, camera moves, wardrobe. It is all about rehearsal and performance motion capture. No hours in a makeup chair for Klingon, Talaxia, etc. characters.

If not Trek I wonder if someone like George Lucas, Robert Zemeckis, or James Cameron would use this?
(I know about the motion capture used in 'The Polar Express'...)


The other nice thing is a future episode in a series could use flashbacks but when the flashbacks are rendered they could be from totally different angles (as someone else's POV). It would still be the original motion capture performances, but possibly in slow motion or something.
That is not possible with live action filmmaking to go back and really slow down footage to more than 50% as it looks too stuttery.

mentioned here first:
http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...7&postcount=10
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Old April 15 2009, 03:18 AM   #36
Jeyl
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Re: New Animated Series

No jefferiestubes8. 2D! The 2D Erin is getting top votes on Esurance!
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Old April 15 2009, 05:34 PM   #37
Jeyl
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Re: New Animated Series

How about 2D characters in 3D environtments? Like the two seasons of Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex series. That'd be pretty cool.
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Old April 15 2009, 07:03 PM   #38
The Academic
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Re: New Animated Series

Jeyl wrote: View Post
How about 2D characters in 3D environtments? Like the two seasons of Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex series. That'd be pretty cool.
Appleseed Ex Machina-style would be cool, too... and anime treatments, in general, worked for The Matrix or The Chronicles of Riddick (well, at least among fans).
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Old April 26 2009, 03:17 AM   #39
shanejayell
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Re: New Animated Series

One idea I had was "Star Trek: Generations" a animated series covering ALL the Trel eras. Original Series, Lost Era, Next Gen, DS9, Voyager, and maybe even the literary series.
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Old April 27 2009, 03:10 AM   #40
jefferiestubes8
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Location: New York City
Animated Series idea spanning 300 years timeline

shanejayell wrote: View Post
One idea I had was "Star Trek: Generations" a animated series covering ALL the Trel eras.
Shanejayell how would a series work with that idea content-wise?

Would each week be a different group of characters or would some characters living in the same time period interact with each other?
Since Trek's timeline spans about 300 years (including Zefram Cochrane inventing the warp drive, in 2063 to the 24th century - Voyager & Deep Space Nine) how would your idea work without the audience being confused with so many characters?
Please explain in depth your idea or a few ways this would work.
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Old April 28 2009, 07:39 PM   #41
Anticitizen
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Re: New Animated Series

I'd be happy if they just re-animated the old animated series!
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Old April 30 2009, 11:16 PM   #42
jefferiestubes8
Commodore
 
Location: New York City
animation style - 'Star Trek: Aurora'

Jeyl wrote: View Post
How about 2D characters in 3D environtments?
Lighting really sells a 3D environment. Why not have the characters in 3D too?
Check out episode 3 of this fan production:
Star Trek: Aurora is an original animated movie set in the Star Trek universe.

fully CG-animated movie is set just after the original Star Trek series


Except for voice work–and not counting 3D models I have purchased or downloaded–Aurora has been produced by one person on a single Mac computer.

SOURCE


He uses
the OptiTrack ARENA motion capture system...it might not look that exciting, but that kind of movement would have taken forever to do by hand
I admit his ship design for the Aurora is bad. It looks like something out of Fisher Price. Just because he has nacelles and a deflector dish does not make it a Trek-like ship design.

If you look at the lighting on episode 3s characters you'll see it's move believeable than 2D traditional.
For one guy making all this it looks pretty good.
If a team did it on a budget it could look great.

Take a look at episode 2 around the 2:10 time. That kind of lighting just doesn't happen with 2D animation. They just don't do it.
Frank Miller's graphical novels are too stylized to be this type of 2D animation.
at 7:38 the lighting is really gorgeous. It is multisourced and different color temperatures. The character's skin is really rendered realistically.

Download the episodes here
free for image comparison.

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Old May 1 2009, 01:25 AM   #43
Red Ranger
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Re: New Animated Series

T'Cal wrote: View Post
When this topic comes up, I always think of successful animated series such as Batman and Gargoyles. These were well-wriiten shows that appealled to males of all ages. The marketing of B:TAS was excellent. There's no reason why a new ST:TAS couldn't be as successful. I would set it 15 years after NEM and include characters from all three 24th century shows. I would probably like 2D rather than CGI but I'm openminded on this. Strange aliens that are non-humanoid and flashbacks would be easily accomplished.
T'Cal:

I do like this idea, as it's kind of a reflection of how they're handling the relaunch novels. I do think you need to set it in one location. IMHO, Picard should still be captain of the Sovereign-class Enterprise, and have crew members from VOY and DSN.

On the other hand, if the new movie is successful, I can see a companion animated series with the young Kirk, Spock, and company, as they embark on the adventures that will form the basis of their legends.

Red Ranger
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Old May 1 2009, 01:26 AM   #44
urbandk
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Re: New Animated Series

A cartoon is the only way you'll ever see Data again, unless they pull some X-Men style anti-aging effects.
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Old May 1 2009, 09:38 PM   #45
ltcmmanderdata
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Re: New Animated Series

i love the old tos cartoon. i'd be all for any new star trek cartoons.
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