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Old March 13 2009, 07:14 PM   #136
TIN_MAN
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

^^ That's another thing, FJ included his version of the 3rd season "herbarium" in his secondary hull botany section on deck 18 (for which he must have had access to MJ's production sketches?). But the prior referances in TMoST were to the deck 8 facility. So he evidently did not make the connection between that 3rd season set and the deck 8 facility described?
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Old March 13 2009, 07:44 PM   #137
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

Evidently, or just decided there wasn't enough space and moved it.
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Old March 13 2009, 07:45 PM   #138
Captain Robert April
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

Let's tackle these one at a time...

Praetor wrote: View Post
A few thoughts:
1) Escape pod size. I vaguely remember you having a specific reason for making them so big (was it the discolored panels?) but I still think they're a bit too big.
Shaw's arguments on this matter have convinced me to dump the escape pods altogether. More room for cabins!

2) Power transfer line from impulse engine to power manifold - it seems more logical to have this follow a line parallel to the rear neck line, then bend downward, rather than the odd angles it seems to take.
The angle was mainly to accommodate the turboshaft, but I suppose that could be tweaked a bit.

3) Neck reinforcement - I remember you having trellis bracing on another version. Personally, I see a couple of structural beams as being enough.
Considering the stresses that section is subjected to, and the relative slimness, I figured more than a couple of I-beams were needed. then I decided to put the turbolift maintenance section in there, and also figured some sort of honeycomb structure embedded into the hull would also do nicely for reinforcement, so...

4) Deuterium tank - I would suggest removing the TNG-style tank and using two or three smaller 'pod' tanks that could hold similar volume. More a stylistic thing for me than anything else, as I think it highlights technological evolution from TOS to TNG.
I prefer to look at it as efficient use of an otherwise unusable space, and in a spaceship, every square centimeter has to have some justification. The slush tanks stay.

5) Engineering placement - I suggest switching them, and eliminating the green path from the matter/antimatter integrator running to the nacelle. Instead, have this flow into the manifold, and leave the red path that goes to the nacelle as-is. This would, IMO, simplify it greatly and also allow for an elevator/staging area behind the hangar deck evocative of what is shown in TMP and TFF.
Well, y'see, there's that dilithium doohickey in the middle of the room, and for the plasma to be of any use to the warp engines, it has to go through the dilithium crystals, which means under the floor. Remember, it's not just a matter of efficiency, it's a matter of lining up with what was on screen (which is why, under protest, I included small emergency back-up M/AM reactors in the nacelles, to account for the occasional oddball reference that indicate that the nacelles have antimatter inside).

6) Lower engineering - the one at the forward bottom of the secondary hull. I don't really think this is necessary. Storage might be better use of this space.
Maybe, but the contours of Engineering changed too much between the first and second seasons to chalk it up to a simple equipment upgrade. It's a whole different room. So, my solution is to really make it a different room, on the other side of the tube assembly, and chalk up the second version of the engine room to an equipment upgrade (who knows what that area was during the first season) and Main Engineering shifted from the forward area to the aft, with the forward room being kept as a backup, with its primary purpose now being monitoring the main fusion reactors.

7) Antimatter pods/antimatter generator/deuterium injector - I think it might be worthwhile to actually put the antimatter pods below the power manifold so they could eject together, and shift the other two forward so they line up with the other ports. The last small port could then become the tractor beam.
The power manifold is only dangerous so long as the main reactor is running. Dump the main reactor, the manifold is just a bunch of orange tubes. Besides, the fusion reactors also use that manifold, especially if the M/AM reactor is offline for whatever reason. In any case, the components of the antimatter generator setup are all arranged to line up with the markings on the underside of the hull, i.e., the antimatter pods have their own ejection port.

And "The Immunity Syndrome" established that the Enterprise has more than one tractor beam, when Kirk ordered Scotty to put "two tractor beams" on Spock's shuttlecraft. I see the ship as having various types of discreet emitters all over the ship, as opposed to one big honking tractor beam emitter with a fairly limited field of view.

I almost mentioned the sensor pod bay, but I think the setup you concocted works pretty well for something that I don't think was a part of the original design setup.
It does have the advantage of fitting the dialogue of "Court Martial" better than what they dreamed up for those remastered effects shot.
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Old March 13 2009, 08:39 PM   #139
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

Okay. I'm cool with your reasoning. Thanks.
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Old March 15 2009, 06:08 AM   #140
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

Perhaps s/he wants to know when the new set will be ready.
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Old March 15 2009, 11:01 PM   #141
Captain Robert April
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
At the moment, I'm leaning towards having "the bowling alley" being one of several programs available in that early holodeck we saw in TAS' "The Practical Joker". Solves a multitude of problems that way.
I was just reading through a thread over on John Byrne's site concerning his latest Star Trek mini for IDW and I came across this post of his regarding a question about, you guessed it, the bowling alley:

Posted by John Byrne:

Since Roddenberry (retconning, imho) claimed that the holodeck was part of
his original plans for the show, and only the limitations of technology
prevented him for showing it aboard the original Enterprise, I will
suggest that the "bowling alley", if there was one, would be located there,
so as not to waste space!

Riley's pause, in "The Naked Time", might even be used to argue for this.
He takes a beat to decide what form the location of his party will take!
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Old March 15 2009, 11:33 PM   #142
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

I think the bowling alley as part of the simulations is the bigger retcon but via his and your logic it makes sense. I'd just again argue that you depict this holodeck as more limited than its TNG counterpart.

Well done though.
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Old March 16 2009, 02:48 AM   #143
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

Well, I don't know about any holodeck on TOS Enterprise...
And I've never heard anything about the Great Bird wanting one there...
I think you're all non-bowlers... ya... that's my theory... un-huhn...
you're all rabid anti-bowl-ites...
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Old March 16 2009, 03:19 AM   #144
Captain Robert April
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

Check out the animated series episode "The Practical Joker".
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Old March 22 2009, 06:18 AM   #145
Captain Robert April
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

Bump.
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Old March 22 2009, 02:48 PM   #146
ST-One
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
Bump.
If you feel the need to bump this, some actual content would be nice.
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Old March 22 2009, 06:05 PM   #147
Captain Robert April
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

Like you give a rat's ass?

Or more to the point, like I give a rat's ass what you think?

At the moment, I'm just trying to keep this thing within easy reach, so that when Shaw gets to a certain point, which he's getting within sight of, I won't have to go digging back into the archives to drag this sucker back into the light.

Last edited by Captain Robert April; March 22 2009 at 06:19 PM.
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Old March 22 2009, 06:32 PM   #148
Ryan Thomas Riddle
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

^Why would you need Shaw to get to a certain point? Can you not do any work on your own?
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Old March 22 2009, 08:30 PM   #149
Shaw
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

middyseafort wrote: View Post
^Why would you need Shaw to get to a certain point? Can you not do any work on your own?
I thought that he had already done quite a bit... on my system I have a folder for blueprints of the TOS Enterprise, within that folder I have folders for different people's work (that I use for ideas and inspiration), which includes the following...
Adams
April
aridas sofia
Broad/Kerr
Casimiro
Chamberlain
Everheart
Jefferies
Joseph
Mandel/Drexler
MGagen
Rolfes
Sasser
Sinclair
I'm sure that there are more people who have done great work, but those people are who's work I've currently collected in my research... and April (and his work) is on that list.

As I recall a lot of his preliminary work was lost with his original computer, but I'm sure his ideas are alive and well.
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Old March 23 2009, 06:25 AM   #150
ST-One
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
Like you give a rat's ass?

Or more to the point, like I give a rat's ass what you think?

At the moment, I'm just trying to keep this thing within easy reach, so that when Shaw gets to a certain point, which he's getting within sight of, I won't have to go digging back into the archives to drag this sucker back into the light.
Whether you believe it or not, I actually enjoy reading such threads from time to time and it is more than disappointing to see such a thread bumped for no reason whatsoever.
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